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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 3:25 pm 
Eddy the Great wrote:
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The Iroquois languages also have verb compounding, with restictions.


That's interesting. Do you have some examples?


Examples would be unenlightening, since you know nothing of the languages. The basic idea is that you can combine roots as long as the proniminal prefix(es) apply equally to all of them; kind of like a serial verb construction.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 5:06 pm 
Lebom
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jburke wrote:
Eddy the Great wrote:
Quote:
The Iroquois languages also have verb compounding, with restictions.


That's interesting. Do you have some examples?


Examples would be unenlightening, since you know nothing of the languages. The basic idea is that you can combine roots as long as the proniminal prefix(es) apply equally to all of them; kind of like a serial verb construction.


So you could compound like to get an equivalent of "He made and destroyed it", but not "He made it and destroyed me"?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 10:37 pm 
Smeric
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What salient behavioral differences do cecropia moths and luna moths have? I'm asking as an example of my problem. I can't come up with words based on behavior or feeling for so many animals and it's even harder for plant. Then you get to rocks which can't be refered to with verbs.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 10:47 pm 
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I'm guessing that when it comes to naming species and things like that, even the most verbal of languages have to use meaningless words at some point. "Cecropia" and "Luna" don't mean anything to us English speakers, so why not nonsense words for your language too? (Or loanwords, or something.)


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 11:00 pm 
Smeric
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Like a word meaning "to be a luna moth"? Does JBurke have any comments on this?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 4:04 am 
Smeric
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Eddy the Great wrote:
Like a word meaning "to be a luna moth"? Does JBurke have any comments on this?

Eddy, I do believe that Jeff is ignoring you.

To answer your question, the word should be something like
<flap-soft-(v)>. With a possible few extra determiners to indicate that you mean a Luna moth, and not a Hummingbird or Monarch.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 8:50 am 
Drydic_guy wrote:
Eddy the Great wrote:
Like a word meaning "to be a luna moth"? Does JBurke have any comments on this?

Eddy, I do believe that Jeff is ignoring you.


Not per se. I don't have the time to answer every question or read every thread; so I don't. I mostly hang around the Languages & Linguistics area, or None of the Above. I haven't found any conlangs/mythologies/etc. posted of late that are particularly interesting, so I don't visit this area as often.

To address your question: if there really is no difference at all between two insects, two animals, etc., then there won't be separate names for them. They'll be called by the same name. Naming goes by how they act, what they do; e.g., Halkomelem distinguishes the sandhill crane from the blue heron by the fact that the former flies with its neck outstretched, while the latter folds its neck in flight. But visually they look very much alike.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 12:48 pm 
Smeric
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Quote:
To address your question: if there really is no difference at all between two insects, two animals, etc., then there won't be separate names for them. They'll be called by the same name. Naming goes by how they act, what they do; e.g., Halkomelem distinguishes the sandhill crane from the blue heron by the fact that the former flies with its neck outstretched, while the latter folds its neck in flight. But visually they look very much alike.


I see. What about rock types? In your PDF, you had a word for alabaster.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 3:05 pm 
MODERATOR EDIT: this post is by jsburke

Eddy the Great wrote:
Quote:
To address your question: if there really is no difference at all between two insects, two animals, etc., then there won't be separate names for them. They'll be called by the same name. Naming goes by how they act, what they do; e.g., Halkomelem distinguishes the sandhill crane from the blue heron by the fact that the former flies with its neck outstretched, while the latter folds its neck in flight. But visually they look very much alike.


I see. What about rock types? In your PDF, you had a word for alabaster.


Named for their textures, their uses, etc. And now and then for color. What something _does_ is more important than what it _is_; and a quality like hardness or smoothness, often called a "stative" by grammarians, is actually a process.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:13 pm 
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I like the word for mosquito translating as something like wind-with-slight-pain. I'm currently thinking about a good word for headache. I was thinking of something related to the feeling of the head being compressed. I'm really not sure I need a word meaning headache in some way, though. I was thinking of saying something to the effect to "Something squeezes my head" since that's exactly what it feels like to me, at least.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:33 pm 
Eddy the Great wrote:
I like the word for mosquito translating as something like wind-with-slight-pain. I'm currently thinking about a good word for headache. I was thinking of something related to the feeling of the head being compressed. I'm really not sure I need a word meaning headache in some way, though. I was thinking of saying something to the effect to "Something squeezes my head" since that's exactly what it feels like to me, at least.


Nahaama?ta name?ko 'I hurt in my head' = I have a headache in Cheyenne.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:38 pm 
Smeric
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Nahaama?ta name?ko 'I hurt in my head' = I have a headache in Cheyenne.


Can you show me what the morphemes mean and where one begins and ends the way I often do?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:44 pm 
Eddy the Great wrote:
Quote:
Nahaama?ta name?ko 'I hurt in my head' = I have a headache in Cheyenne.


Can you show me what the morphemes mean and where one begins and ends the way I often do?


Na=1st person subject
haama?=root for 'bad' (this root is often used for referring to bad mental or physical states)
ta =final

na=1st person possessive (should have a high pitch accent on it)
me?=head
ko=in/to


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:02 pm 
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I haven't got a lot of experience with Polysynthetic languages, but I've always loved their way of expressing things, so I think I'd venture a few thought on this.

Perhaps you could distinguish headaches, if subtlely. Perhaps have several words (operative term) with distinctions in meaning:
I-think-with-pain
I-dream-with-pain
Dream-with-needles
Think-with-needles
Although those suggest personal crisis more than a mere headache.

Maybe:
I-am-in-my-head-with-pain
Head-with-many-weights
Those are perhaps more appropros. But I don't know your language well enough to judge.

I'll probably fiture something like this out myself some day, I doubt I'll resist the urge to tinker with polysyntheticism long, but long enough to enough that I don't try to conlang out of my depth.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:20 pm 
Smeric
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What kind of headaches would they represent? I don't seem to get many different types of headaches.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:53 pm 
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well, we have the sharp pain of a sinus headache, the infamous migrane, headache from hitting head, stress headaches, etc
all of these also have severity levels. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 11:21 am 
Smeric
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How do names work in say, Mohawk? I know they are also verbs, but do they take some sort of change because they're names or something?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 1:19 pm 
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Eddy the Great wrote:
How do names work in say, Mohawk? I know they are also verbs, but do they take some sort of change because they're names or something?


I don't believe so. If you recall, there was a thread last month discussing this topic
(you were part of it too, Eddy), and Jeff wrote the following:

jburke wrote:
The difference between the traditions is that European names tend to be enetities unto themselves, whereas Indian names are usually just ordinary words in the tribal language. Indian names also tend to directly describe the person, or attribute something to him directly.


p@,
Glenn


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 7:49 pm 
Smeric
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What do you think would be a good way to express these words with verbal phrases?

cat
dog
chair
road
fan/air conditioner
car/truck(should there be separate words?)

A few ideas wouldn't hurt.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 7:54 pm 
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Eddy the Great wrote:
What do you think would be a good way to express these words with verbal phrases?

cat
dog
chair
road
fan/air conditioner
car/truck(should there be separate words?)

A few ideas wouldn't hurt.


cat = disturbs-one-just-before-sleep-comes


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 8:37 pm 
Smeric
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How would you name cities? They don't do anything.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 8:38 pm 
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I name them by

a) use
b) geography
c) randomness :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 8:43 pm 
Lebom
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Eddy the Great wrote:
What do you think would be a good way to express these words with verbal phrases?

cat
dog
chair
road
fan/air conditioner
car/truck(should there be separate words?)

A few ideas wouldn't hurt.


Dog: it-habitually-bites-arms-off

Chair: it-breaks-when-one-sits-on-it

Road: it-goes-ever-on-and-on

Car/truck: it-habitually-runs-people-over

...on second thought, maybe not. :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 9:33 pm 
Avisaru
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Jaaaaaa wrote:
Road: it-goes-ever-on-and-on


Ah, yes...

Quote:
The Road goes ever on and on,
Down from the door where it began...


The possibilities are endless; Jeff previously mentioned that the Cheyenne for "car" translates as "it-burns-as-it-goes-along-thing", and one Athapaskan language translates "typewriter" roughly as "you-write-it-and-they-throw-it-away", after the early typing practice exercises.

Cat: "hunts-small-squeaking-things"; "rumbles" (purring); "sees-the-sun-and-moon" (because of the way the pupils of their eyes adjust to the light); or my favorite, "walks-by-itself". :mrgreen:

City names might be formed after historical events ("they-fought-nine-nights"), or, more likely, geographic descritions; I've already mentioned that there is a small town here in Ohio named Roaming Shores (presumably after a shifting river bed).

p@,
Glenn


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 11:29 pm 
Quote:
("they-fought-nine-nights")


I've named some battles like this; but I prefer names with a little more umph. E.g., the name I translate as Starlit War literally means '(the)-stars-light-our(exc.)-battles'.


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