Russian Lessons / Uroki Russkogo Jazyka (Take 2)

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Russian Lessons / Uroki Russkogo Jazyka (Take 2)

Post by Mecislau »

Alright, I was off to a bad start in the first thread. I'm going to start over here, if you don't mind.

This time I've included spelling rules information in the first lesson, essential for understanding the language, and also something I really shouldn't've expected you all to've known already.



<b>LESSON 1 / ПЕРВЫЙ УРОК / P?RVYJ UR?K</b>


1) Background.

Russian is the most widely used of the East Slavic languages, spoken by some 145 million people worldwide, mostly in Russia and the former Soviet Union. Outside of Russia, the largest Russian-speaking populations are in the Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Israel, and the USA, especially around New York City and Washington, DC. It is closely related, and fairly intelligible with, the other East Slavic languages - Ukrainian, Belorussian, and Rusyn.

There are three major dialect groups, known as Northern, Southern, and Central, running in roughly horizontal bands across the European portion of Russia, with the Central dialects becoming dominant further east in Asia. The standard is based off that of Moscow (in the Central zone), while my own dialect is Southern.


2) Phonology

Standard Russian has six vowels: /a e i o u 1/. /e/ and /o/ are generally pronounced [E] and [O], although [E] is raised to [e] before soft (palatalized) consonants. /a/ fronts to [{], /o/ to [2], and /u/ to [y], between two soft consonants.

/a/ and /o/ merge when unstressed, as [@] or [V]. /e/ becomes [I] when unstressed. A few other unexpected reductions may occur, and these will be pointed out when they appear.

(Sorry for the density there, but the vowel allophony system in Russian is not simple).

The consonant system is rather complicated, having both a hard (unpalatalized) and soft (palatalized) series, for a total of 37 consonants:

/p p' b b' t t' d d' k k' g g'/
/ts tS'/
/f f' v v' s s' z z' S Z S:' Z:' x x'/
/m m' n n'/
/r r' l l' j/

T, D, S, Z, N, R, L, and their soft counterparts are all dental (S and Z technically being 'sub-dental', pronounced on the lower teeth). /tS'/ is always palatalized, /ts/ is always hard. /l/ is pronounced strongly velarized, moreso than in English. IMD, /f/ is pronounced bilabially, while /v/ is labio-dental, and /g/ is lenited to [G].

The most significant allophonic change to note is the devoicing of all consonants with an unvoiced pair when word-final.

Voicing and palatal assimilation occurs when consonants come together, but not point-of-articulation. In other words, нг is pronounced [ng], never [Ng]: ангель "angel" ["a.ng'el'] (traditionally the syllable break is always placed right after the vowel - not sure why)


3) Script

The Russian alphabet consists of 33 letters:

<i>Letter - Romanization - Name</i>

Аа - a - а [a]
Бб - b - бэ [bE]
Вв - v - вэ [vE]
Гг - g - гэ [gE]
Дд - d - дэ [dE]
Ее - e - е [jE]
Ёё - jo - ё [jo]
Жж - zh - жэ [ZE]
Зз - z - зэ [zE]
Ии - i - и [i]
Йй - j - и краткое [i "kra.tk@.jE] "short i"
Кк - k - ка [ka]
Лл - l - эль [El']
Мм - m - эм [Em]
Нн - n - эн [En]
Оо - o - о [o]
Пп - p - пэ [pE]
Рр - r - эр [Er]
Сс - s - эс [Es]
Тт - t - тэ [tE]
Уу - u - у [u]
Фф - f - эф [Ef]
Хх - kh - ха [xa]
Цц - ts - цэ [tsE]
Чч - ch - чэ [tS'E]
Шш - sh - ша [Sa]
Щщ - sch - ща [S:'a]
Ъъ - " - твёрдный знак ["tv'o.rdn1j "znak] "hard sign"
Ыы - y - ы [1]
Ьь - ' - мягкий знак ["m'a.xk'ij "znak] "soft sign"
Ээ - ? - э оборотное [E V.bV."ro.tn@.jE] "reversed e"
Юю - ju - ю [ju]
Яя - ja - я [ja]

Now, some spelling rules. You need to know these for lessons later on, when discussing the roots and stems of various words, and they become very useful when conjugating/declining.

Firstly, the soft sign Ь indicates palatalization of the preceding consonant: т [t], ть [t']. When followed immediately by another vowel, however, the soft sign disappears and the vowel <i>letter</i> is switched to its "soft" counterpart:

Hard / Soft
а/я
э/е
ы/и
о/ё
у/ю

(Note that Ы and И are considered a hard/soft pair, despite representing different sounds. /1/ may not occur after soft consonants, and /i/ cannot occur after soft consonants. For this reason, some analyses consider these two allophones of a single vowel phoneme, /i/. However, we will stick to the traditional analysis here)

So, to represent /t'a/, you'd write тя. And the root of море <i>m?re</i> "sea" (found by removing the final vowel) is *морь, since you cannot lose the palatalization of that /r/. For the most part, the only place you will see Ь actually written is word-finally, or occasionally before another consonant - anywhere where a vowel is not immediately following.

The phoneme /j/ is represented by the letter Й, soft i. When followed immediately by another vowel, you use the soft vowel letters again: *айа > ая /aja/. The soft vowels also represent that initial /j/ when word-initial: яркий <i>j?rkij</i> "bright". So the root of здание <i>zd?nije</i> "building" is *зданий- <i>zdanij-</i>. Remember, whenever I say "drop the final vowel", that means phonetically, not orthographically.

Sometimes you will see Ь followed by a soft vowel. This means the preceded consonant is palatalized and a full glide /j/ is present: компьютер <i>komp'j?ter</i> [kV."mp'ju.t'Ir] "computer".

The hard sign, Ъ, does the opposite, preventing palatalization in a place you'd normal expect it, replacing it with just /j/. This letter has very limited usage, more grammatical than phonological: съесть <i>s"j?st'</i> "to eat (perfective)" [sjEs't'].


One final note: Е always causes palatalization or /j/ (initially or after a vowel). This is almost an allophonic rather than a phonemic palatalization. The sole purpose of the hard form Э is to represent /e/ word-initially without a /j/ being forced upon it, and is therefore used almost exclusively in foreign loans, and will not be seen in the middle of a word, the only exception being the names of the letters of the alphabet. So what is the hard counterpart of Е? Morphologically, it's actually О. Ё is on its own. The significance of morphological hard/soft pairs will be discussed later on.




Next lesson I'll redo gender, noun roots, and the nominative plural, hopefully in a much more understandable way. Sorry to those of you who are already well-acquainted with this, but I believe it's necessary. We'll get into the new stuff right afterwards.

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Post by Klaivas »

I think that I'll follow these lessons this time. Can't wait for the first lesson :mrgreen:

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Post by Mecislau »

For those of you who were watching the previous thread, this is a review for the most part. The next lesson'll be new, don't worry.




<b>LESSON 2 / ВТОРОЙ УРОК / VTOR?J UR?K</b>


1) Some Basic Vocabulary:

Hello - Привет priv?t [p'r'i."v'Et] (informal), Здравствуйте zdr?vstvujte ["zdra.stvuj.t'E] (formal - colloquially pronounced more like ["zdra.s't'E]).
Goodbye - До Свидания do svid?nija [d@ s'v'I."da.n'i.j@] (the preposition до here is unstressed)
Good morning! - Доброе Утро! d?broje ?tro ["do.br@.jE "u.tr@]
Good day! - Добрый День! d?bryj d?n' ["do.br1j d'{n']
Good evening! - Добрый Вечер! d?bryj v?cher ["do.br1j v'e.tS'Ir]

Please - Пожалуйста pozh?lujsta [pV."Za.5uj.st@, pV."Za.5V.st@, pV."Za.5st@]
Thank you - Спасибо spas?bo [spV."s'i.b@]
You're Welcome = Please

Yes - Да d? [da]
No - Нет n?t [n'Et, n'E@t]

2) Gender

Russian nouns have three genders - Masculine, Feminine, and Neuter. Generally speaking, feminine nouns end in /a/ or a soft consonant (orthographically -а, -я, -ь), while neuter nouns end in /e/ or /o/ (orthographically -е, -о). Other words are generally are masculine.

The root of a noun be identified by removing the final vowel, if any. Remember the spelling rules - only remove the vowel sound, nothing else:
  • город g?rod (m) "city" > *город-
  • книга kn?ga (f) "book" > *книг-
  • кость k?st' (f) "bone" > *кость-
  • здание zd?nije (n) "building" > *зданий-
  • место m?sto (n) "place" > *мест-
  • море m?re (n) "sea" > *морь-
A small set of nouns have an epenthetic fill vowel in the nominative singular that disappears in all other forms - /e/ if the consonant before it is soft, /o/ if it is hard. Here's the first example of the O/E pairing in Russian morphology:
  • сон s?n "dream" > *сн-
  • огонь og?n' "fire" > *огнь-
  • день d?n' "day" > *днь- (The /d'/ remains soft because of regressive palatal assimilation. For example, the plural дни is pronounced [d'n'i] because the palatalization induced by the И is carried over to both consonants in the cluster.)
Many recent loan words are wholly undeclinable, and therefore have roots identical to the nominative singular: радио r?dio, такси taks?.


3) The Nominative Plural

For masculine and feminine nouns, -ы is added to the root: кот k?t > коты kot? "cats", журнал zhurn?l "magazine" > журналы zhurn?ly, машина mash?na "car" > машины mash?ny. If the root ends in a soft consonant or /j/, use -И instead, because of the hard/soft pairing: кость k?st' > кости k?sti, день d?n' > дни dn?, операция oper?tsija "operation" > операции oper?tsii.

If the final consonant of the root is a velar (к г х) or post-alveolar (ш ж щ ч), never use Ы, but always И: книга kn?ga > книги kn?gi.

For neuter nouns, the ending is usually -а/-я, sometimes accompanied by ending-stress (ie, stress on that /a/ rather than on the root): место m?sto > места mest?, море m?re > моря morj?, здание zd?nije > здания zd?nija.


Many feminine and neuter nouns stressed on the final syllable in the nominative singular shift the stress back to the beginning in the plural. These just have to be memorized:
  • семья sem'j? "family" > семьи s?m'ji (note the remaining soft sign - you should understand why it wasn't dropped here)
  • окно okn? "window" > окна ?kna
  • письмо pis'm? "letter (as in a note, not ABC)" > письма p?s'ma
Related to the above are the following irregulars, where the /e/ mutated to /o/ in a historical shift. This is also why the letter Ё is just an Е with an umlaut.
  • сестра sestr? "sister" > сёстры sj?stry
  • жена zhen? "wife, woman" > жёны zhj?ny
And, of course, there's always some irregulars. Notice how many of these are kinship terms.
  • дом d?m "house" > дома dom?
  • брат br?t "brother" > братья br?t'ja
  • муж m?zh "husband, man" > мужья muzh'j?
  • сын s?n "son" > сыновья synov'j?
  • друг dr?g "friend" > друзья druz'j?
  • мать m?t' "mother" > матери m?teri
  • дочь d?ch' "daughter" > дочери d?cheri
Note the last two examples, where the /r/ found in English (mother, daughter) reappears, making the connection more transparent.


EXERCISES:

Many of these are the same as in the other set of lessons - if you did those, you can skip these (though I'd encourage you to try #4, for the fun of it). The next lesson after this one, however, will have all-new information

1) Identify the gender of the following nouns:
  • кошка k?shka "cat"
  • комната k?mnata "room"
  • стол st?l "table"
  • студент stud?nt "student"
  • школа shk?la "school"
  • дело d?lo "matter, dealing"
  • вещь v?sch' "thing"
  • дверь dv?r' "door"
2) Pluralize the above.

3) Pluralize the following (a bit trickier)
  • отец ot?ts "father" (root = *отц-)
  • огонь og?n' "fire" (root = *огнь-) (A cognate with "ignite", I'm fairly sure)
  • рот r?t "mouth" (root = *рт-)
  • история ist?rija "story"
  • кремль kr?ml' "citadel" (also the source of the English word "Kremlin")
  • поезд p?jezd "train" (pluralize it like you do with дом)
4) Challenge: Pluralize the noun лев l?v "lion". It doesn't seem all that hard, except for the fact that that /e/ is epenthetic. Therefore, the /e/ will drop, but the /l'/ must remain palatalized, while the /v/ must remain hard, as they are in the singular.

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Post by Delalyra »

:mrgreen:
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Post by dwk »

?Kremlin? is of German(ic) origin.

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Post by Mecislau »

Tijger wrote:?Kremlin? is of German(ic) origin.
It came into English from German, yes. But it came into German from Russian.
[Obsolete German Kremelin, from Old Russian *kremlьnъ, separate, from kremlь, a separate place, citadel.]

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Post by tatapyranga »

Yes! Russian lessons!
That's great so far, Maknas. I like the attention to small phonological details, and your explanations have been concise and clear, better than most descriptions I've seen so far.

Большое Спасибо!
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Post by dwk »

Weird, some sources even claim it's of Tatar origin.

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Post by Mecislau »

Anyone have a guess for the plural of лев?

And, more importantly, for the other exercises above?


Realize I won't post another lesson until I get some replies from the previous one! I have a completed one just sitting on my desktop right now! :)

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Post by Delalyra »

Maknas wrote:Anyone have a guess for the plural of лев?

And, more importantly, for the other exercises above?

Realize I won't post another lesson until I get some replies from the previous one! I have a completed one just sitting on my desktop right now! :)
Fine, I'll post my answers to the rest of of the excerises tomorrow...I'm out of free time tonight. As to лев, I'd guess....um....лвы? That's without thinking about it, though, so I'm probably wrong.
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Post by Mecislau »

Delalyra wrote:Fine, I'll post my answers to the rest of of the excerises tomorrow...I'm out of free time tonight.
No problem.
Delalyra wrote:As to лев, I'd guess....um....лвы? That's without thinking about it, though, so I'm probably wrong.
Sorry, nope :)

You've lost the palatalization on the L.


(It's really not all that hard, it just takes a little bit of thinking at first)

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Post by Gazariah »

Related to the above are the following irregulars, where the /e/ mutated to /o/ in a historical shift. This is also why the letter Ё is just an Е with an umlaut.

* сестра sestr? "sister" > сёстры sj?stry
* жена zhen? "wife, woman" > жёны zhj?ny
This is not quite right. The plural "sisters" is /s'?stry/ not /sj?stry/. And "wives" is not /zhj?ny/ but /zh?ny/.

You are right of course about the history of these, but for synchronic description why not make it simpler?

Singular
жена /zhon?/
сестра /s'ostr?/

Plural
жёны /zh?ny/
сёстры /s'?stry/

Since the dotted <ё> can only be written in an accented syllable, the spelling <жена> is the expected representation of /zhon?/ .

Similarly for neuter nouns like здaние, врaньё, поле, вaренье, окно (building, fibbing, field, jam, window). All of these have underlying /o/:
/zdan'ij+o/, /vran'j+o/, /pol'+o/, /varen'j+o/, /okn+o/. The spelling system obscures things a bit, but all of these are perfectly regular neuter nouns ending in /o/. And there are no neuter nouns ending in a stressed /e/, except for unassimilated borrowings, which are marked off by being indeclinable, e.g. пенсне (pince-nez).

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Post by Gaspard »

Maknas wrote:Anyone have a guess for the plural of лев?
...львы?
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Post by Xonen »

Gazariah wrote:
Related to the above are the following irregulars, where the /e/ mutated to /o/ in a historical shift. This is also why the letter Ё is just an Е with an umlaut.

* сестра sestr? "sister" > сёстры sj?stry
* жена zhen? "wife, woman" > жёны zhj?ny
This is not quite right. The plural "sisters" is /s'?stry/ not /sj?stry/. And "wives" is not /zhj?ny/ but /zh?ny/.
If you look closely, you'll notice that those "sj?stry" and "zhj?ny" are meant to be romanizations, not phonemic transcriptions. And as a slight nitpick I might note that phonemically those would be /"s_jostr1/ and /"Zon1/ (certainly not */zhony/) in any case.
You are right of course about the history of these, but for synchronic description why not make it simpler?

Singular
жена /zhon?/
сестра /s'ostr?/

Plural
жёны /zh?ny/
сёстры /s'?stry/
I'd imagine that's because at least /ZE"na/ and /Zo"na/ are pronounced differently: [ZE"na] (or thereabouts; the vowel might be somewhat centralized) and [ZV"na], respectively. Also, because telling people that <е> represents /E/ in some positions and /o/ in others would probably be more confusing than telling them some words undergo a sound change in certain forms.
[quote="Funkypudding"]Read Tuomas' sig.[/quote]

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Post by Delalyra »

My answers!

1&2:
кошкы "cats" F
комнаты "rooms" F
столы "tables" M
студенты "students" M
школы "schools" F
дела "matters, dealings" N
вещьи "things" F
дверьи "doors" F

3:
отци ?fathers?
огньи ?fires?
рти ?mouths?
истории "stories"
кремльи "citadels"
поезда "train"

4. лви, ?lions??
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Post by Gazariah »

Toumas,

I can see you have good knowledge on this subject. Maybe I did mistake transliteration for phonemics. It's not enclosed in slashes.

Letter <e> for /e/ in some places and /o/ in others is a problem. But it's a problem with the Russian writing system in general. Are you going to tell students that покупaет has the ending /et/ while дaет has the ending /ot/? Isn't saying that море has final /e/ and окно final /o/ the same thing?

You are right about [ZV"na] not surfacing in the pronunciation of modern standard Russian. But

1. the difference between [ZV"na] and the correct pronunciation is very slight (sub-phonemic), and the contrast occurs in very few circumstances. Maybe the reduced vowel in жонглёр "juggler" could be said to differ from the reduced vowel in женa. How important is that difference? Important enough so that we introduce an unpredictable /e/ > /o/ rule into the grammar?

2. There are ways to cover this difference in pronunciation and retain the analysis with underlying /o/. I admit the rule looks a bit ad hoc. But remember that it applies to only a few words in the language.

http://www.bcs.rochester.edu/cls/s2000n1/crosswhite.pdf Look for the chart on p. 61 (167) in the pdf.

3. If you still think the phonetics are justification for giving different underlying representations to the singular and plural of this noun, what about шёлк and шелки ("silk, silks")? The difference in the stressed/unstressed vowels is exactly the same as for жёны and женa. Will you say there is another rule that changes the underlying /o/ of шёлк to an /e/ in the plural, giving the correct pronunciation for шелки?

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Post by Mecislau »

Gazariah wrote:
Related to the above are the following irregulars, where the /e/ mutated to /o/ in a historical shift. This is also why the letter Ё is just an Е with an umlaut.

* сестра sestr? "sister" > сёстры sj?stry
* жена zhen? "wife, woman" > жёны zhj?ny
This is not quite right. The plural "sisters" is /s'?stry/ not /sj?stry/. And "wives" is not /zhj?ny/ but /zh?ny/.
Excuse me? What are you arguing? Like Tuomas said, those are romanizations, not phonetic transcriptions. I always put phonetics in either brackets or slashes, whichever is more appropriate.
Gazariah wrote:Similarly for neuter nouns like здaние, врaньё, поле, вaренье, окно (building, fibbing, field, jam, window). All of these have underlying /o/:
/zdan'ij+o/, /vran'j+o/, /pol'+o/, /varen'j+o/, /okn+o/. The spelling system obscures things a bit, but all of these are perfectly regular neuter nouns ending in /o/. And there are no neuter nouns ending in a stressed /e/, except for unassimilated borrowings, which are marked off by being indeclinable, e.g. пенсне (pince-nez).
Sure I could describe it that way, but this isn't meant to be a descriptive generative grammar of the language. For people who aren't well-versed in the inner workings of Slavic languages, I'd imagine the generative descriptions are much more than they're looking for.

In other words, just what Tuomas said...



Delalyra wrote:кошкы "cats" F
Remember - the ending is always spelt и after velar consonants: кошки
Delalyra wrote:вещьи "things" F
дверьи "doors" F
Drop the Ь in both. The use of И instead of Ы preserves the palatalization you want. Remember:

*дверь + -ы > *дверь-ы > двери
/dv'er'/ + /1/ > /dv'er'1/ > /dv'er'i/

The merging of ьы as и is a feature of the spelling system - the whole hard vowel vs. soft vowel concept.

Though technically the soft sign in вещь doesn't do anything - it would still be pronounced /v'eS:'/ with or without it. Here it's basically functioning as an orthographic marker of the feminine gender.

Russian spelling isn't the simplest thing to learn. It doesn't exactly operate on the same 'one letter, one sound' ideal the Latin script tends toward, instead using letters to modify others.
Delalyra wrote:отци ?fathers?
рти ?mouths?
Erm, don't use И here, use Ы. The last consonants are not palatalized. Рти would be pronounced /r't'i/, while what you want is рты /rt1/.
Delalyra wrote:огньи ?fires?
кремльи "citadels"
Here the final consonants are soft, so your И here are correct. Just drop the superfluous soft signs.

All of the others ones you did perfectly on. And you got all the genders correct.
Delalyra wrote:лви, ?lions??
Heh, I guess I called it 'challenge' for a reason. This would be pronounced /l'v'i/ (due to palatali assimilation). You want /l'v1/.
Gaspard wrote:...львы?
:)

Good job! That's it!

But don't worry - words like this are relatively few in Russian.

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Delalyra
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Post by Delalyra »

Maknas wrote:[...]
Okay! :)
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Post by Mecislau »

Ack, sorry, forgot to post the next lesson!



<b>LESSON 3 / ТРЕТИЙ УРОК / TR?TIJ UR?K</b>


1) The Personal Pronouns

Russian has eight nominative personal pronouns. Just like in English, there are three forms for the 3SG slot, varying by gender.

1SG: я j? "I"
2SG: ты t? "You"
3SGM: он ?n "He, It"
3SGF: она on? "She, It" (remember the vowel reductions - this should be pronounced [V."nA]
3SGN: оно on? "It"

1PL: мы m? "We"
2PL: вы v? "You all"
3PL: они on? "They"

Remember, the gendered pronouns refer to grammatical gender, not biological gender. Therefore, you would call a book, книга kn?ga, a "she".

The 2PL pronoun вы is also used as a formal singular, like the Spanish Usted. When speaking to a single person in a formal situation, you'd want to use вы rather than ты, as a matter of courtesy.


2) The Relative Pronoun это ?to

(I believe это is the only native word in Russian to use the letter Э, and so is pronounced ["e.t@])

English, and many other languages, have two levels of distance expressed in its relative pronouns - "this/these" and "that/those". Spanish and many others have three - "ese/este/aquel" (as did English when the word "yonder" was still in fashion). Russian only has one, это ?to, which can be translated into English as all of "this, these, that, those". It does not inflect for gender, number, or distance.

(For those of you here who already know a fair bit about the language: Yes, a second demonstrative то t?[/i] also exists, but it is only used in special circumstances.)[/i]


3) The Verb "To Be" in the Present Tense

The following are the forms of "to be" in the Russian present tense:


That is, there are none. In the present tense, the verb "be" is implied rather than expressed:

Это Иван. Он профессор. ?to Iv?n. ?n prof?ssor. "This is Ivan. He is a professor."

The one remaining remnant of the former present tense is the 3SG form есть j?st', now only used to mean "there is". However, I'd argue that it is no longer really viewed as the 3SG form of the verb, based on some of its modern usage.


4) The Prepositional Case (Singular)

The prepositional case is probably the easiest to form and use in Russian. The rules are:
  • If the root of the noun ends in /j/ (that is, й), add -и: здание zd?nije > здании zd?nii
  • Otherwise, add -е, even if it entails palatalizing a consonant not palatalized in the nominative form: Москва Moskv? [mV."skvA] "Moscow" > Москве Moskv? [mV."skv'e].
This case is only used after four prepositions. Two of these will be used in this lesson.
  • в v means "in". This preposition is vowelless, so it is pronounced as part of the following word: в Москве v Moskv? [vmV."skv'E], в России v Ross?i [vrVs."s'i.i]
  • на na means "on" (notice I didn't put an accent here - do not stress this preposition!): на столе na st?le [nV "sto.l'E]

5) Three Interrogative Pronouns - что cht?, кто kt?, где gd?

Что (pronounced [Sto]), кто, and где mean "What?", "Who?", and "Where?", respectively.

Watch your intonation when asking questions. In English, and many other languages, questions are accompanied by a rising intonation toward the end of the sentence. In Russian, it's actually a falling intonation. If you try to use English-style inflection, it will not be understood that you're asking a question!


6) Articles

There are none in standard Russian. They are implied rather than marked, especially through mechanisms such as word order. Some of the patterns you should be aware of will be discussed later.


EXERCISES:

1) Translate the following sentences into Russian:
  • Where is the letter? The letter is on the table.
  • Who is this? She is Yelena.
  • I am a professor in the University.
  • The Kremlin is in Moscow.
  • They're in the school right now.
  • There is a newspaper on the chair.
  • Where is Ivan? Is he here in the park, or over there in the building?
Vocab:
  • университет universit?t "University"
  • Кремль Kr?ml' "The Kremlin" (capitalized = The Kremlin in Moscow; lowercase = any kremlin)
  • школа shk?la "school"
  • сейчас sejch?s "now" (pronounced [sI."tS'As], or colloquially as счас [S:'As])
  • газета gaz?ta "newspaper"
  • стул st?l "chair"
  • здесь zd?s' "here"
  • или ?li "or"
  • там t?m "there"
  • парк p?rk "park"

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Delalyra
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Post by Delalyra »

Maknas wrote:Ack, sorry, forgot to post the next lesson!
Not a problem! :D
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Post by Tuli »

I'll have a go at the Russian too. The lessons are great, very clear.

Lesson 2:
1) Identify the gender of the following nouns:
? кошка k?shka "cat" feminine
? комната k?mnata "room" feminine
? стол st?l "table" masculine
? студент stud?nt "student" masculine
? школа shk?la "school" feminine
? дело d?lo "matter, dealing" neuter
? вещь v?sch' "thing" feminine
? дверь dv?r' "door" feminine
2)
? кошки k?shky
? комнаты k?mnaty
? столы st?ly
? студенты stud?nty
? школы shk?ly
? дела d?la
? вещи v?schi
? двери dv?ri
3)‏‏‎‎‎‎
? отцы otts?
? огни ogn?
? рты rt?
? истории ist?rii
? кремли kr?mli
? поезда p?jezda
4) львы l'v?
I assumed the accents remained largely the same

Lesson 3:
1) Где писме? Письмо на столе.
Кто это? Она Елена.
Я профессор в унтверситете.
Кремль в Москве.
Они в школе сейчас.
Есть газета на стуле.
Где Иван. Он здесь в парке, или там в здании?
Gd? pism? (which I'm guessing drops the ь)? Pis'm? na st?le.
Kt? ?to? On? Yelena.
J? prof?ssor v universit?te.
Kr?ml' v Moskv?.
On? v shk?le sejch?s.
J?st' gaz?ta na st?le.
Gd? Ivan? ?n zd?s' v p?rke, ?li t?m v zdan?i?



אני עחשיו חושב שעברית קלה. אבל רוסית גם יפה. י
אני גם רוצה ללמוד את רוסית, אם אני יכול. י
Noranaya died again. Resurrection pending.

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Post by Mecislau »

Nice job, Tuli. You got all the plural forms right. The difficulty is in stress.

Стол is a ending-stress noun, meaning that the accent is generally on the ending, whenever possible. The plural is stol? [stV."51]. I'll make note of the accent patterns in the future (as these become more important when you start declining the nouns more).

Also, plurals in -а generally stress the ending: дела [d'I."5A], поезда [p@.jI."zdA].
Tuli wrote:Где писме? Письмо на столе
Where'd "писме" come from? You want the regular nominative form here: письмо. Also, remember that столе here has ending-stress: [stV."l'E]

EDIT: Oh, wait, I see. Firstly, use the nominative. There's no preposition в or на here. And don't drop the soft sign. When it's inside the root of the noun (as opposed to just at the very end), it never drops.


And "здании" in the prepositional case doesn't move its accent: zd?nii (and yes, pronounce the two /i/'s separately).

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Post by Delalyra »

Sorry it took so long, I wasn't able to get to the computer with my sheet until now.

Where is the letter? The letter is on the table. Где письмо? Письмо на столe.

Who is this? She is Yelena. Кто это? Она Елена. (I took a stab at the spelling of Yelena, here.)

I am a professor in the University. Я профессор в университетe.

The Kremlin is in Moscow. Кремль в Москве.

They're in the school right now. Они в школа сейчас.

There is a newspaper on the chair. это газета на стулe.

Where is Ivan? Is he here in the park, or over there in the building? Где Иван? Он здесь в паркe, или там в здании?

Yay sentences right from the start! :D

And I have a question...would a sentence like где я? be grammatical?
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Post by Pie Man »

Some corrections...
Они в школe сейчас.
Газета на стулe. No "это" as that means "This/that is" I think you could say Есть газета на стуле, but that doesn't sound normal to me.
Где Иван? Он здесь в паркe, или там в зданиe?


And yes, Где я would be grammatically correct.
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Post by Mecislau »

Pie Man wrote:Газета на стулe. No "это" as that means "This/that is" I think you could say Есть газета на стуле, but that doesn't sound normal to me.
I was looking for "Есть газета на стуле" here. "Газета на стулe" alone suggests "The newspaper is on the chair" to me.
Pie Man wrote:Где Иван? Он здесь в паркe, или там в зданиe?
Actually, no, Delalyra was correct. The prepositional singular of здание is здании.
Delalyra wrote:(I took a stab at the spelling of Yelena, here.)
And you got it right :)

Delalyra wrote:And I have a question...would a sentence like где я? be grammatical?
Yes, that's perfectly fine. Either order would be acceptable as well: Я где? is just as correct. I'm finding it a little hard to pinpoint what the difference between these two are, although I'd tend use the latter immediately after a similar question:

Где Иван? А я где?

"Where's Ivan? [wait for answer] And where am I?"

Not that that sentence would ever really be used. Substitute a third person pronoun in there and it'd make a lot more sense.

That's the fun thing with dealing with Russian free word order. Every different order bears its own own subtle meaning, but which can be hard to define exactly.

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