Search found 2027 matches
- Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:23 pm
- Forum: Conlangery & Conworlds
- Topic: Sound Change Quickie Thread
- Replies: 2827
- Views: 618938
Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
You could make them voiceless nasals.
- Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:42 pm
- Forum: Languages & Linguistics
- Topic: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
- Replies: 2225
- Views: 452426
Re: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
I meant that more as in since the "plain velars" would have to have been further back than velar, there's no room for the "pre-laryngeal" uvular stops as well.
- Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:08 am
- Forum: Languages & Linguistics
- Topic: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
- Replies: 2225
- Views: 452426
Re: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
Taking the laryngeals as former uvular stops, while ingenious, only works in a two-tectal model, which at present I don't accept. The so-called evidence against a series of plain velars is IMO unconvincing, as AFAICT it amounts to "well the other two series neutralise to plain velars in a few places...
- Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:09 pm
- Forum: Languages & Linguistics
- Topic: Nostratic, Eurasiatic, Mitian, ...
- Replies: 217
- Views: 80064
Re: Nostratic, Eurasiatic, Mitian, ...
I think these are the wrong way round.Soap wrote:the bottom four having 0% occurrence in the Nigerian population and 100% in the Swedish.
- Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:30 am
- Forum: None of the above
- Topic: Confusing headlines and other trips down the garden path
- Replies: 1058
- Views: 223662
Re: Confusing headlines and other trips down the garden path
[shooting dead] [black man] vs. [shooting] [dead black man]
- Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:59 pm
- Forum: Languages & Linguistics
- Topic: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
- Replies: 2225
- Views: 452426
Re: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
It just occurred to me that it's relevant that there is another language with a "triple-reflex"... Latin. Specifically, in the environment *HN̥C- > *e/a/oNC- (cf. endo, indo "in, on, to" < *h₁n̥do, ambi "around" < *h₂n̥tbʰi, unguis "finger-nail, claw" < *h₃n̥gʰu-). Except this sound change happened ...
- Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:17 pm
- Forum: Languages & Linguistics
- Topic: Nostratic, Eurasiatic, Mitian, ...
- Replies: 217
- Views: 80064
Re: Nostratic, Eurasiatic, Mitian, ...
Another issue with macro-families is that they tell us nothing about the internal branching, which is always far more informative. Sure, it's reasonable that all these languages are related, but in what way?
- Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:09 pm
- Forum: Languages & Linguistics
- Topic: Nostratic, Eurasiatic, Mitian, ...
- Replies: 217
- Views: 80064
Re: Nostratic, Eurasiatic, Mitian, ...
I thought this doesn't prove anything about language.Salmoneus wrote:This is clear from population genetics
- Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:55 am
- Forum: Languages & Linguistics
- Topic: Nostratic, Eurasiatic, Mitian, ...
- Replies: 217
- Views: 80064
Re: Nostratic, Eurasiatic, Mitian, ...
I'm very definitely not a lumper. My opinion on Indo-Uralic is that it's intriguing, worth investigating, but probably won't amount to anything provable.
- Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:18 pm
- Forum: Languages & Linguistics
- Topic: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
- Replies: 2225
- Views: 452426
Re: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
It may well be parsimonious, but imo parsimony isn't a good enough reason to reject other scenarios, especially when there's other evidence to consider, such as the (imo conclusive) argument that *h₃ cannot have been rounded. Yes, the laryngeals are absolutely misreconstructed in many cases. For exa...
- Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:38 am
- Forum: Languages & Linguistics
- Topic: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
- Replies: 2225
- Views: 452426
Re: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
in Lycian, *h2 is reflected by a stop, "variously spelled k , q , and χ " Kloekhorst shows that Lycian q < *h₂w, not *h₂. It's instructive that *h₂ when lenited gives g , which is a fricative (according to Kloekhorst , underlyingly voiceless but voiced intervocalically), so it seems likely that the...
- Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:42 am
- Forum: Languages & Linguistics
- Topic: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
- Replies: 2225
- Views: 452426
Re: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
Improbable, as *æ also comes from post-PIE *ē of any origin. u-umlaut in Tocharian proves nothing, since u-umlaut can easily induce labialisation. The mutual rounding in *ā...æ is interesting, but probably not significant.Nortaneous wrote:an earlier rounded value for *æ
- Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:21 pm
- Forum: Languages & Linguistics
- Topic: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
- Replies: 2225
- Views: 452426
Re: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
Still, a POA shift from velar to somewhere further back is possible on the way from PIE2 to PIE3. Certainly - imo merger into [h] is the final step, but it could take almost any route on the way. I see. So the vowel colouring effects of the laryngeals are pre-Anatolian. Well, the vowels don't behav...
- Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:43 pm
- Forum: Languages & Linguistics
- Topic: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
- Replies: 2225
- Views: 452426
Re: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
Then again, the Hittite evidence only applies to 2, doesn't it? [the laryngeals don't have to form a natural set!]. Nope! ḫāraš, -an- "eagle" < *h₃éron- This would also allow the 'laryngeals' and the voiced (i.e. ejective) stops to share a quality, explaining lengthening in Latin and Balto-Slavic, ...
- Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:36 pm
- Forum: Languages & Linguistics
- Topic: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
- Replies: 2225
- Views: 452426
Re: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
Regarding PIE: is there actually any reason why people assume that "laryngeals" must be dorsal fricatives of any sort, let alone why they need to "fill the gaps" to match the stop series? I've just been looking again at a romlang idea, and at actual romance languages. And they have lots of elements...
- Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:39 pm
- Forum: Languages & Linguistics
- Topic: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
- Replies: 2225
- Views: 452426
Re: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
But isn't the only "evidence" for a rounded *h₃ the roundedness of *o? If you accept that *o need not even have been rounded at the time of laryngeal colouring, continuing to insist on a rounded *h₃ is nonsensical without new evidence, which I note you haven't offered. I agree about *h₁ (though IMO ...
- Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:28 pm
- Forum: Languages & Linguistics
- Topic: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlearn
- Replies: 669
- Views: 151821
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
Ah, I didn't know it was one he uses with his dad.
- Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:29 pm
- Forum: Languages & Linguistics
- Topic: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
- Replies: 2225
- Views: 452426
Re: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
I'll admit that *h₂ʷ lacks any real corroboration, but it's also not an integral part of my theory. It was more just a "huh, there's a hole here, what if *h₂w were originally *h₂ʷ to fill it" (full disclosure, I first saw this idea elsewhere, though I don't recall off the top of my head who it was -...
- Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:26 pm
- Forum: Languages & Linguistics
- Topic: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlearn
- Replies: 669
- Views: 151821
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
Vijay wrote:Me (in Mountain Lion)
- Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:23 pm
- Forum: Languages & Linguistics
- Topic: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
- Replies: 2225
- Views: 452426
Re: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
English has lost /x/ and preserved /h/ Imo this isn't a good parallel. [x] (not /x/) was a mere allophone of /h/ in coda position (after back vowels), whereas your putative laryngeals would have been contrastive in all positions. That [x] only existed in the coda makes its loss, against the retenti...
- Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:50 pm
- Forum: Languages & Linguistics
- Topic: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
- Replies: 2225
- Views: 452426
Re: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
PIE2 *xʲ > PIE3 *ʕʲ = *h1, Hittite zero PIE2 *x > PIE3 *ʕ = *h2, Hittite zero PIE2 *xʷ > PIE3 *ʕʷ = *h3, Hittite zero PIE2 *h > PIE3 *ʕ = *h2, Hittite h PIE2 *hʷ > PIE3 *ʕʷ = *h3, Hittite h I find it implausible that Anatolian *ḫ, which was clearly a velar/uvular fricative, should reflect glottal f...
- Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:04 pm
- Forum: Languages & Linguistics
- Topic: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
- Replies: 2225
- Views: 452426
Re: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
But that just begs the question of where the three stop series came from. Ablaut's easy to see as an innovation, given how closely tied to the accent it must have originally been, but the stops are less so.
- Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:08 am
- Forum: Languages & Linguistics
- Topic: Voynich manuscript
- Replies: 40
- Views: 19843
Re: Voynich manuscript
Interesting. I wonder if other scholars will pick up on this, and it turns out to be correct. That'd be really cool.
- Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:54 pm
- Forum: Languages & Linguistics
- Topic: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
- Replies: 2225
- Views: 452426
Re: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
Right, although more specifically a zero-grade suffix. De Vaan thinks the f- is due to influence from some semantically related word with f-, but not having a reasonably complete lexicon for Oscan makes it hard to know what.
- Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:21 pm
- Forum: Languages & Linguistics
- Topic: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
- Replies: 2225
- Views: 452426
Re: The Great Proto-Indo-European Thread
Not so! Old Latin attests dingua with an initial that can only reflect *d. The l- is adopted from lingere "to lick", and it's similar for the other words seemingly showing *l- (Lith. liežuvìs ~ liẽžti, Arm. lezow ~ lizanem).Howl wrote:And the d in dn̥ǵʰu 'tongue' is only attested in Germanic.