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zompist bboard • View topic - Kinterms In Your Conlangs (And Natlangs)

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:27 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 2:58 pm
Posts: 807
With apologies to Janko;

How many boardmembers have developed kinterms in your conlangs?

For primary kin I take the following fifteen. (I realize not all of them might exist in every conculture (e.g. "godfather" and "blood-brother"); and in some concultures some of them I've called "primary" might be secondary and vice versa (e.g. "father" and "mother's brother"). Also, not all of these will have different words (e.g. "older brother" and "younger brother") in every conculture.)

--- genetic kin ---
Father
Mother
Older Brother
Older Sister
Younger Brother
Younger Sister
Son
Daughter
--- fictive kin ---
Husband
Wife
Godfather
Godmother
Godson
Goddaughter
Blood-Brother

<EDIT>:
In some cultures "Firestick Father" might be used instead of "Godfather".
In others, "Name Father" might be used instead of "Godfather".
Some cultures might use "Oath-Brother" instead of "Blood-Brother".
And so on.
The 18th-century English author, Edward Gibbon (1737-1794), used the term "Father-In-Law" to refer to an adoptive father or fictive father, even moreso than for "spouse's father"; and used the term "Son-In-Law" for an adoptive son or fictive son, even moreso than for "daughter's husband".
</EDIT>

A secondary kinsman is the primary kinsman of a primary kinsman. Your conlang probably has or will need words for many (if not most) kinds of secondary kinsmen, too. There may not be quite 225 of them, since you may leave out husbands of males and wives of females and blood-brothers of females. In some concultures perhaps these would be needed.

<EDIT>:
In modern American English a term is arising, "baby-daddy", meaning "my baby's daddy" i.e. "child's father", which is not necessarily the same as "husband". This ("baby-daddy") is a secondary kinterm, rather than a fictive primary kinterm.
</EDIT>

In some cultures a man helps raise his sisters' children rather than his wives' children; and his heir is his oldest sister's oldest son, not his wife's oldest son (who may or may not be his own oldest son). In such cultures "sister's son" could possibly be considered primary while "son" would be considered secondary; actually "son" wouldn't exist as such, instead it would be "wife's son". In such cultures "father" wouldn't be primary -- it might be replaced by "mother's husband" -- while "mother's oldest brother" would be primary.

In some cultures a father's brother is a father and a mother's sister is a mother. In these cultures a father's wife is a mother and a mother's husband is a father, so a brother, a half-brother (whether father's son or mother's son), and a step-brother (whether father's wife's son or mother's husband's son), are all just "brother".

In yet other cultures a careful distinction is made, not only between full-brothers and half-brothers, but also between the two kinds of half-brother; same father but different mother, or same mother but different father.

I'd like to hear as much as you feel about telling us about terms for secondary kin in your conlang, if you have any. You ought to be able to eventually put together a list (yeah, I know, I ought to as well, but I haven't yet); if there are fewer than 100 terms on it, I'd like to see it. You might not feel like posting the whole thing here (but if there are less than 25 terms I hope you will); maybe you'd rather post a URL where we can find it.

EDIT:
In English, a godparent's child or a parent's godchild was a "godsib", from which we get "gossip".
In Spanish, a godchild's father or a child's godfather is a "compadre".
</EDIT>


While most natlangs have terms for some tertiary kin (primary kin of secondary kin, or secondary kin of primary kin); and many have a few terms for quaternary kin (secondary kin of secondary kin); probably most don't have a complete list for tertiary kin, and most don't have any simple terms for kin more distant than quaternary kin.

But Turkish, for instance, has a term for "son's wife's father" or "daughter's husband's father".
And English "abuses" the term "brother-in-law" to include "sibling's spouse's brother" and "spouse's sister's husband", which are tertiary kin, even though technically "brother-in-law" applies only to secondary kin (spouse's brother and sister's husband).

If your conlang has any special terms for any tertiary kin, I'd like to hear them. Chances are a complete list of terms for all tertiary relationships would be too bulky to post here; but you might post a URL that would direct us to the entire list, if you have one and want to.

-----
Tom H.C. in MI


Last edited by TomHChappell on Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:15 pm 
Sanci
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[superseded by post on page 6]


Last edited by Nuntarin on Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:34 pm 
Sanno
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In my current project, Proto-Lentic, the kin terms that I've come up with so far are as follows:

*táto father
*mamî mother
*pʰeró brother, maternal cousin
*relî sister, maternal cousin
*mankî maternal aunt
*tátko maternal uncle
*ʔāstî maternal grandmother
*ʔāstó maternal grandfather
*tátlo paternal uncle, paternal grandfather
*tátlī paternal aunt, paternal grandmother
*núro son, sister's son
*tílja daughter, sister's daughter
*nútlo daughter's son
*tédla daughter's daughter
*núdro son's son, brother's son
*kʰalî son's daughter, brother's daughter
*téglo, *téglī paternal cousin, second cousin, kinsperson by marriage
*ʔámamī wife's mother
*westjá wife
*westó husband

Proto-Lentic society was matrilinear and matrifocal, as I've tried to suggest by the kin terms. It doesn't really match up entirely with any kinship systems I know of from Earth, either.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:01 pm 
Lebom
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...


Last edited by 캉탁 on Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:36 pm 
Sanci
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Location: Ubique sed Nullibi
The system used in my language is rather artificial but I don't claim it to be otherwise. The terms are built off of these basic elements:
ma: female
pa: male
vue: parent
zo: sibling
kae: child
dau: spouse

These elements can be strung together right-branchingly to produce terms for more complex relationships. Examples:
kaezovue = parent's sibling's child = cousin;
zoma = female sibling = sister;
vuemavuepa = male parent's female parent = paternal grandmother;
dauvuepa = male parent's spouse = step-mother;
kaepazovuevuevue = parent's parent's parent's sibling's male child = male 3rd cousin once removed.

There are no such terms for godparents etc., and terms for elder or younger siblings just use an adjective. (until I decide otherwise, that is :D )


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:40 pm 
Niš
Niš

Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:12 am
Posts: 3
Location: Garland, Texas
in Extmws in breaks down like this:

Father sfettèn
Mother amà or anà
Older Brother jlellaà
Older Sister famà or fanà
Younger Brother jlynttèn
Younger Sister famynttàn
Son hsáawsà
Daughter hséeymè

Husband à-ámlámlà
Wife è-ámlàmlà
Godfather claneettèn
Godmother clanaamà
Godson clhsáawsà
Goddaughter clhséeymè


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:39 pm 
Niš
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Location: Inside
Guþlansk:

Father fadar (formal); atta
Mother áiþei /eiTai/
Older Brother bróþar /broTar\/
Older Sister systar /sistar\/
Younger Brother bróþar
Younger Sister systar
Son sunus (grown); baúr /bOur\/(child, boy)
Daughter daúhtar /dOuhtar\/
Grandfather awa /aw@/
Grandmother awó
Cousin niþjo (f); niþjis (m)

Husband aba
Wife kwinó /kwIno/; kwens /kwEns/
Godfather gudfadar /g2dfadar/
Godmother gudáiþei
Godson gudbaúr
Goddaughter guddaúhtar

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:46 pm 
Avisaru
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:55 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

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Posts: 807
Everyone please note I've added some "EDIT:" text to my original post. It could clear up some confusion, (or, on the other hand, it could be quite unnecessary; you tell me! :) )

Nuntarin (Arêndron),
Dewrad (Proto-Lentic),
Sano (Qatama),
Tmeister,
Shigeru (Extmws),
Uitlander (Guþlansk),
and anyone I accidentally left out by typographical error:

Thanks very much!

I know some of you have already done so, but those who haven't, if and when you can and want to, please visit the "Colorterms In Your Conlang" thread here on this same forum.

-----
Tom H.C. in MI


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:56 pm 
Niš
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Location: I exist independent of spacial boundaries
Zzarnildarciz -

llaet - Parent
tlicVOTna - Sibling

There are a few synonyms for these words, but there are no other kinship terms, as I dont plan to incude any. I imagine Zzarnildarciz speakers don't really flesh out kin relationsips that often. We don't even have last names.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:40 pm 
Sanci
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:41 pm 
Lebom
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Location: NorCal
Faranit:
Toeh -father (formal and informal)
Nimih - mother (formal)
Noeh - mother (informal, mommy)
Hehim - sister
Tihim - brother
Hovim - sybling or close friend
Toekih - uncle (ety: father-young)
Nibkeih - aunt (ety: mother-young)
Toebit - grandmother (ety: mother-oldest)
Nibit - grandfather (ety: father-oldest)

Poeleizih Dialect:
Nilaeh - paternal aunt (ety: aunt-better)
Neilhaeh - paternal grandmother (ety: grandmother-better)


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:15 am 
Avisaru
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:26 pm 
Smeric
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Alas, this is not Ayeri's strong suite. I really have to have a look at this again I guess. I'll give you the German words instead and the few Ayeri ones I have.

--- genetic kin ---

Father Vater / badan
Mother Mutter / mahava
Brother Bruder / netu
Sister Schwester / kina
Son Sohn / yan (same as "boy", like French fils)
Daughter Tochter / layra (same as "girl", like French fille)

--- fictive kin ---

Husband (Ehe)Mann / ayon (same as "man", like German Mann)
Wife (Ehe)Frau / envan (same as "woman", like German Frau)
Godfather Patenonkel
Godmother Patentante
Godson Patensohn
Goddaughter Patentochter
Blood-Brother Blutsbruder

<snip> (informative as usual, thanks for that)

What about uncle and aunt as well as the grand-parents, btw?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:55 pm 
Avisaru
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:23 pm 
Niš
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:58 pm 
Avisaru
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:45 pm 
Niš
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:22 am 
Niš
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Last edited by mavonduri on Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:49 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:16 am 
Smeric
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:16 am 
Lebom
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