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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:35 pm 
Avisaru
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cromulant wrote:
dhokarena56 wrote:
Am I the only one to think of using "supralabials"? AKA the tongue is placed between the upper gum and the upper lip. When drawn downwards, plosives and nasals can be produced. Not so sure about other manners of articulation though...
That is the worst phone imaginable.
What about linguo-supraorbitals, (or whatever the sounds are made by touching the tip of the tongue to the eyebrow)? [edit]: "linguo-supercilials" is what I meant. [/edit] And anal trills have already been mentioned. (Perhaps only on other threads.) For that matter, a simple labio-nasal sound (lower lip touches tip of nose) may at least tie these "supralabials". Or even the kind of labio-velar that's made by touching the velum with the lower lip. (There really are labio-alveolars in ExtIPA, and I think also in X-SAMPA; made by touching the alveolar ridge with the lower lip. A labio-palatal PoA isn't that much of a stretch from there. A dento-labial sound made touching the upper lip to the backs of the roots of the lower teeth is also possible.) And, an apico-septal (or should that be apico-philtral) PoA made by touching the tip of the tongue to the place where the nasal septum meets the upper lip, is not outside the realm of possibility (for some people -- I'm not one of them).[edit]: Those may be the same as dhokarena56's "supralabials". [/edit] An apico-uvular retroflex, made by touching the tip of the tongue to the uvula, should also be considered.


Last edited by TomHChappell on Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:42 pm 
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Quote:
An apico-uvular retroflex, made by touching the tip of the tongue to the uvula, should also be considered.


That phone is sexy.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:11 pm 
Avisaru
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Silk wrote:
Quote:
An apico-uvular retroflex, made by touching the tip of the tongue to the uvula, should also be considered.
That phone is sexy.
Really? I thought it was dangerous; too much chance of the speaker swallowing his/her own tongue and choking. I suppose an "apico-pharyngeal", or worse an "apico-laryngeal" or "apico-epiglottal" or "apico-glottal", PoA, would be even more dangerous.

The "labio-cervical" PoA, where the lower lip touches the tip of the back cervical vertebra, is not so much dangerous as painful.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:24 pm 
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Silk wrote:
Quote:
An apico-uvular retroflex, made by touching the tip of the tongue to the uvula, should also be considered.


That phone is sexy.


I don't think I can physically do that. The closest I can get is the back of the blade of the tongue.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:25 pm 
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Quote:
The "labio-cervical" PoA, where the lower lip touches the tip of the back cervical vertebra, is not so much dangerous as painful.


"Oh shit, it's a prevoiced labio-cervical velaric ingressive stop with glottalized uvular affrication!" :o

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:54 am 
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The Unseen wrote:
Silk wrote:
Quote:
An apico-uvular retroflex, made by touching the tip of the tongue to the uvula, should also be considered.


That phone is sexy.


I don't think I can physically do that. The closest I can get is the back of the blade of the tongue.


I don't think I can touch anything further back than the soft palate with the tip of my tongue.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:14 am 
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Piotr wrote:
The Unseen wrote:
Silk wrote:
Quote:
An apico-uvular retroflex, made by touching the tip of the tongue to the uvula, should also be considered.


That phone is sexy.


I don't think I can physically do that. The closest I can get is the back of the blade of the tongue.


I don't think I can touch anything further back than the soft palate with the tip of my tongue.


Same here. Reaching the uvula requires me to bring my tongue back as far as it goes: curling my tongue back only reaches the soft palate.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:08 am 
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Its quite hard for me to even reach my soft palate with the tip of my tongue :')

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:46 pm 
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I've considered using voiceless palatalized labialized nasals, especially /N_j_0_w/. They sound cool (yes I can make them!) but they might not survive that long "in the wild."


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:44 pm 
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TomHChappell wrote:
An apico-uvular retroflex, made by touching the tip of the tongue to the uvula, should also be considered.

Not to mention my personal discovery, the uvular lateral approximate.

Betty Cross

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:17 pm 
Avisaru
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BettyCross wrote:
Not to mention my personal discovery, the uvular lateral approximate.
I'd like to know more about that.
Sound recording available?
Spectrogram?
Diagram of tongue and other articulator positions?

---------------

Does anyone's conlang ever use any sounds where the mobile or "soft" articulator is in the speaker's mouth but the stabile or "hard" articulator is in the addressee's mouth?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:38 am 
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TomHChappell wrote:
Does anyone's conlang ever use any sounds where the mobile or "soft" articulator is in the speaker's mouth but the stabile or "hard" articulator is in the addressee's mouth?

Sort of a French kiss?? :P

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:44 pm 
Avisaru
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Neqitan wrote:
TomHChappell wrote:
Does anyone's conlang ever use any sounds where the mobile or "soft" articulator is in the speaker's mouth but the stabile or "hard" articulator is in the addressee's mouth?
Sort of a French kiss?? :P
I think maybe so; or, maybe, an "alfalfa" kiss.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:23 pm 
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TomHChappell wrote:
Neqitan wrote:
TomHChappell wrote:
Does anyone's conlang ever use any sounds where the mobile or "soft" articulator is in the speaker's mouth but the stabile or "hard" articulator is in the addressee's mouth?
Sort of a French kiss?? :P
I think maybe so; or, maybe, an "alfalfa" kiss.

"Alfalfa"? What do you mean? Alfalfa is a kind of plant in Spanish...

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:25 pm 
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EDIT: I posted a picture of alfalfa, one of the little rascals, not realizing this is L&L museum :oops:

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:53 am 
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schwhatever wrote:
Does anyone else use /P/? I thought it was pretty rare (outside of Dutch).
In natlangs, many Indian ones, both Dravidian and Indo-Aryan. Finnish and Estonian have it too. I don't know about conlangs.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:28 am 
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¡Papapishu! wrote:
[*]Only Nuntar (/c_C J\_j\/) and JQP (/c_C_>/) used palatal affricates. These, too, are reasonably common, though I don't know how common contrasting them with /c J\/ is.

Huge bump, but I finally found a language that has that contrast: according to The Sounds of the World's Languages, page 33, Komi contrasts palatal stops with palatal and postalveolar affricates.

edit: Also, the Burkikhan dialect of Agul contrasts voiceless pharyngeal and epiglottal fricatives. Sound samples here.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:52 am 
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I once used a voiced ejective (yes it's possible, but it's more like d͡t ' )

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:17 am 
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Darkgamma wrote:
I once used a voiced ejective (yes it's possible, but it's more like d͡t ' )

It's categorically not possible to make a voiced ejective because of the configuration of the glottis. Technically, they're not voiceless either, but unphonated; the glottis is completely closed, whereas with voicing it's a bit open and vibrating, and with voicelessness it's wide open and not vibrating. So yeah, you can have a pre-voiced ejective or cluster with a [d], like what you wrote there, but not true voicing.

(also taking into account just the shape of the glottis it's arguably closer to voicing than voicelessness but that's a bit of a moot point really)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:32 pm 
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Nortaneous wrote:
¡Papapishu! wrote:
[*]Only Nuntar (/c_C J\_j\/) and JQP (/c_C_>/) used palatal affricates. These, too, are reasonably common, though I don't know how common contrasting them with /c J\/ is.

Huge bump, but I finally found a language that has that contrast: according to The Sounds of the World's Languages, page 33, Komi contrasts palatal stops with palatal and postalveolar affricates.

edit: Also, the Burkikhan dialect of Agul contrasts voiceless pharyngeal and epiglottal fricatives. Sound samples here.


It's not legal to use North Caucasian languages as evidence for anything, as their phonolgies clearly originate from the random phonology generator.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:50 pm 
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Drydic Guy wrote:
Nortaneous wrote:
¡Papapishu! wrote:
[*]Only Nuntar (/c_C J\_j\/) and JQP (/c_C_>/) used palatal affricates. These, too, are reasonably common, though I don't know how common contrasting them with /c J\/ is.

Huge bump, but I finally found a language that has that contrast: according to The Sounds of the World's Languages, page 33, Komi contrasts palatal stops with palatal and postalveolar affricates.

edit: Also, the Burkikhan dialect of Agul contrasts voiceless pharyngeal and epiglottal fricatives. Sound samples here.


It's not legal to use North Caucasian languages as evidence for anything, as their phonolgies clearly originate from the random phonology generator.


Nah, they don't have creaky-voiced implosives or vowel systems with more phonations than POAs. :P

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:09 pm 
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Nortaneous wrote:
Drydic Guy wrote:
Nortaneous wrote:
¡Papapishu! wrote:
[*]Only Nuntar (/c_C J\_j\/) and JQP (/c_C_>/) used palatal affricates. These, too, are reasonably common, though I don't know how common contrasting them with /c J\/ is.

Huge bump, but I finally found a language that has that contrast: according to The Sounds of the World's Languages, page 33, Komi contrasts palatal stops with palatal and postalveolar affricates.

edit: Also, the Burkikhan dialect of Agul contrasts voiceless pharyngeal and epiglottal fricatives. Sound samples here.


It's not legal to use North Caucasian languages as evidence for anything, as their phonolgies clearly originate from the random phonology generator.


Nah, they don't have creaky-voiced implosives or vowel systems with more phonations than POAs. :P


That's just what they WANT you to think.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:13 pm 
Avisaru
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finlay wrote:
Darkgamma wrote:
I once used a voiced ejective (yes it's possible, but it's more like d͡t ' )

It's categorically not possible to make a voiced ejective because of the configuration of the glottis. Technically, they're not voiceless either, but unphonated; the glottis is completely closed, whereas with voicing it's a bit open and vibrating, and with voicelessness it's wide open and not vibrating. So yeah, you can have a pre-voiced ejective or cluster with a [d], like what you wrote there, but not true voicing.

(also taking into account just the shape of the glottis it's arguably closer to voicing than voicelessness but that's a bit of a moot point really)

I've used those, calling them voiced, although I am aware that they really are prevoiced. I think Shad'ak has [dt_> dts_> dtS_>]...

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:25 am 
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¡Papapishu! wrote:
[*]Only Curlyjimsam used that Swedish fricative /x\/. But it's thought by some that that one might not actually exist. (Why not? I don't know. Ask them.)

I'm using it in my current language, at least.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:20 pm 
Avisaru
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Serafín wrote:
TomHChappell wrote:
Does anyone's conlang ever use any sounds where the mobile or "soft" articulator is in the speaker's mouth but the stabile or "hard" articulator is in the addressee's mouth?

Neqitan wrote:
Sort of a French kiss?? :P

TomHChappell wrote:
I think maybe so; or, maybe, an "alfalfa" kiss.

"Alfalfa"? What do you mean? Alfalfa is a kind of plant in Spanish...


While your mouths are together both say "alfalfa".
Nothing to do with plants or Spanish, anymore than butterfly kisses have anything to do with mariposas or French kissing has to do with French.


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