Thanks,
Ghost
![Confused :?](./images/smilies/icon_confused.gif)
But that was a natlang example, so it looks like real languages don't follow the rules either. In which case, why are they rules?Mercator wrote:Usually it's front vs back, round vs unround, or high vs low. But average people are not linguists, and they dont often follow the rules. For example, notice that /i/ is in both groups.
But the rules are being followed. It's just that "i" is in both groups.Ahribar wrote:But that was a natlang example, so it looks like real languages don't follow the rules either. In which case, why are they rules?Mercator wrote:Usually it's front vs back, round vs unround, or high vs low. But average people are not linguists, and they dont often follow the rules. For example, notice that /i/ is in both groups.
Very minor semantic quibble: I think you mean "... does not have to affect"; otherwise my Igbo example is invalidgach wrote:Vowel harmony must not affect all the vowel phonemes.
Ah, but that is an error. The example was from Turkish and in the * group the i was supposed to be with out the dot, which means .Mercator wrote:Usually it's front vs back, round vs unround, or high vs low. But average people are not linguists, and they dont often follow the rules. For example, notice that /i/ is in both groups.
The other one mentioned so far that's not in your list is rounded/unrounded. Does anyone know any natlang examples of this?geoff wrote:I think it might be interesting and useful to gather together several types of vowel harmony, with examples. E.g. tense/lax, as in Igbo; front/back, as in Finnish; high/low, as in I don't know what; and any others I may have missed.
Ahribar wrote:The other one mentioned so far that's not in your list is rounded/unrounded. Does anyone know any natlang examples of this?geoff wrote:I think it might be interesting and useful to gather together several types of vowel harmony, with examples. E.g. tense/lax, as in Igbo; front/back, as in Finnish; high/low, as in I don't know what; and any others I may have missed.
*For all you Turkish speakers, I'm using <sh> for s-cedilla and <?> for dotless i... damn Unicode won't work again.in another thread, I wrote:Turkish has some rounding harmony in addition to front/back harmony:
The possessive form of 'eshek' is 'eshekin', but for 's?z' it's 's?z?n'.
Similarly, 'ac?' > 'ac?n?n' but 'kol' > 'kolun' (<?> is /1/).
Kyrgyz, another of the Turkic languages (like Turkish), makes extensive use of both high/low and rounded/unrounded harmony.Ahribar wrote:The other one mentioned so far that's not in your list is rounded/unrounded. Does anyone know any natlang examples of this?geoff wrote:I think it might be interesting and useful to gather together several types of vowel harmony, with examples. E.g. tense/lax, as in Igbo; front/back, as in Finnish; high/low, as in I don't know what; and any others I may have missed.
I looked over your phonology..daan wrote:Hmm. I only know about Hungarian and Finnish harmony, which is essentially front-back.
For my conlang, of which the grammar can be found here, I use a system in which there exists a distinction between back, middle and front, with one vowel having three versions, one having a back and a middle/front version and one with a back/middle and front version. The rest remains always the same. Would such a system be plausible?
This isn't a direct answer, but...doctrellor wrote:In natlangs...
do they use 2 style harmony:.. High v Low or Front v Back
or
4 Part: High, Low, Front, Back
As a rule, each affix will have multiple forms, depending on the form of the root it follows.Eddy the Great wrote:That certainly puts some strict limits on the possible affixes.