Online Classical Nahuatl texts

[¡Papapishu!]

EDIT: I'm just going to consolidate this into a big list of all the online Nahuatl resources I've found.

• Grammaire de la langue Nahuatl ou Mexicaine, Rémi Siméon's 1875 edition of Andrés de Olmos's 1547 Arte para aprender la lengua mexicana. The earliest known Nahuatl grammar.
• Aqui comiença un vocabulario en la lengua Castellana y Mexicana (1555) by Alonso de Molina.
• Confessionario breue, en lengua Mexicana y Castellana (1565) by Alonso de Molina.
• Confessionario mayor, en la lengua Mexicana y Castellana (1565) by Alonso de Molina.
• Doctrina Christiana breue y compendiosa por via de dialogo entre vn maestro y vn discipulo, sacada en lengua castellana y mexicana (1565) by Domingo de la Anunciacion.
• Arte de la lengua Mexicana y Castellana (1571) by Alonso de Molina.
• Colloquios de la paz, y tranquilidad Christiana, en lengua Mexicana (1582) by Juan de Gaona.
• Arte mexicana (1885) [originally 1595] by Antonio del Rincón.
• Confesionario en lengua Mexicana y Castellana (1599) by Ioan Baptista.
• Yntemoca yntlacamecayo, yn tlahtoque yn teteuhctin yn ompa tlaca ypan altepetl culhuacan/The Descent and Lineage of the Kings and Lords of Culhuacan (early 1600s)
• Vocabulario manual de las lenguas Castellana y Mexicana (1793) [originally pre-1611] by Pedro de Arenas.
• Arte de la lengua Mexicana con la declaracion de los adverbios della (1645) by Horacio Carochi. The most important Nahuatl grammar.
• Arte de lengua mexicana (1673) by Agustin de Vetancurt.
• Arte de la lengua Mexicana (1716) [originally 1689] by Antonio Vazquez Gastelu.
• Arte de la lengua Mexicana (1754) by Joseph Augustin de Aldáma y Guevára.
• Promptuario manual mexicano (1759) by Ignacio de Paredes.
• Arte de la lengua Mexicana (1810) by Rafael Sandoval.
• Guide de la conversation en trois langues: français, espagnol et mexicain (1862) by M. Charles Romey. French translation of Pedro de Arenas' Vocabulario manual.
• Ancient Nahuatl Poetry (1890) by Daniel G. Brinton.
• Rig Veda Americanus (1890) by Daniel G. Brinton.
• An Analytical Dictionary of Nahuatl (1983) by Frances Karttunen.
• Catégories et opérations dans la grammaire Nahuatl (1986) by Michel Launey.
• Nahuatl as Written (2002) by James Lockhart.
• Dictionnaire de la langue Nahuatl Classique (2006) by Alexis Wimmer. The most thorough dictionary I've seen.
• Early Nahuatl Virtual Library Project

Downloading An Analytical Dictionary of Nahuatl or Nahuatl as Written probably counts as piracy, so stay away from those if you're not into that sort of thing.

[Radagast]

Great!

[Ketumak]

Yeah, it should be preserved somewhere, this is good. I'd like to look over Nahuatl and get ideas from it, rather than learn it and even within those limits I've had trouble finding sources. Thanks

[dunomapuka]

Thanks for these. I'm plowing through those last two, with amoral delight.

[nebula wind phone]

"American Rig Veda," eh? Cute. I'll have to check some of these out when I get home.

[Neek]

This definitely needs to saved for posterity. Do note, Nahuatl as Written is a recent--and fairly inexpensive--print. I just checked Amazon, and the book's only around 30 dollars (with some 10 dollar discount or something, so 20 as of this moment).

[Trebor]

Could someone please give a bit of detail as to what the contents of the last two files are before I do anything with them? (I have my reasons, but I don't feel like boring all of you with them.)

[Xephyr]

Could someone please give a bit of detail as to what the contents of the last two files are before I do anything with them? (I have my reasons, but I don't feel like boring all of you with them.)

Nahuatl As Written is a grammar course book. The Dictionary one is.. well.. a Nahuatl-to-English dictionary. Really boring, especially if you don't know Nahuatl.

[marconatrix]

Could someone please give a bit of detail as to what the contents of the last two files are before I do anything with them? (I have my reasons, but I don't feel like boring all of you with them.)

Nahuatl As Written is a grammar course book. The Dictionary one is.. well.. a Nahuatl-to-English dictionary. Really boring, especially if you don't know Nahuatl.

I've downloaded Nahuatl As Written and it's kept me amused for a few days. Intended I think for historians who need to figure out legal documents written in N. so concentrates on figuring out texts rather than being able to produce the language. Interesting approach though. Just a pity he doesn't explain the phonology and spelling right at the start. Near the end he discusses Spanish loans into N. which is interesting in itself (and gives most of the phonology in passing), also a run down on the available dictionaries, also an extensive vocabulary with all the grammatical info. And the long vowels and glo'al stops shown.

Q. Why do linguists thinks it smart to omit vowel length and glottal stops from Amerindian and Oceanic langs, which I think is a real wind-up for learners.

Q. He says Nahuatl ceased to be written, but apparently is still spoken. Seems odd, how? why? Usually if a language is written then it's relatively safe.

Q. Did these guys write anything more interesting than wills?

Marconatrix

[¡Papapishu!]

Q. Did these guys write anything more interesting than wills?

Why yes. For example, I posted an analysis of a description of human sacrifice in Nahuatl from the Primeros Memoriales over on Studylangs.

[Radagast]

Q. Why do linguists thinks it smart to omit vowel length and glottal stops from Amerindian and Oceanic langs, which I think is a real wind-up for learners.

Q. He says Nahuatl ceased to be written, but apparently is still spoken. Seems odd, how? why? Usually if a language is written then it's relatively safe.

Q. Did these guys write anything more interesting than wills?

A: They don't. the people writing nahuatl back then weren't linguists for the most part but missionaries who spoke spanish and latin which doesn't have or mark those distinctions. They simply didn't hear them or didn't have a clue about how to write them. As for the other langauges I have no idea why some linguists still thing some phonemes are too exotic to be allowed to make it into writing.

A:In the first twohundred years of Mexico's colonial history nahuatl was a de facto second official language of Mexico. And people were educated to write in nahuatl. In 1696 however the speaking and writing of all indigenous languages in public was banned by Carlos II of spain. That reversed the situation and started the hispanization of latin america for real and began the decimation of indigenous languages. I have read original documents I found in an archive in a mexican convent stating that the friars should punish indians they heard speaking nahuatl with 40 lashes and burn any documents written in the language. Thats how you end a tradition of literacy.

A: Oh yes. They wrote poetry, histories of peoples and places, landclaims, histories of noble lineages, myths and legends, petitions to authorities.


PAPISHU!: If you were here I would give you a kiss right on the face for posting Launeys Thesis!

[marconatrix]

Q. Did these guys write anything more interesting than wills?

Why yes. For example, I posted an analysis of a description of human sacrifice in Nahuatl from the Primeros Memoriales over on Studylangs.

Err, yes, just the thing to read before breakfast

You've finally given me the push I needed to register over on studylangs though, so thanks for that. I've gone through a lot of the sentences you posted, and much to my surprise, most of the words and quite a few of the phrases are in the vocab at the end of Nahuatl As Written. So despite it's somewhat odd method of presentation, I don't regret downloading it.

I think the text you referred to above needs a "health warning", how about :

Topilhuane i:mcha:ntzinco ini:n ma:caya:c xicte:chi:huilica:n !!

Does that makes any sense to you?

[marconatrix]

Q. Why do linguists thinks it smart to omit vowel length and glottal stops from Amerindian and Oceanic langs, which I think is a real wind-up for learners.

Q. He says Nahuatl ceased to be written, but apparently is still spoken. Seems odd, how? why? Usually if a language is written then it's relatively safe.

Q. Did these guys write anything more interesting than wills?

A: They don't. the people writing nahuatl back then weren't linguists for the most part but missionaries who spoke spanish and latin which doesn't have or mark those distinctions. They simply didn't hear them or didn't have a clue about how to write them. As for the other langauges I have no idea why some linguists still thing some phonemes are too exotic to be allowed to make it into writing.

Yes but books for learners need to put them in, otherwise the writer seems to be saying, "well I know where they all go!" which kinda gives the beginner an inferiority complex right at the start. I do understand that where a language is mainly written by fluent speakers, they often find all the linguists' "bells and whistles" a bit of a pain, since they do know how to speak the language, and only need enough clues in the spelling to be able to recognise the words in context. They don't need pronunciation instructions. However where languages have nearly died out and are being brought back (e.g. where they've skipped a generation or two) incomplete orthographies can lead to a lot of bad pronunciation.

A:In the first twohundred years of Mexico's colonial history nahuatl was a de facto second official language of Mexico. And people were educated to write in nahuatl. In 1696 however the speaking and writing of all indigenous languages in public was banned by Carlos II of spain. That reversed the situation and started the hispanization of latin america for real and began the decimation of indigenous languages. I have read original documents I found in an archive in a mexican convent stating that the friars should punish indians they heard speaking nahuatl with 40 lashes and burn any documents written in the language. Thats how you end a tradition of literacy.

Gu dearbh fhein! Thanks for this information. I really hadn't realised that any native american language had had a substantial literary tradition (Cherokee aside). The impression I've got is that generally literacy by missionaries was mostly seen as a half-way house to speaking and writing the dominant lang. and that where it was practiced, it usually kept to the (christian) religious domain. Otherwise writing was generally in the dominant language (true in parts of europe too, and elsewhere).

Was Nahuatl exceptional, or were/are there other langs like it (presumably in central and south america)?

A: Oh yes. They wrote poetry, histories of peoples and places, landclaims, histories of noble lineages, myths and legends, petitions to authorities.

Yes, I should have looked round a bit first, shouldn't I

Thanks again!

[Radagast]

Was Nahuatl exceptional, or were/are there other langs like it (presumably in central and south america)?

There were literary traditions although with corpora considerably smaller than for nahuatl in a number of mesoamerican languages including Mayan langauges such as Yucatec, K'iche', Kaqchikel, Tzeltal, P'urhépecha, Totonac, Zoque, Otomi, Zapotec, Mixtec, and others. Many of these have grammars written in early colonial times and a number of letters, titles, testaments, and even mythological documents written in them.

[marconatrix]

At http://nah.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usuario%3AAkapochtli I found :

A:quin Nehhua:tl

Notechpa ze tepitzin: Onitlakat ipan Guadalajara, Xalixko. Ye ixkichka zempowalli xiwitl onitlahtoh nawatlahtolli. No iwan nikimmachtia tokualnezcatlahtol intech miyakintin tlakah. Nikmati in Mazewalcopa in nemih mexikah ipan Guerrero, ipan Milpa Alta, ipan Cuextecapan. Ka nehwatl ompa oninen. Oninomachtih in ye wehcaw nemiliztlahtollotl. Zan ye iw onikchiw se Tlahtoltekpantiliztli itechpa tlahtolchiwaliztli, no miyak onikihkuiloh ilwikamatiliztli, teoyotl iwan mexikatl itlatzimpewaliz.

Intla tinechnotzazneki xinechihkuilo: akapochtli@yahoo.com.mx. Ahnozo no nikan ipan ixnamikiliztli (discusión).

Which I was surprised to find I could partly translate, so I think it means :

"Who am I? A little bit about me. I was born in Guadalajara, in Xalix. That is to say, all my life ('years') I have spoken the Nahuatl language. Nor(??) in addition I teach our excellent language to them [miyaquintin?] full time/in the daytime/some days (?). I know the popular traditions of those who live (speak?) Me:xihcah in G., MA and C. I used to live there. I have been learning for a long time the living traditions. (Something like 'I have already been doing it for scores of years??) ..."

Can anyone check this, or complete it? Or tell me I've got it all wrong

(They seem to have a spelling war going on too, I feel quite at home )

[¡Papapishu!]

My attempt:

Who am I?

A little about me: I was born in Guadalajara, Jalisco. I have spoken Nahuatl for twenty years. Also I teach our beautiful language to many people. I know the dialect(s) of the Mexicans living in Guerrero, in Mila Alta, and in Cuextecapan. I live there. I have learned the now distant (life-speaking-ness?). Similarly(?) I have made an article(?) about producing speech(?), and I have written much religious information, spirituality and the (tlatzim-beginning?) of the Mexican.

If you want to talk to me, write to me: (email). Or alternatively here on the talk page.

[marconatrix]

My attempt:

Who am I?

A little about me: I was born in Guadalajara, Jalisco. I have spoken Nahuatl for twenty years. Also I teach our beautiful language to many people. I know the dialect(s) of the Mexicans living in Guerrero, in Mila Alta, and in Cuextecapan. I live there. I have learned the now distant (life-speaking-ness?). Similarly(?) I have made an article(?) about producing speech(?), and I have written much religious information, spirituality and the (tlatzim-beginning?) of the Mexican.

If you want to talk to me, write to me: (email). Or alternatively here on the talk page.

Thanks! It's nice to know I wasn't too far off the track. There seem to be a lot of on-line resources, I'm quite impressed. Perhaps you should add these to your list :

A site for beginners with good grammar summary, basic lessons and some interpreted texts :

http://weber.ucsd.edu/~dkjordan/nahuatl/nahuatl.html

An on-line version of one of the big dictionaries, also with a detailed grammar summary, in French however :

http://sites.estvideo.net/malinal/nahuatl.page.html

[¡Papapishu!]

An on-line version of one of the big dictionaries, also with a detailed grammar summary, in French however :

http://sites.estvideo.net/malinal/nahuatl.page.html

Already got it.

[Circeus]

For the record, there's a published, more easily accessible version of Launey's thesis in the form of a "Nahuatl as a foreign language" book. It,s a 2-volume books with exercises and texts: Introduction à la langue et à la littérature aztèques. It's also the source of some, if not most grammatical material from the Wimmer website.

[¡Papapishu!]

Introduction à la langue et à la littérature aztèques

I see you copied that from WorldCat. What is with that site and combining diacritics?

[Circeus]

Introduction à la langue et à la littérature aztèques

I see you copied that from WorldCat. What is with that site and combining diacritics?

Next time I'll retype it separately

[Tarasoriku]

http://www.sil.org/americas/mexico/nahu ... st-nhx.pdf

I found this to add.