[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4752: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4754: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4755: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4756: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
zompist bboard • View topic - The Correspondence Library

zompist bboard

THIS IS AN ARCHIVE ONLY - see Ephemera
It is currently Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:50 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 569 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 ... 23  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:32 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:39 pm
Posts: 859
Location: The Eastern Establishment


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:46 pm 
Lebom
Lebom
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:48 pm
Posts: 142


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:12 am 
Smeric
Smeric

Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2002 2:49 am
Posts: 2316
Location: Bonn, Germany


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:34 am 
Lebom
Lebom
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2002 3:17 am
Posts: 179
Location: the darkest depths of the bone-chilling night
Does anyone have anything relating to Yiddish? Proto-Germanic to Yiddish would be ideal, obviously, but even Middle High German as a starting point would be fine.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 10:58 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:39 pm
Posts: 859
Location: The Eastern Establishment


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 12:27 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:33 am
Posts: 396
Location: Wizard Tower


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 1:28 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:39 pm
Posts: 859
Location: The Eastern Establishment


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 6:43 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:39 pm
Posts: 859
Location: The Eastern Establishment
Here's a list of changes from PIE to Proto-Celtic, lifted from Ranka Matasović's Etymological Dictionary of Proto-Celtic.

PIE>Proto-Celtic

H is the laryngeals; S is any plosive; T is any voiceless plosive; R= a resonant; L=[r l]
PIE dialectal changes
1. h1e>e, h2e>a, h3e>o
2. eh1>ē, eh2>ā, eh3>ō
3. CHC> CaC unless #_
4. SS>ss
5. CRHC>CRaHC
6. VHC>VC in pretonic syllables
7. #RHC>RaC
8. Merger of PIE palatovelars and plain velars
Early PCeltic changes
9. gw>b
10. Ch>C
11. CLS>CLiS
12. eRa>aRa, except eRā did not change the e. The e was often restored by analogy.
13. CRC> CaRC
14. H>0, if not in a syllabic position
15. p…kw> kw…kw
16. ē>ī
17. ō>ū in final syllables
18. V:RC>VRC
19. CC>xC, if the second stop was a plosive or s.
20. pL> bL
Late PCeltic Changes
21. pN>wN, but only after back vowels.
22. p>f
23. ō>ā
24. ey>ē
25. ew>ow
26. uw>ow/_C

I did not include the sporadic changes and changes which might not have happened, which are listed in the book; I'll put 'em here if y'all want.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 1:37 am 
Smeric
Smeric

Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2002 2:49 am
Posts: 2316
Location: Bonn, Germany


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 5:04 pm 
Niš
Niš

Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:48 am
Posts: 3
Location: Arizona, USA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:02 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:21 pm
Posts: 894
Location: Ohio


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:55 am 
Lebom
Lebom
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:09 pm
Posts: 87
Location: Merseyside, England, UK
Here's some of the most important Old English > Modern English sound changes. I've got most of this information from various Wikipedia articles, so it may be a little unreliable or incomplete.

C = consonant
V = vowel

iy > y
(/iy/ is the phoneme represented by <ie>)
Vː > V / _CC or any larger cluster
V > Vː / _{ld, mb, nd, rd} (sporadically)
eo, eːo, æɑ, æːɑ > ø, øː, æ, æː
(/æɑ/ is the phoneme represented by <ea>)
y, yː, ø, øː > i, iː, e, eː (except in the southwest)
æː, ɑː > ɛː, ɔː (but /ɑː/ > /aː/ in northern dialects)
æ, ɑ > a
e, o > ɛ, ɔ
u, ɛ, ɔ, a > ə / unstressed (but /i/ remains, I think)
ɣ > w / _V[+back]
ɣ > j / _V[+front]
x, ɣ > w / C_
(for those last three changes, I am guessing at the conditions)
ij, uw, iːj, uːw > iː, uː, iː, uː
Vj, Vːj, Vw, Vːw > Vi, Vi, Vu, Vu (i.e. vowels followed by /j w/ become diphthongs, where there is no length contrast)
ou > ɔu
w > ɔu / C_#
i, u > eː, oː / open syllables, sporadically
ɛ, ɔ, a > ɛː, ɔː, aː / open syllables
Vː > V / stressed and two syllables follow
ix, iːx, eːx, ɛx, ɛːx > iːx, iːx, eix, ɛix, ɛix
ux, uːx, oːx, ɔx, ɔːx, ax, aːx > uːx, uːx, oux, ɔux, ɔux, aux, aux
ei, ou, eu, oi > iː, uː, iu, ui
ai > ɛi
hl, hr, hn > l, r, n
w > Ø / C_V[-front] (including /ə/; c.f. <answer> and older pronunciations of <backwards>, <always>)
mb > m
ə > Ø / _[-stressed]#
j > Ø / _i
ɔ, a > ɔu, au / _lC[+alveolar], _nC (the diphthongisation before nC doesn't seem to be reflected in modern accents, though)
ɔl, al > ɔu, au / _m, _k
y > iu (this was found in French loanwords)
uːx, ɔux, aux > uf, ɔf, af (sporadically)
x > Ø
iː > i / _[-stressed]# (in the ending OE -ig at least)
C[+geminate] > C
iː, uː > ai, au (with intermediate stages like əi, əu; /uː/ does not diphthongise after /j w/ or before labials)
eː, oː > iː, uː (often resisted before /r/)
ɛː, ɔː > eː, oː
aː > ɛː (resisted in 'father' for some reason)
wr > r
gn, kn > n / #_
ɛu, au > iu, ɔː (but /au/ > /aː/ before /m/, in <palm> etc.)
ɛ, ɛː > ɪ / unstressed (but > /ə/ in my dialect, at least)
eː, ɛː > iː, eː
eː, uː > ɛ, u (sporadically, some before the next change like 'blood', some after it)
i, u > ɪ, ʊ
ʊ > ʌ / except after labials, but a bit irregular (except in north England)
ng > ŋ / _# (most dialects)
iu > juː (except in Wales)
tʃj, dʒj, jj, rj, Clj > tʃ, dʒ, j, r, Cl
uː, oː > ʊ, ɵ / unstressed
ui > ɔi
tj, dj, sj, zj > tʃ, dʒ, ʃ, ʒ / before an unstressed vowel
ɛ, ɪ, ʊ, ʌ > ɜ / _r (except in parts of Ireland and Scotland)
V > Vː / _r (coda /r/ only)
alf, alv > aːf, aːv (but in America there is no lengthening)
a, aː > ɔ, ɔː / w_ (except before velars)
ɛi, ɔu > eː, oː (not all dialects)
eː, oː > ei, ou (not all dialects)
ɔ > ɔː / _s, _θ, _f, _g, _ŋ (In America; also in RP, but only before the voiceless fricatives)
a > aː / _s, _θ, _f, _ns, _nt, _ntʃ, _nd, _mpəl (inconsistently, southern England only)
r > ər / ai_, au_, ɔi_, iː_, eː_, uː_, oː_ (only in coda if after a high vowel or diphthong in some accents; completely absent in Scottish or Irish)
l > əl / ai_, au_, ɔi_, iː_, eː_, uː_, oː_ (in coda; not in RP or many other accents)
iːə, uːə, eːə, oːə > ɪə, ʊə, ɛə, ɔə (resisted in many accents, especially with the high vowels)
ɔː > ɔ / _lC[+alveolar], _st (some English accents)
r > Ø / coda (in non-rhotic accents)
ɔ > ɒ (except in Scottish accents)
eː, oː > ei, ou (not all accents)
ft, st > f, s / _ən, _əl
ɪə, ʊə, ɛə, ɔə > ɪ, ʊ, ɛ, ɔ (in America)
hw > w (not all accents)
ɒ > ɑː (in America)
ɵ, ʊ, ɪ > ə / _C (to various extents in different accents)
h > Ø (not all accents)
ɔə > ɔː (ʊə too in England, but resisted in RP)
j > Ø / l_, s_, z_, θ_, t_, d_, n_ (only before a stressed vowel; to various extents in different accents)
ɑ, ɔ > ɒ (in the west USA and Canada; I'm not exactly sure what they merge into)
Various additional changes, differing with dialect. For example in RP:
a, aː, ou, ʌ > æ, ɑː, əu, ɐ


Last edited by Alces on Mon Dec 20, 2010 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 7:40 am 
Lebom
Lebom
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:09 pm
Posts: 87
Location: Merseyside, England, UK
And some Anatolian sound changes. This is all according to Melchert, from a paper I found somewhere on the Internet (I don't remember the URL). The languages covered are Hittite, Palaic, Luwian, Lycian and Lydian.

EDIT: Found it: http://www.unc.edu/~melchert/anathistphon.pdf.

C = consonant
V = vowel
T = voiceless stop
D = voiced stop
H = laryngeal
R = resonant
Ḱ = palatovelar
K = velar
N = nasal
S = plosive

PIE > Common Anatolian:
eh₂ > æː / tautosyllabic
ei > ẹː
eu > uː
Dʱ > D
VRHV > VRRV
h₁ > Ø
h₃ > Ø / medially
T, h₂ > D, h₃ / _#, V[-stressed]_V[-stressed], V[+stressed][+long]_, V[+stressed][+diphthong]_
t > z / _y (allophonic)
r > Ø / #_ ("the details of the process are unclear")
je > e / #_ (attested in Luwian, Lycian and Hittite; insufficient evidence from other daughters)
h₁s, sh₁, h₃s, sh₃ > ss (controversial)

Common Anatolian > Hittite:
D > T / #_
T, D > TT, T (voiceless/voiced contrast reanalysed as fortis/lenis. Initially voiceless stops are still written as T)
h₂, h₃ > hh, h (like the stops)
Ḱ > K
V[-long] > V[+long] / stressed open syllables
e, o > eː, oː / stressed closed syllables
o, oː > a, aː (after the stressed vowel lengthening)
æː > eː
e > i / _m, _ŋ, pretonically, posttonically in closed syllables ([ŋ] being an allophone of /n/ before velars)
e > a / _n, posttonically in open syllables
e > a / _r, _l (sporadically)
t > ts / _i (except after /s/)
d > s / #_i, #_j
w > m / _u, u_
y > Ø / V_V
ay, aw > ẹː, uː / unless _s, _n, _r, _l

Common Anatolian > Palaic:
D > T / #_
T, D > TT, T (voiceless/voiced contrast reanalysed as fortis/lenis. Initially voiceless stops are still written as T)
h₂, h₃ > hh, h (like the stops)
Ḱ > K
V[-long] > V[+long] / stressed open syllables
e > i / pretonically
e > a / posttonically in open syllables
o, oː > a, aː (after the first stressed vowel lengthening)
a, e > aː, eː / stressed closed syllables
æː > eː
gʷ > hʷ / medially
hhy > g (<g> is something like /ʒ/)
h > Ø / V[+stressed][+long]_u, u_V[+stressed][+long]
w > y / in *díwots > Tiyaz 'sun-god'; conditioning unknown
ẹː > iː
No evidence to show what happened to the diphthongs

Common Anatolian > Luwian:
D > T / #_
T, D > TT, T (voiceless/voiced contrast reanalysed as fortis/lenis. Initially voiceless stops are still written as T)
h₂, h₃ > hh, h (like the stops)
ḱḱ > z
kʷ > w
ḱ, k > y / _e, _eː
ḱ, k > Ø / _i, _iː
k > Ø / V_V, _N
e > i / y_ (after the change of some /g/ to /j/)
e > a (before the lengthening in stressed syllables)
V[-long] > V[+long] / stressed open syllables
V[-long] > V[+long] / initially and stressed
o, oː > a, aː
d, l > r / in Hieroglyphic Luwian, occasionally
zy > z
hh, h > h, Ø / V[+stressed][+long]_u, u_V[+stressed][+long]
h > Ø / _w (medially)
hh > Ø / _w, _m, _n, _r, _l (medially, and sporadically)
D, R > DD, RR / e[+stressed]_ (if the /e/ is in an open syllable; he doesn't elaborate on the chronology of this)
eː, ẹː > iː
æː > aː

Common Anatolian > Lycian
D > T / #_
D > Ð (i.e. voiced stops > voiced fricatives; they are transcribed with the voiced stop letters)
NÐ, NT > nD (making voiced stops allophones of the voiceless ones after nasals)
dw > kw (but not in Milyan)
kʷ > t or k / _V[+front] (/k/ in Milyan. There is no evidence of what happens to labiovelars in other environments, or plain velars in fact)
gʷ > w (assumed, based on the similar development in Luwian)
ǵ, g > y / _e, _eː
ǵ, g > Ø / _i, _iː
g > Ø / V_V, _N (no evidence for it disappearing before nasals in Lycian)
tsy > ts
s > z / _R, _y, _w (in Milyan, this happened after the change of ḱ to s)
s > h (but not in Milyan)
ḱ > s (after the changes to inherited /s/)
h₃ > g (all the examples are before back vowels)
h₂ > k / V[+front]_V[+front] (suggests that <k> was some kind of palatal stop)
h₂ > q / _V[+front] (<q> is possibly a plain velar stop)
h₂ > x (<x> is possibly a uvular stop)
w > b / C_ (remember, <b> is /v/ in Lycian)
e > i / y_ (after the change of some /g/ to /j/)
eː, ẹː > iː
o > e
æː > aː
V[+long] > V[+short]
e > a / u, a in next syllable
a > e / e, i in next syllable
plus lots of syncope which he doesn't elaborate on

Common Anatolian > Lydian:
d > c / _i, _u
d > t / #_, N_
p > f
d > ð
D > T
NT > ND (making voiced stops allophones of the voiceless ones after nasals)
Ḱ > K (few examples)
Kʷ > K / _V[+rounded]
s > ś
ś > s / _i, _e, i_ (<s> is probably /ʃ/, while <ś> is actually plain /s/)
h₂, h₃ > Ø (few examples)
m, n > ν / _# (that's a Greek nu, I'm not sure what it's supposed to represent)
l > λ / _i, _y
w > f / s_ (so it had probably been fortified to /v/)
y > Ø / C_
y > ð / #_, V_V
u > w / #_
e > i / y_
e, a, o > ẽ / _N in stressed closed syllables
e, a, o > ã / _N in stressed open syllables
e, a, o > a / unstressed
n > Ø / _P (leaves nasalisation on the previous vowel)
o, oː > a, aː / unless _Kʷ, _w
eː > iː
æː > aː
V[+long] > V[+short]
plus lots of syncope which he doesn't elaborate on


Last edited by Alces on Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:00 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 1:13 pm
Posts: 512
Location: Halfway to Hyperborea

_________________
[ˌʔaɪsəˈpʰɻ̊ʷoʊpɪɫ ˈʔæɫkəɦɔɫ]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:29 pm 
Lebom
Lebom
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:43 am
Posts: 139
Location: í Svéalandi


Last edited by Aszev on Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:32 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:39 pm
Posts: 859
Location: The Eastern Establishment
Here's the changes from PIE to Old Irish. It will of course overlap with PIE> Proto-Celtic, but, well...
I'm using ASCA format, more or less.
The letters- 5a, 5b, etc. are still to be read chronologically- the numbers are just a nice way of grouping the changes.

[-sonorant]= p t k kʷ b d g gʷ bʰ dʰ gʰ gʷʰ s
[+sonorant]= m, m̥, n, n̥, l, l̥, r, r̥, w, y
H= i(:), u(:)
F= i(:), e(:)
B= o(:), u(:)

0a. Laryngeal rules (the ones common to all the branches except Anatolian).
0b. If you accept the existence of the PIE palatovelars (and this book doesn't), then they merged with the regular velars.
0c. The PIE rules for the voicing of s>z, as in [nizdos] for *nisdos, are assumed to apply.

1. Cʰ > C

2. ē > ī EXCEPT in the diphthongs ēi, ēu

3a. An obstruent cluster becomes voiced if its final element is voiced, and voiceless if its final element is voiceless.
3b. tt > ss

4a. p > f /{V, #}_
4b. f > x / _[-sonorant]
4c. f > 0 / elsewhere

5a. r̥, l̥ > li, ri, la, ra /_[plosive], _[+sonorant] (It's unpredictable whether the epenthetic vowel is i or a.)
5b. r̥, l̥ > la, ra, al, ar/ _s, _CC, _V, _# (Again- unpredictable).
5c. m̥, n̥ > am, an / _s, _{m, y, w}V, _V
5d. m̥, n̥ > em, en

6. The stress changes as follows:
-Pronouns, the article, and conjunctions are unstressed.
-The first syllable is stressed is stressed in all imperative forms of verbs AND in all other stressable parts of speech (nouns, adjectives, verbs, adverbs, etc.) except on a preverb.
-Otherwise, the second syllable of a word is stressed (regardless of whether or not it's a preverb).
This, unlike the preceding rules, remained a morphologically conditioned rule in Old Irish.

7a. gʷ > b / #_V(! u, ū), #_N, C_V
7b. gʷ > g / elsewhere

Oh goody, our first consonant mutation: lenition.
8a. p t k kʷ b d g m n l r s > f θ x xʷ v ð ɣ M N L R h/ V(#)_[+sonorant], V(#)_V
We don't know the exact values of lenited /m n l r/. We can guess that lenited m became a nasalised labial continuant of some sort, but beyond that, we don't know.
8b. Vkt > Vxt

9. m > n / V_#. It is thought that the vowel needs to be unstressed, but this is not certain.

10. V: > V / _N#. It is thought that the long vowel probably needed to be unstressed- again, this is uncertain.

And another consonant mutation: nasalisation.
11. p t k kʷ b d g 0 > b d g gʷ mb nd ng n /n#_[stressed vowel]

12a. ō > ū / _(C)#. There may be no, one or more than one final consonants.
12b. ōi > ū /_#
12c. ō > ā / elsewhere

13. V: > V / _H . This affects diphthongs.

The following three rules only apply if the vowel is unstressed.
14a. e > i / _(C)#. Again- no, one or more than one final consonants.
14b. o > a/ _{(C), u}#. Same rules- no, one or more than one.
14c. ai, oi > ī / _#

The following two rules apply if the vowel in question is stressed or follows the stressed syllable. "C" may be a single consonant, or any consonant cluster excepting /nd nt/.
15a. i, u > e, o / _C{a e o ā ē ō}.
15b. e, o > i, u / _CH, _Cy

16a. C > Cʲ / _F, _y
16b. C > Cʷ /_B, _w

17. Remaining labiovelars merge with their corresponding velars.

18a. {i o u}n{p t k s} > {i o u}{p t k s}
18b. {a e}n{p t k s} > ē{p t k s}.
The book says nothing about length in the input vowels, but I think they could be either short or long from the examples given.

19a. w > f / #_
19b. w > 0 / {#, C}C_, {θ, x}_, V_{V, #}
19c. w > v / elsewhere

The following changes (20) are, quoth the book, "somewhat approximative".
20a. spr str > sr / #_
20b. sp st > s/ #_ (although it says that occasionally st > t /#_)
20c. {l, r}s[-sonorant] > {l r}[-sonorant] / [anything]_
20d. hn, hm > nn, mm / [anything]_. This change is a bit speculative.
20e. [+plosive1][+plosive2] > [+plosive2][+plosive2]/[anything_]. In other words, a sequence of two plosives becomes a geminate of the second one.
20f. st, zd > ss, dd / [anything]_
20g. {l, h}l, {l, h}r, l{p, s, n}, r{p, s}, ln> ll, rr, ll, rr / [anything]_
20h. All geminate consonants become single.

21a. V > 0 /C_#. C may be any consonant excepting /y/, and the vowel must be unstressed.
21b. C > 0 /_#. C may be any consonant or consonant cluster, except for /l r/, or any clusters containing them. This remained a phonologically conditioned rule in OIr.

22a. au, eu, ou > ō
22b. ei > ē
22c. ō > ua / _[anything] if stressed.
22d. ē > ia / _#, _Cʲ if stressed.
(22e.) ai and oi remain, but are written as <ae ai oe oi>, seemingly randomly.

23. y > 0

24b and 24c may well have been for the most part optional, sayeth the book. Rule 24 only applies to unstressed vowels. Rule 24 remained as a phonologically conditioned rule.
24a. V: > V
24b. a > e _#
24c. e, o > a _[anything]

25. V > V: /_# if stressed. This remained as a phonologically conditioned rule in OIr.

26. V[-sonorant][+sonorant] > V:[+sonorant]- this is a tad unclear, because in some instances it didn't seem to apply.

For the following change (the infamous syncope), <S> represents a syllable. It remained as a phonologically conditioned rule in OIr.
27. V > 0 / #SS(_)S(S(_)S) if unstressed
That's a little unclear, so let me try and enumerate: in words of more than three syllables, every other vowel (only the even ones) is dropped, if it's unstressed. In some words, syncope didn't apply because it would create an unwieldy consonant cluster: so PIE *komaktyom > OIr cumachte, not **cumchte.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:10 pm 
Lebom
Lebom
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:31 pm
Posts: 244
Location: Kliwia Czarna

_________________
uciekajcie od światów konających


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:07 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:17 pm
Posts: 800
Location: The darkest corner of your mind...

_________________

|


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:23 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:50 pm
Posts: 568
Location: California
Have any of these ever been cited?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:57 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 4:56 pm
Posts: 690
Location: Gimaamaa onibaaganing
What do you mean by cited? Cited by whom?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:59 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:50 pm
Posts: 568
Location: California
As in how many have had the sources for the sound changes cited...how many of these sound change lists have references?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:07 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:39 pm
Posts: 859
Location: The Eastern Establishment
I mean...I'm not quite sure we need them. This is a resource for grabbing sound changes; it's not a source for academic papers.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:49 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 4:56 pm
Posts: 690
Location: Gimaamaa onibaaganing
You can go back and read the posts and find out? A number of them do cite sources, though.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:57 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 4:56 pm
Posts: 690
Location: Gimaamaa onibaaganing
Incidentally, I finally got around to updating my many-year-old . So now it's almost accurate! And stuff.

[EDIT, 5/18/2012: fixed link]


Last edited by Whimemsz on Fri May 18, 2012 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:48 pm 
Smeric
Smeric
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:40 pm
Posts: 1248
Location: Si'ahl
Citations for everything would be valuable, and I cited mine when I posted the Uto-Aztecan changes, but the Correspondence Library was never originally intended to have scholarly rigor - it started as a resource for conlangers to gain a clearer idea what's out there and has been updated mainly with that goal in mind, I think. And in a way it's too bad, because a database like this is something largely lacking on the net - beyond family-specific work like the Starostin's databases for Nostratic.

I think ultimately the Library would be well suited to a wiki structure, as an independent site, where anyone can add information and citations as best they can - not just whatever ZBBers and randoms find the KQ. But making that happen is beyond my ken.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 569 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 ... 23  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group