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zompist bboard • View topic - Double Negation

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:21 am 
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 1:34 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Double Negation
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:35 am 
Niš
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:20 am 
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Polish is more weird; we've got sometimes triple negation or quadruple etc.
Example? OK:
Nikt nigdzie nikogo nigdy nie widział (literally: noone nowhere noone never no saw :))
It means that we can negate 5 times (but Poles are clever, we can do more!)


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:14 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:16 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:10 am 
Niš
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:01 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:24 am 
Niš
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IMHO, this concerns the tension between efficiency and redundancy. As for Czech (as well as other languages), there's a gender+number+case agreement in whole clauses or phrases:

Vide^l jsem hezkou mladou holku

I saw a nice+{fem.acc.sg.} young+{fem.acc.sg.} girl+{fem.acc.sg.}

The redundancy/efficiency dichotomy is, to some extent, an argument for dis/ambiguity.

I don't think there's much difference between Enlish and Czech in this respect, which can be shown by means of simple algebraic operation:

If A, B and C are negatable expressions, if -1 is the negation, and if * is multiplication, then, in general, we can observe the following pattern:

S1 (Czech): (-1) * A + (-1) * B + (-1) * C
S2 (English): (-1) * (A + B + C)

By simple maths: S1 = S2

Hence, as can be seen, the meaning is clearly the same. However, what if the language needed to express the following?

E.g.:

(-1) * A + B + C
A + (-1) * B + C
A + B + (-1) * C
(-1) * A + (-1) * B + C
(-1) * A + B + (-1) * C
A + (-1) * B + (-1) * C

Each would lead to grammatical, but nonsensical sentences in Czech, but what about other languages?

Best,

Petusek


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:28 pm 
Avisaru
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:21 pm 
Sanci
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Icelandic has a kind of double negative.

Ég veit ekki neitt - "I don't know nothing".

Swedish has no double negatives, neither in formal or vernicular langage. It is possible to form negative sentences in different ways, using different kinds of negatives:

Jag såg ingen.

"I saw nobody"

Jag såg inte någon.

"I didn't see anyody"

However, it would be very strange to combine the two negatives:

*Jag såg inte ingen. - I didn't see nobody.

Double negatives ar every common among the worlds languages, according to WALS:

http://wals.info/feature/115

Whether it is liked by prescriptivists or not a matter more of historical circumstances, than of logic.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:00 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:30 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 6:41 am 
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< Cev> My people we use cars. I come from a very proud car culture-- every part of the car is used, nothing goes to waste. When my people first saw the car, generations ago, we called it šuŋka wakaŋ-- meaning "automated mobile".


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:22 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:18 pm 
Lebom
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Emphasis seems like a likely candidate in English:

I ain't got any vs. I ain't got none

Although stress could also do the trick I think.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:07 am 
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