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zompist bboard • View topic - Morphosyntactic alignment

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:00 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:30 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:35 pm 
Lebom
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Arêndron is accusative, and I'm considering making the new version dechticaetiative.

Xephyr would tell you that dechticaetiative is properly pronounced with a /s/, but I say /dEk.tI."kaI.S@.tIv/.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:42 pm 
Niš
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I've always used [dEk.tI."ki.S@.tIv] and <dechticaetiatief> [dEx.ti.kaj.sja.tif] in Dutch. but I suppose aI is more logical.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:44 pm 
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Saimiar is Ergative-Dative, with the interesting distinction of also having Ergative syntax in many instances, including arguement omission. Juteldi is boring ol' Accusative-Dative. Dazgõ Xin, however, marks all six types of core arguements with different cases.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:52 pm 
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The languages of the PCM family, through Noyahtowa, work on an active system; I'm not sure how you'd label the system, but it goes like:

INSTRANSITIVE

Participant is S or O, depending on whether the active conditions are fulfilled.


TRANSITIVE

Participants are marked A and P if active conditions are fulfilled; they are S and O if not.


DITRANSITIVE

As in transitives, except R is incorporated and T marked as P (if active conditions are fulfilled; it is marked as O otherwise).


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:15 am 
Lebom
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:10 am 
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D'abord on ne parla qu'en poésie ; on ne s'avisa de raisonner que long-temps après. J. J. Rousseau, Sur l'origine des langues. 1783


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:44 am 
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May the odds be ever in your favor.
Oi sî đât sort điri
ever be-SUBJ the odds 2S-DAT


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:02 am 
Niš
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Holy crap.

This thread has opened my eyes to what morphosyntactic alignment means. All the wiki articles and peoples' posts here just confused the heck out of me, but these diagrams and explanations finally did it! THANK YOU SANDER!

(And, by the way, dechticaetiative is an incredibly horrible word to pronounce. It breaks my brain and my mouth every time I try.)

While I haven't really determined exactly where Xon will stand on this issue (partially because it's just a script at the moment, without even a phoneme table!) I'm very partial to the accusative-dechticaetiative system. It just seems really...clean, I guess. Very straightforward. I'm still unsure about whether I want to mark cases or not (the monstrous case systems I've seen are very frankly disturbing.) However, this has definitely helped me on my conlanging journey, so I thank you again.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:06 pm 
Lebom
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I hereby declare to be (yet another) active-dative language!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:40 pm 
Niš
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Yen groups S and A together, and does the same with P, R and T.
Since syntactical roles are unmarked (no case system), it indeed relies completely on context to figure out which is which, although animate objects will preferably appear earlier in the verbal clause than inanimate ones.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:59 pm 
Lebom
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My main conlang is plain old accusative-dative. It has been tripartite-dative and will be so again. It's called Lhemburan [yeah ... I know, I know!] The changes I'm working on are great enough to warrant a name change though. So I'm thinking of going for Lhembeku to avoid confusion with Sander's Lembrinn.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:49 pm 
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A lot of information to take in here, but I managed to understand it :mrgreen: Can I nominate this for the L&L museum, perhaps? I know it's in C&C but I think it deserves a place there. Nevertheless, I've decided to make Ewari an ergative-dechticaetiative language... thinking this through carefully, it makes more sense in my mind to group the cases as follows:

A: subject (ergative case)
T: topic (dechticaetiative case)
S P and R: objects (absolutive (?) case)

This will mean I'll need to do some editing, but I wasn't happy with the nom-acc system I had before anyway. Thanks loads Sander!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:47 am 
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