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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:15 pm 
Lebom
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Quote:
Sano: Do you count the Qatama as non-human? Or are they in the taxonomic "Family" Hominidae, or even in the "Genus" Homo?


I have not given that much thought to the con-biology of my world but, if forced to compare the Qatam to humans, I would say they are 'human-like' but definately not human.

-Sano

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:06 pm 
Avisaru
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Rodlox wrote:
TomHChappell wrote:
... but on-topic for complications of kinship:
Speaking of complexity; another simplifying principle is that no-one's father can be anyone's mother, and no-one's mother can be anyone's father. Has anyone given any thought to kinship systems in a culture in which the same person can be both a father and a mother?

Ursula LeGuin's The Left Hand of Darkness comes to mind.

Yes, I remember that if I am someone's father I call that someone "my son", and if I am someone's mother I call that someone "my daughter". For instance the P.o.V. character (first-person) meets an innkeeper that he thinks of as female; he asks whether the host has any children, and the host replies that (he?she?it?they?) has four sons but no daughters; meaning he(?) has been a father four times but has never been a mother.

But the novel doesn't cover everything.

For instance, there might be a difference between two full-siblings who had the same mother and the same father, and two full-siblings of whom the father of each was the mother of the other.

Since the terms "brother" and "sister" don't translate well when everyone is hermaphroditic, perhaps, in parallel to what she did with "son" and "daughter", LeGuin could have said "brother" is a (full-or-)half-sibling with the same father as you, and "sister" is a (full-or-)half-sibling with the same mother as you?

Then there's spouses (no husbands or wives).

And secondary relatives get even more complicated. Uncles? aunts? nephews? nieces?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sano wrote:
Quote:
Sano: Do you count the Qatama as non-human? Or are they in the taxonomic "Family" Hominidae, or even in the "Genus" Homo?

I have not given that much thought to the con-biology of my world but, if forced to compare the Qatam to humans, I would say they are 'human-like' but definately not human.
-Sano

Thanks.

If life evolved on their world independently of its evolution here, perhaps they aren't even the same kingdom as any on earth.

But if there was communication between the two planets or worlds, they could be the same Order (Primates) or not; the same Class (Mammalia) or not; the same Phylum (Chordata) or not; and they'd almost surely be the same Kingdom (Animalia).

Judging from your sociological description of their culture, they sound like they have bones and internal skeletons and joints, so they probably have spines and spinal chords, and count as Vertebrata, a sub-phylum of Chordata.

Whatever organisms traveled from Earth to Qatam-world and/or vice-versa may have done so before mammals evolved; if so they wouldn't have "mammals" there, strictly speaking.

You didn't say they breast-feed, but it sounds like they probably do something equivalent to that, so they'd probably be their world's equivalent to Mammalia. You didn't say whether they lay eggs like Monotremes (who are mammals), or carry their young in pouches like Marsupials (who are also mammals); but I think you make it sound as if they bear young at about the same level of maturity as Placental mammals.

They seem to have the same level of behavioral flexibility that is pretty much the trademark of Order Primates *here*. So even if they aren't Hominids they might be Primates; or at least their world's equivalent. It would depend on whether there was any migration from either world to the other after the Primates evolved.

Strictly speaking, "Hominid" means "belonging to the Family Hominidae"; and you are saying your Qatam are "humanoid" rather than "Hominid". But they might still be Hominids, technically, if your con-history allows some travel from one world to the other after that Family evolved. You'd need to decide whether they are even more non-human than great apes.

Other members of our genus, Homo, count as "human", even if they aren't members of our species. So your Qatam are, I take it, definitely more different from us than the Neandertals or Homo Erectus or Homo Habilis etc.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:22 pm 
Niš
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TomHChappell wrote:
Has anyone kept count of how many non-human sets of kinterms have been submitted to this thread?

Has anyone come up with a kinship system for a species with three or more sexes wherein some individuals have three or more parents?

If anyone on-thread or on-board has thought about the problems of kin-terminology that time-travel might produce; have you gotten anywhere with the language for it?

For instance, one of the simplifying principles for classifying those of my relatives of whom one or more of my parents or grandparents may also be one or more of their parents or grandparents, is that, for instance, I cannot possibly be the grandparent of one of my grandparents.

Telemachus had a son by Circe, and Circe's son by Ulysses had a son by Penelope, so those two boys were simultaneously each others' half-uncles, each others' half-nephews, and each others' half-cousins; but that's as complicated as it can get with real-life humans and no incest.

Speaking of complexity; another simplifying principle is that no-one's father can be anyone's mother, and no-one's mother can be anyone's father. Has anyone given any thought to kinship systems in a culture in which the same person can be both a father and a mother?


Although the language and culture I am currently working on ( the Emna Yagl language spoken by the Yot) has only two sexes, kinship is somewhat complicated by the fact that they practice a form of polyandry in which a female has two husbands, each of which is equally considered to be the father of her children. To further complicate things, the Yot (who are not human, but are mammalian and humanoid) generally give birth to twins, and such relations are encoded the the kinship terms. Generally speaking, identical twins share the same terms, so one's mother and her identical twin sister can both be referred to as 'mother'. However, there is a means of disambiguation where in the 'closer' relative is referred to with the proximate form of the kin term, and the 'further' relative is known by the obviate form. In the list below, kin terms will be listed in the order: proximate, obviate.

There is also some conflation of generation in favor of absolute age. For example, one's older sister(s), mother's younger sister, mother's older sister's daughter (if older than ego) all share the same term.

Examples

rin, riun: father, father's identical twin brother, mother's husband
oul, oiul : mother, mother's identical twin sister
olu, oilu : mother's mother, mother's mother's identical twin
dom: mother's older sister, mother's non-identical twin sister
dwiga: father's older sister, father's non-identical twin sister
lyun, lyuin: mother's father, mother's father's identical twin
fonwe: older sister, mother's younger sister, mother's older sister's daughter (older than ego)
adrii: older brother, mother's younger brother, mother's older sister's son (older than ego)
myegw: younger sister, mother's identical twin's daughter (if younger than ego), mother's younger sister's daughter (if younger than ego)
nyogma: younger brother, mother's identical twin's son (if younger than ego), mothere's younger sister's son (if younger than ego)


At the moment, I am only beginning to work out how they keep track of kin, but here is the begining of what I have worked out. Any comments, questions, critiques, $5,000 checks, or fine imported teas, are most joyfully received.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:16 pm 
Avisaru
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Ar Ahlotsaensar wrote:
Although the language and culture I am currently working on ( the Emna Yagl language spoken by the Yot) has only two sexes, kinship is somewhat complicated by the fact that they practice a form of polyandry in which a female has two husbands, each of which is equally considered to be the father of her children. To further complicate things, the Yot (who are not human, but are mammalian and humanoid) generally give birth to twins, and such relations are encoded the the kinship terms. Generally speaking, identical twins share the same terms, so one's mother and her identical twin sister can both be referred to as 'mother'. However, there is a means of disambiguation where in the 'closer' relative is referred to with the proximate form of the kin term, and the 'further' relative is known by the obviate form. In the list below, kin terms will be listed in the order: proximate, obviate.
There is also some conflation of generation in favor of absolute age. For example, one's older sister(s), mother's younger sister, mother's older sister's daughter (if older than ego) all share the same term.

Interesting and complicated! Thanks.
You say most births are twin-births; are most twin-pairs identical? If not, are most same-sex?

Ar Ahlotsaensar wrote:
Examples
rin, riun: father, father's identical twin brother, mother's husband
oul, oiul : mother, mother's identical twin sister
olu, oilu : mother's mother, mother's mother's identical twin
dom: mother's older sister, mother's non-identical twin sister
dwiga: father's older sister, father's non-identical twin sister
lyun, lyuin: mother's father, mother's father's identical twin
fonwe: older sister, mother's younger sister, mother's older sister's daughter (older than ego)
adrii: older brother, mother's younger brother, mother's older sister's son (older than ego)
myegw: younger sister, mother's identical twin's daughter (if younger than ego), mother's younger sister's daughter (if younger than ego)
nyogma: younger brother, mother's identical twin's son (if younger than ego), mothere's younger sister's son (if younger than ego)

Thanks. The conlang looks pretty.

Ar Ahlotsaensar wrote:
At the moment, I am only beginning to work out how they keep track of kin, but here is the begining of what I have worked out. Any comments, questions, critiques, $5,000 checks, or fine imported teas, are most joyfully received.

I can send you a check made of rubber. :oops:
Speaking of tea, I think I'll go have some now.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:05 pm 
Avisaru
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Simon Clarkstone's Kigdatsi:
simon.clarkstone wrote:
TomHChappell wrote:
Rodlox wrote:
Ursula LeGuin's The Left Hand of Darkness comes to mind.

Yes, I remember that if I am someone's father I call that someone "my son", and if I am someone's mother I call that someone "my daughter".
...
Since the terms "brother" and "sister" don't translate well when everyone is hermaphroditic, perhaps, in parallel to what she did with "son" and "daughter", LeGuin could have said "brother" is a (full-or-)half-sibling with the same father as you, and "sister" is a (full-or-)half-sibling with the same mother as you?
...

Well, The Kigdatsi are all hermaphrodites, and normal mating will produce what I call "anti-twins", i.e. two individuals that are conceived, born, and hatch at the same time, but each's mother is the other's father. Abusing "son", "daughter", "brother", and "sister" as above is just confusing, it would be better to invent some native terms, or maybe try to translate the historical roots the native terms come from, to produce (e.g.) "supater", "sumater", "copater", and "comater" respectively, which are reasonably mnemonic.

Combining, you get things like "anti-copater" meaning someone who shares one parent with you: their mother is your father.

And that's just the biological relationships. Fortunately for the Kigdatsi they lack our sort of marrige, and have "composition" in their language which is good for dealing with such things.

Anticipating Simon's permission I've posted this to the "kinterms" thread.
If Simon doesn't want it here, I'll delete it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:23 pm 
Niš
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[formal / informal/familiar]

Father - polec / popo, popko
Mother - mat / mama, matka, matuszka
Older Brother - (véle/najstærne) bræt / razbrat, bræcko
Older Sister - (véla/najstærna) séstra / siszka, braczka
Younger Brother - (viedze/najdúpe) bræt / bræcko
Younger Sister - (viedza/najdúpa) séstra / siszka, braczka
Son - syn / décko
Daughter - doicz / doszka

Grandfather - stærne polec / dédko
Great-grandfather - naipolec
Grandmother - stærna mat / babszka
Great-grandmother - naimat
Grandson - vojak / vojakko
Great-grandson - pravojak
Granddaughter - voika / vojiszka
Great-granddaughter - pravoika

Husband - dõv, dõvar
Wife - dõvaczka
Godfather - patrko
Godmother - matrka
Godson - sniuc
Goddaughter - dojuc
Blood-Brother - bratusy

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:54 am 
Niš
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TomHChappell wrote:
Interesting and complicated! Thanks.
You say most births are twin-births; are most twin-pairs identical? If not, are most same-sex?



I'm sorry I did not explain this better, really, I have no idea why I did not include the answers to your questions. So here they are . . .

Twin births occur about 90 - 95% percent of the time among the Yot. Of these births about 60% are non-identical (with an even split between same sex and different sex twins). 40% of births result in identical twins with there being no real difference in the rate of female or male sets.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:09 am 
Sanci
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Hmm, I'm very surprised this isn't more common;
In my language, kinterms are defined based on gender of the speaker, rather than gender of the relative. This comes from the clan system, where their first last name is their shotar's primary clan, and their second last name is their katang's primary clan. This serves primarily as a way to protect the genepool, since they're not allowed to mate within their clans, it's not perfect, but it works to a certain extent.
So the kinterms are as follows:
Rara-Parent of same gender
Tikâ-Parent of opposite gender
Shotar-Grandparent of same gender, rara side
Kinâ-Grandparent of opposite gender, rara side
Katang-Grandparent of opposite gender, tikâ side
Ngora-Grandparent of same gender, tikâ side
Fara-Opposite gender sibling
Fuika-Same gender sibling
Fanta-Aunt/uncle or same gender(regardless of parent's side)
Pokua-Aunt/uncle of opposite gender
Pomo-Opposite gender cousin
Shokku-Same gender cousin
Mochi-Primary clanmate
Papi-Secondary clanmate

Anything farther is formed by lasha-chuti which means "far person" literally, and is primarily used for discussing relatives, although it could be used to describe a person that is physically far away.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:19 am 
Avisaru
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Menniszpest wrote:
[formal / informal/familiar]
Father - polec / popo, popko
Mother - mat / mama, matka, matuszka
Older Brother - (véle/najstærne) bræt / razbrat, bræcko
Older Sister - (véla/najstærna) séstra / siszka, braczka
Younger Brother - (viedze/najdúpe) bræt / bræcko
Younger Sister - (viedza/najdúpa) séstra / siszka, braczka
Son - syn / décko
Daughter - doicz / doszka
Grandfather - stærne polec / dédko
Great-grandfather - naipolec
Grandmother - stærna mat / babszka
Great-grandmother - naimat
Grandson - vojak / vojakko
Great-grandson - pravojak
Granddaughter - voika / vojiszka
Great-granddaughter - pravoika

Husband - dõv, dõvar
Wife - dõvaczka
Godfather - patrko
Godmother - matrka
Godson - sniuc
Goddaughter - dojuc
Blood-Brother - bratusy

Nice!
Which conlang? Is it a Slaviconlang?

Ar Ahlotsaensar wrote:
Twin births occur about 90 - 95% percent of the time among the Yot. Of these births about 60% are non-identical (with an even split between same sex and different sex twins). 40% of births result in identical twins with there being no real difference in the rate of female or male sets.

Thanks.

tsulaokiw wrote:
Hmm, I'm very surprised this isn't more common;
In my language, kinterms are defined based on gender of the speaker, rather than gender of the relative. This comes from the clan system, where their first last name is their shotar's primary clan, and their second last name is their katang's primary clan. This serves primarily as a way to protect the genepool, since they're not allowed to mate within their clans, it's not perfect, but it works to a certain extent.
So the kinterms are as follows:
Rara-Parent of same gender
Tikâ-Parent of opposite gender
Shotar-Grandparent of same gender, rara side
Kinâ-Grandparent of opposite gender, rara side
Katang-Grandparent of opposite gender, tikâ side
Ngora-Grandparent of same gender, tikâ side
Fara-Opposite gender sibling
Fuika-Same gender sibling
Fanta-Aunt/uncle or same gender(regardless of parent's side)
Pokua-Aunt/uncle of opposite gender
Pomo-Opposite gender cousin
Shokku-Same gender cousin
Mochi-Primary clanmate
Papi-Secondary clanmate

It would seem, to me, that such a system would make sense in those societies that use "the Rope" -- that kind of unilineal descent group in which each person inherits membership from the parent of the opposite sex (what your conlang calls "Tikâ"). But, in fact, I do not know of any natlang which uses words like your "Tikâ" and "Rara".

However I remember reading of some natlangs that have words like your "Fara-Opposite gender sibling" and "Fuika-Same gender sibling". I'm sorry I can't remember what they are or where they are. I have a feeling one or more is North African, and one or more is North Indian or South Central Asian. If I remember right, one of them has four words for siblings, with the following meanings:
Older sibling of same gender
Older sibling of opposite gender
Younger sibling of same gender
Younger sibling of opposite gender.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:39 pm 
Avisaru
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TomHChappell wrote:
Simon Clarkstone's Kigdatsi:
simon.clarkstone wrote:
Well, The Kigdatsi are all hermaphrodites, and normal mating will produce what I call "anti-twins", i.e. two individuals that are conceived, born, and hatch at the same time, but each's mother is the other's father. Abusing "son", "daughter", "brother", and "sister" as above is just confusing, it would be better to invent some native terms, or maybe try to translate the historical roots the native terms come from, to produce (e.g.) "supater", "sumater", "copater", and "comater" respectively, which are reasonably mnemonic.
Combining, you get things like "anti-copater" meaning someone who shares one parent with you: their mother is your father.
And that's just the biological relationships. Fortunately for the Kigdatsi they lack our sort of marrige, and have "composition" in their language which is good for dealing with such things.

Anticipating Simon's permission I've posted this to the "kinterms" thread.
If Simon doesn't want it here, I'll delete it.

Simon replied:
simon.clarkstone wrote:
Yes, that's fine. Note that I made those terms up on the spot, they are not the Kigdatsi terms. The actual Kigdatsi language expresses the concepts by composing predicates, or rather will once I get round to working on it. (Having some Englishy words will help me think about such things and/or make notes though.)


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:43 am 
Niš
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TomHChappell wrote:
Menniszpest wrote:
[formal / informal/familiar]
Father - polec / popo, popko
Mother - mat / mama, matka, matuszka
Older Brother - (véle/najstærne) bræt / razbrat, bræcko
Older Sister - (véla/najstærna) séstra / siszka, braczka
Younger Brother - (viedze/najdúpe) bræt / bræcko
Younger Sister - (viedza/najdúpa) séstra / siszka, braczka
Son - syn / décko
Daughter - doicz / doszka
Grandfather - stærne polec / dédko
Great-grandfather - naipolec
Grandmother - stærna mat / babszka
Great-grandmother - naimat
Grandson - vojak / vojakko
Great-grandson - pravojak
Granddaughter - voika / vojiszka
Great-granddaughter - pravoika

Husband - dõv, dõvar
Wife - dõvaczka
Godfather - patrko
Godmother - matrka
Godson - sniuc
Goddaughter - dojuc
Blood-Brother - bratusy

Nice!
Which conlang? Is it a Slaviconlang?


Thanks.
It's Niemsko. It's a mix, a Slavo-Germanic lang (with some influences of Uralic languages + Italian/Portuguese + my mind's creativity), but mostly Slavic, yeah.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:27 pm 
Avisaru
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Menniszpest wrote:
TomHChappell wrote:
Nice! Which conlang? Is it a Slaviconlang?
Thanks. It's Niemsko. It's a mix, a Slavo-Germanic lang (with some influences of Uralic languages + Italian/Portuguese + my mind's creativity), but mostly Slavic, yeah.
Thanks, Menniszpest.

Sano wrote:
Ilya:

man -- muj
woman -- jena
Mr., sir, gentleman... -- hera
Mrs., Miss, Ms., ma'am, lady... -- dema

name -- nom
person -- aren

family -- zudra
father -- badra, baba
mother -- madra, mama
brother -- bruda
sister -- kuyura
boy -- namja
son -- ben
girl -- noya
daughter -- dukra
aunt -- yima
uncle -- sateno
niece -- nebod
nephew -- yegen
grandfather -- oba
grandmother -- oma
cousin -- kuzen

husband -- otosh
wife -- ha`amu
marriage -- shadi
divorce -- erota
in-law -- gibu-

baby -- tejba
child -- anak
teenager -- anaku
adult -- doros
Thanks, Sano.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:44 am 
Niš
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Posts: 4
Code:
--- genetic kin ---
Father- ekti
Mother- ác'ta
Older Brother- edos ešto (edešto
Older Sister- edos asti (edasti)
Younger Brother- eteôs ešto (etešto
Younger Sister- eteôs asti (etasti)
Son- icto
Daughter- ec'da

--- fictive kin ---
Husband- aekt
Wife- eoc'di


All of these words were derived from the root *āk'het, meaning "a member of a family or clan".

EDIT: further delving reveals an ultimate "translation"- *āk'het=blood. cf. the derivative term iktir of the same meaning

ANOTHER EDIT: Below is a chart with the recently "discovered" Eastern Cénárol cognates of the above terms.

Code:
--- genetic kin ---
Father- haekte
Mother- cákte
Older Brother- edon štesto
Older Sister- edo saza
Younger Brother- eton štesto
Younger Sister- eton saza
Son- hiket
Daughter- heokt

--- fictive kin ---
Husband- hakta
Wife- káta

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:12 pm 
Niš
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Posts: 11
Location: USA-Arizona
Sorry to drag up this old post, but I just finish most of my kinterms....exciting stuff:

--- genetic kin ---
fatru father
fafatru father's father(grandfather)
fafa father's father (grandpa)
famatra father's mother (grandmother)
fama father's mother (grandma)
fatraju fatherhood
fatre father-like
nifatre fatherless
befatru father-in-law
fatrin to father
fabatru father's sister (aunt)
fasatra father's brother (uncle)
matra mother
ma mom
matriza mommy
mamatra mother's mother (grandmother)
mama mother's mother (grandma)
mafatru mother's father (grandfather)
mafa mother's father(grandpa)
matraja motherhood
matre mother-like
nimatra motherless
nimatreka motherlessness
matrin to mother
bematra mother-in-law
mabatru mother's brother (uncle)
masatra mother's sister (aunt)
kèsenu cousin (male)
kèsena cousin (female)
sasenu sister's son (nephew)
sadatra sister's daughter (neice)
basenu brother's son (nephew)
badatra brother's daughter (neice)
senu son
datra daughter
besatra sister-in-law
bebatru brother-in-law
satra sister
batru brother
pesibel sibling

--- fictive kin ---
nesàbu widow
nikefa widower
esàbu husband
kefa wife
pesùs spouse[/b]


Last edited by EilisRen on Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:47 pm 
Avisaru
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Posts: 807
mavonduri wrote:
Code:
--- genetic kin ---
Father- ekti
Mother- ác'ta
Older Brother- edos ešto (edešto
Older Sister- edos asti (edasti)
Younger Brother- eteôs ešto (etešto
Younger Sister- eteôs asti (etasti)
Son- icto
Daughter- ec'da

--- fictive kin ---
Husband- aekt
Wife- eoc'di


All of these words were derived from the root *āk'het, meaning "a member of a family or clan".

EDIT: further delving reveals an ultimate "translation"- *āk'het=blood. cf. the derivative term iktir of the same meaning

ANOTHER EDIT: Below is a chart with the recently "discovered" Eastern Cénárol cognates of the above terms.

Code:
--- genetic kin ---
Father- haekte
Mother- cákte
Older Brother- edon štesto
Older Sister- edo saza
Younger Brother- eton štesto
Younger Sister- eton saza
Son- hiket
Daughter- heokt

--- fictive kin ---
Husband- hakta
Wife- káta
Thanks, mavonduri. Which conlang was the first set in -- Northern or Southern or Western Cénárol, perhaps?

KetziaNaren wrote:
Sorry to drag up this old post,
I sure don't mind! In fact, I appreciate it --- thanks! :D
KetziaNaren wrote:
but I just finish most of my kinterms....exciting stuff:

--- genetic kin ---
fatru father
fa dad
fatrizu daddy
fafatru father's father(grandfather)
fafa father's father (grandpa)
famatra father's mother (grandmother)
fama father's mother (grandma)
fatraju fatherhood
fatre father-like
nifatre fatherless
befatru father-in-law
fatrin to father
fabatru father's sister (aunt)
fasatra father's brother (uncle)
matra mother
ma mom
matriza mommy
mamatra mother's mother (grandmother)
mama mother's mother (grandma)
mafatru mother's father (grandfather)
mafa mother's father(grandpa)
matraja motherhood
matre mother-like
nimatra motherless
nimatreka motherlessness
matrin to mother
bematra mother-in-law
mabatru mother's brother (uncle)
masatra mother's sister (aunt)
kèsenu cousin (male)
kèsena cousin (female)
sasenu sister's son (nephew)
sadatra sister's daughter (neice)
basenu brother's son (nephew)
badatra brother's daughter (neice)
senu son
datra daughter
besatra sister-in-law
bebatru brother-in-law
satra sister
batru brother
pesibel sibling

--- fictive kin ---
nesàbu widow
nikefa widower
esàbu husband
kefa wife
pesùs spouse
Cool! 8) What's the name of this conlang, again? Is it supposed to be a descendant of English? or some alternate-history's version of English? Or some kind of lost-lang "sister language" of English?
Thanks.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:27 pm 
Niš
Niš

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Posts: 11
Location: USA-Arizona
My conlang is Namaran (and no Janko I don't have the numbers yet. :P ) It is largely based on german, macedonian and hebrew. Does it look too englishy? I hope not. Perhaps if I threw in the pronunciation? Hmmmm.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:33 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 2:58 pm
Posts: 807
KetziaNaren wrote:
My conlang is Namaran
Thanks.
KetziaNaren wrote:
It is largely based on german, macedonian and hebrew.
Maybe it's the German part that makes it look "Englishy".
KetziaNaren wrote:
Does it look too englishy?
Don't know about "too". Also haven't examined the rest of your lexicon. But the terms related to "father", "mother", "brother", "sister", "sibling", and to some degree "spouse", seem quite Englishy, though (1)perhaps that's because of the German and (2) "quite" != "too".
KetziaNaren wrote:
Perhaps if I threw in the pronunciation?
Maybe that would help -- I won't know unless and until you try (and maybe not even then!).


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:41 pm 
Niš
Niš

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 1:20 pm
Posts: 11
Location: USA-Arizona
TomHChappell wrote:
KetziaNaren wrote:
My conlang is Namaran
Thanks.
KetziaNaren wrote:
It is largely based on german, macedonian and hebrew.
Maybe it's the German part that makes it look "Englishy".
KetziaNaren wrote:
Does it look too englishy?
Don't know about "too". Also haven't examined the rest of your lexicon. But the terms related to "father", "mother", "brother", "sister", "sibling", and to some degree "spouse", seem quite Englishy, though (1)perhaps that's because of the German and (2) "quite" != "too".
KetziaNaren wrote:
Perhaps if I threw in the pronunciation?
Maybe that would help -- I won't know unless and until you try (and maybe not even then!).


I might do that later. I based alot of it on german....I just can't stop myself.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:22 pm 
Niš
Niš

Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:59 am
Posts: 4
TomHChappell wrote:
mavonduri wrote:
Code:
--- genetic kin ---
Father- ekti
Mother- ác'ta
Older Brother- edos ešto (edešto
Older Sister- edos asti (edasti)
Younger Brother- eteôs ešto (etešto
Younger Sister- eteôs asti (etasti)
Son- icto
Daughter- ec'da

--- fictive kin ---
Husband- aekt
Wife- eoc'di


All of these words were derived from the root *āk'het, meaning "a member of a family or clan".

EDIT: further delving reveals an ultimate "translation"- *āk'het=blood. cf. the derivative term iktir of the same meaning

ANOTHER EDIT: Below is a chart with the recently "discovered" Eastern Cénárol cognates of the above terms.

Code:
--- genetic kin ---
Father- haekte
Mother- cákte
Older Brother- edon štesto
Older Sister- edo saza
Younger Brother- eton štesto
Younger Sister- eton saza
Son- hiket
Daughter- heokt

--- fictive kin ---
Husband- hakta
Wife- káta
Thanks, mavonduri. Which conlang was the first set in -- Northern or Southern or Western Cénárol, perhaps?[quote]

the first is Western, the second is Eastern. there is no Northern or Southern

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:45 pm 
Sanci
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Location: Bratislava, Slovakia, originally: Funningur, Faroe Islands
Since natlangs are in the topic name I'll add the Faroese ones:

--- genetic kin ---
Father - faðir(*) / pápi / babba
Mother - móðir* / mamma
Older Brother - stóribeiggi
Older Sister - stórasystir*
Younger Brother - lítlibeiggi
Younger Sister - lítlasystir*
Son - sonur
Daughter - dóttir*
--- fictive kin ---
Husband - maður
Wife - kona (old. vív)
Godfather - guðfaðir(*) (gubbi)
Godmother - guðmóðir* (gumma)
Godson - guðsonur
Goddaughter - guðdóttir*
Blood-Brother - blóðbróðir*

The words with * have a special conjugation pattern called the kinship pattern in Faroese:

Ns. móðir, systir, bróðir, dóttir
As. móður, systur, bróður, dóttur
Ds. móður, systur, bróður, dóttur
Gs. móður, systur, bróður, dóttur

Np. møður, systrar, brøður, døtur
Ap. møður, systrar, brøður, døtur
Gs. møðrum, systrum, brøðrum, døtrum
Ds. møðra, systra, brøðra, døtra

Also belonging to this group are the words fastir and mostir (conctractions of faðirsystir (father-sister) and móðirsystir (mother-sister))

(*) have a special conjugation. The form on the left is newer and in use today. The one on the right is considered archaic, but is AFAIK the form Icelandic uses. The plural forms are identical though:

Ns. faðir, faðir
As. faðir, føður
Ds. faðiri, føður
Gs. faðirs, føður

Np. fedrar
Ap. fedrar
Dp. fedrum
Gs. fedra

There's no unified word for neither 'uncle' nor 'aunt', which makes translating these words into Faroese hard.

Guðfaðir and guðmóðir are hardly ever used in Faroese, since the retracted forms 'gubbi' and 'gumma' are much more common.

Also used in Faroese, but not in this table are:

systkinabarn = cousin (same word for both genders)
trímenningur = a person with whom you share a great-grandfather
fermenningur = a person with whom you share a great-great-grandfather

If you share an even older ancestor, you say that you are of 5+th generation ('vit eru fimta lið' = we are fifth 'joint' (of a chain))

If, for instance, you're 'trímenningur' with a person's grandparent, you can say, that you two are 'triðji og fimti' (3rd and 5th).

And that's all I can remember right now. Faroese has a lot of these terms.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:04 am 
Niš
Niš

Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:05 pm
Posts: 1
Location: Northern Silennia
In the spellcaster languages of Ilussel, there are no kinterms. Wizards and mages, because of the nature of how they are raised, never know the two spellcasters who would be consideed parents. The closest thing they have to a parental unit is their mentor that takes them from "birth" of their flower to wizardship, but I have yet to develop the common language of the spellcasters, and thus there is no word for it.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:49 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 2:58 pm
Posts: 807
Has anyone else seen the thread on this board that has terms for pairs of people related in a certain way? "Mother-and-daughter" or "father-and-son" or, I suppose, "brother-and-sister" or "husband-and-wife"?

It's in L&L, titled "mother and daughter", I think, and this might be the URL for it.


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 2:58 pm 
Lebom
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Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:05 pm
Posts: 164
Updated Ilya

People -- Alyudem

man -- muj
woman -- jena
Mr., sir, gentleman... -- aban
Mrs., Miss, Ms., ma'am, lady... -- enam

name -- nom
person -- alyud

family -- zudra
father -- badra | baba
mother -- madra | mama
brother -- bruda
sister -- sora
boy, son -- ben
girl, daughter -- iha
aunt -- yenga
uncle -- oji
niece, nephew -- nebok
grandfather -- oba
grandmother -- oma
cousin -- inamu

husband -- zahuj
wife -- tsuma
marriage -- jehun
divorce -- erota
in-law -- ...giri

baby -- ona`a
child -- alad
teenager -- etahun
adult -- megra
friend -- amiq
enemy -- nadas

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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 3:27 pm 
Niš
Niš

Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 10:14 pm
Posts: 2
opnaskú:

father-taten
mother-mattú
brother-jačtalri
sister-strojfa
son-zan
daughter-detiri
grandfather-tateþim(formal), tatim
grandmother-mattúþif(formal), mattif

husband-fuðkuri
wife-inglevúr
blood-brother-dagdažina

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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 9:37 pm 
Lebom
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Location: The Land of Boingies Wapo Gipo Mi Mi Mi! n_n
Käläli:

Mother - ilešiba

Father - ilešiwa

Daughter - ilešibä

Son - ilešiwä

Sister - iblešiba

Brother - iblešiwa

Niece - iblešibä

Nephew - iblešiwä

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Last edited by Serali on Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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