How your idiolect differs from the standard language

[Whimemsz]

does it even have the { > e@ / _(m n) shift? because that's pretty much universal in america as far as I know

Yes, it has it.

?????????

I must be seriously misunderstanding something. I don't do this, and I don't know of anyone, local or not, who does.

See here. It's pretty common in North American English, though I don't have it (less common, and part of the Northern Cities Vowel Shift, is the change { > e@ in all environments)

[Jipí]

I had nothing better to do during the last 1½ days without internet...

I grew up in the Waldeck region in Northern Hesse, Germany, which is just north of the Benrath line historically. My dad is from there, my mother grew up in the southwesternmost tip of Germany (yeah, Alemannic), however her parents are from the Ruhr area. That way I don't think I have a too distinct dialect, other than more or less "generic North-of-Weißwurstäquator". Here are my notes:

Code: Select all

- Basic sound inventory (in native words, same as Standard):

     p t k p͡f t͡s k͡s b d g m n ŋ f v s z ʃ ç x~χ ʁ h l j (ʔ)
     iː ɪ yː ʏ eː ɛː ɛ øː œ ə ɐ äː ɑ̈ oː ɔ uː ʊ
     ɑe ɔʏ ɑo

     p, t, k → pʰ, tʰ, kʰ / _ UNLESS s_, ʃ_, _#
     b, d, g → p, t, k / _#
     r → ʁ / _V; r → ɐ / V_
     s → ʃ / #_t, #_p (basically, German had #_C)

- Apocope of final -ə in 1SG PRES IND (very common)

- p͡f → f / #_

     Pfanne p͡fɑnə   → fɑnə 'pan'
     Pferd p͡fɛɐd    → fɛɐt 'horse'
     Pforte p͡fɔɐtə  → fɔɐtə 'portal'
     Pfote p͡foːtə   → foːtə 'paw'
     Pfütze p͡fʏt͡sə → fʏt͡sə 'puddle'

- ç/ʃ distinct

- ɑɐ → aː (also e.g. fahren faːʁən → faːn 'to drive, to go by (vehicle)')

- ɛː-eː merger (in very casual speech)

- iːɐ → ɪɐ /_ UNLESS _#

     Hirn hɪɐn 'brain'
     Kirche kɪɐçə 'church'
     Kirsche kɪɐʃə 'cherry'
     Pfirsich fɪɐzɪç 'peach'
     vierter fɪɐtɐ 'fourth'
     vierzig fɪɐt͡sɪç 'forty'

     hier hiːɐ 'here'
     mir miːɐ 'to/for me'
     vier fiːɐ 'four'
     wir viːɐ 'we'

- l → j / _ç (passim)

     solche zɔlçə → zɔjçə (→ zɔʏçə?) 'such'
     welche vɛlçə → vɛjçə 'which'

     Probably only in those two common words

- mal maːl 'times, once' → maː (BUT Mahl maːl 'meal')

- Shortening of vowels in stressed syllables in very casual language (passim)

     es gibt ɛs giːpt  → əs gɪpt 'there is'
     Fahrrad faːʁaːt   → fɑʁɑt 'bicycle'
     Krümel kʁyːml̩     → kʁʏml̩ 'crumb'
     liegt liːkt       → lɪçt 'lies'
     Rad raːt          → rɑt 'wheel'
     rüber ʁyːbɐ       → ʁʏbɐ 'to over here/there'
     Tag taːk          → tɑχ 'day'
     Vater faːtɐ       → fɑtɐ 'father'

- final g acts like x (passim)

     Berg bɛɐk  → bɛɐç 'moutain'
     Tag taːk   → tɑχ 'day'
     Weg veːk   → veːç 'way'
     Zug t͡suːk → t͡sʊχ 'train, draught'
     -ig        → -ɪç

- division of da+preposition

     davon wusste ich nichts 'I didn't know about that'
     → da hab ich nix von gewusst

     darüber sprechen wir nicht 'We don't talk about that'
     → da sprechmer nich drüber

- preposition + article fusing

                der*       die*       das        den        dem
                
     an         anner      anne       [ans]      an'n       [am]
     auf        aufer      aufe       [aufs]     auf'n      auf'm
     außer                            außer's    außer'n    außer'm
     bei                              bei's      bei'n      [beim]
     in         inner      inne       [ins]      in'n       [im]
     ohne                             ohne's     ohne'n     ohne'm
     mit        mitter                           mit'n      mit'm
     vor                              vor's      vor'n      [vorm]
     zu         [zur]                            zu'n       [zum]
     
     Those occuring in the standard language are bracketed out.
     
     *) cliticizing only in very casual speech except for those marked Standard, otherwise:

           der → dɐ
           die → də

- verb + pronoun:

     2sg    du  → -ə  (machste 'do/make', haste 'have', kannste 'can', biste 'be')
     3sg.m  er  → -ɐ  (machter, hatter, kanner, isser)
     3sg.f  sie → -zə (macht se, hat se, kann se, isse)
     3sg.n  es  → -s  (macht's, hat's, kann's, isses)
     1pl    wir → -mɐ (machmer, hammer, kömmer, simmer)
     2pl    ihr → -ɐ  (machter, habter, könnter, seiter)

- verbs of position form their perfect with 'haben' (Standard):

     gelegen haben 'has lain'
     gesessen haben 'has sat'
     gestanden haben 'has stood'
     ...

- Lack of a special term for the last bit of a loaf of bread?!

- winken → gewunken haben 'to have waved o.'s hand'

- 'n ← denn as some kind of question particle on the verb or its object:

     Was hat'n der vor? 'What's he gonna do?'
     Was hat der'n vor?

     Was is'n das? 'What's that?'
     *Was is das'n?

- Negators (rather common)

     nein   → nee/nö 'no'
     nicht  → nich 'not'
     nichts → nix 'nothing'

- "halt" and "eben" coexist (halt as a filling word)

- "nu" and "jetzt" (both 'now') coexist, though "nu" appears more commonly in either imperatives or when expressing derogatory stance

     Nu komm! - Come on!
     Was willer denn nu wieder? - What's he bugging about now?

- Shortening of indefinite article (very common)

     ein   → n
     eine  → ne
     einen → nen
     einem → nem
     einer → ner

- No distinction between hin- 'to there' and her- 'to here' with prepositions (very common)

     hinauf, herauf     → rauf
     hinaus, heraus     → raus
     hinein, herein     → rein
     hinüber, herüber   → rüber
     hinunter, herunter → runter

- Demonstrative pronouns (common)

     dieser → der hier 'this'
     diese  → die hier
     dieses → das hier
     jener  → der da 'that'
     jene   → die da
     jenes  → das da

     Unlike English, 'this here X' translates as 'das X hier'

- Going to work - zur Arbeit gehen
  at work - auf der Arbeit (at your job), an/bei der Arbeit / am Arbeiten (working)

- because of X - wegen dem X (DAT, not GEN)

- because ... - 'weil SVO' acceptable

- Various vocabulary with regional differences from DTV Atlas Deutsche Sprache (Standard → Regiolect)

     Bauchschmerzen 'stomach ache'    → Bauchweh
     Kopfschmerzen 'headache'         → Kopfweh/-schmerzen
     s. beeilen 'to hurry up'         → s. beeilen, hinne machen
     voriges Jahr 'last year'         → letztes Jahr
     dieses Jahr 'this year'          → dies(es) Jahr
     (afternoon meal)                 → Kaffeetrinken
     Nachmittag 'afternoon'           → Nammittag
     (2nd day of week) 'Tuesday'      → Dienstag
     (3rd day of week) 'Wednesday'    → Mittwoch
     (4th day of week) 'Thursday'     → Donnerstag
     (6th day of week) 'Saturday'     → Samstag
     Ostern 'Easter'                  → Ostern
     Frühling 'spring'                → Frühjahr
     Schreiner, Tischler 'carpenter'  → Schreiner
     Metzger, Fleischer 'butcher'     → Metzger
     pflügen 'to plow'                → pflügen, (úm)ackern
     klopfen 'to knock'               → (kloppen)
     Karotte 'carrot'                 → Möhre
     Rotkohl, Rotkraut 'red cabbage'  → Rotkraut
     Sperling 'sparrow'               → Spatz
     Zündholz 'matchstick'            → Streichholz
     Topf 'pot'                       → Topf, Pott
     (quarter to)                     → viertel vor
     (quarter past)                   → viertel nach
     fegen, kehren 'to sweep'         → kehren [kɛɐn]
     gucken 'to look'                 → kucken
     Traktor 'tractor'                → Trecker
     Schaufel 'shovel'                → Schaufel, Schippe
     Harke, Rechen 'rake'             → Harke
     Negerkuss (a type of candy)      → Mohrenkopf
     Orange, Apfelsine 'orange'       → Orange
     Porree, Lauch 'leek'             → Lauch
     Senf, Mostrich 'mustard'         → Senf [zɛɱp̪͡f]
     Brötchen, Schrippe, ... 'roll'   → Brötchen
     Krümel 'crumb'                   → Krümmel
     (second breakfast, e.g. at work) → Frühstück
     Berliner (kind of pastry)        → Kreppel
     Stechmücke 'mosquito'            → Mücke
     Fersen 'heels'                   → Hacken
     (greeting during the day)        → (Guten) Tag
     (at home)                        → zu Hause
     (not anymore)                    → nich mehr
     (plastics)                       → Plastik
     (first)                          → erster [-s.t-]
     (1st person plural)              → wir
     (people)                         → Leute
     (pl. of Wagen 'cart')            → Wagen
     (hit)                            → gehauen
     (he sleeps)                      → er schläft
     (to sell for)                    → verkaufen für
     (there is)                       → es gibt
     (... that)                       → ..., dass [ɑ]

     For the others listed (e.g. Kartoffel) I have the term used in German Standard German.
     
     verprügeln 'to beat up'          → verkloppen
     der/das Mus 'mash'               → das Mus
     (1st month of the year)          → Januar
     nicht wahr? (question tag)       → ne?
     
- "Bein" is the complete leg, i.e. shank (Oberschenkel), calf (Wade/Unterschenkel), foot (Fuß) (with toes (Zehen)); "Arm" likewise.

[Travis B.]

does it even have the { > e@ / _(m n) shift? because that's pretty much universal in america as far as I know

Yes, it has it.

?????????

I must be seriously misunderstanding something. I don't do this, and I don't know of anyone, local or not, who does.

See here. It's pretty common in North American English, though I don't have it (less common, and part of the Northern Cities Vowel Shift, is the change { > e@ in all environments)

Note that the NCVS does not necessarily involve that particular change with regard to the fate of historical /æ/; for instance, my own dialect, which has the NCVS normally has [ɛ̞] for such, and may have [ɛ] for such in more informal speech, particularly when unstressed, and in some idiolects [e̯ɛ̞] or even [i̯ɛ̞] can be found for such when strongly stressed.

[Skomakar'n]

Today, I found myself saying "Eg hev fåt høyra at eg høyrst meira norsk(e)r enn svænsk(e)r ut. Stemmer det?". Standard Swedish would express and spell this as "Jag ha(ve)r fått höra att jag låter mera norsk än svensk. Stämmer det?"

These both mean "I've gotten to hear that I sound more Norwegian than Swedish. Is that true?"

The differences are that I add the masculine suffixes -er to the adjectives for the nationalities, and that I use höras ut (lit. "to be heard out"), rather than låta, more or less corresponding to the English word.

Then there is, of course the pronunciation:

Standard: [jɑ: hɑ: fɔt 'hø:ra t jɑ: 'lo:tə 'me:ra nɔʂk ɛn svɛnsk. 'stɛmə ɖɛ:]
Me: [ɛ:ɪ ɛ fɶ 'hø:jrɑ ɛ:ɪ højʂt 'mɛ:ɪrɑ 'nøʂkXr ɛY 'sʲvɛnsʲkXr ʉ:t. 'ʃtɛmə ɖɛ:]

I wrote X in there, because I'm still unsure of what I actually pronounce there. I can't tell for sure if it's any of [ə i ɪ ʏ]. I think I have at least established that there is, for a fact, a vowel there, even though it's often close to unheard.

I wrote Y, because I can't determine whether it's any of [ɲ ŋ jn ɪn], or something else, at the moment. I'll keep trying.

Another thing that I have noticed this week, which I haven't thought of before, is that vowel length, at least at the occasion I came to think of, makes an important difference for me:

stjerna ['stjɛ:ɳɑ] "(a) star"
stjerna ['stjɛ:ɳɑ:] "the star"

Also, in Standard Swedish, the cluster <stj> is /ɧ/, and in some dialects, it's any of [ʃ ʂ]. Like you can see above, I just pronounce it the way it's spelled, just like in Norwegian, Danish, Icelandic and Faroese.

[Cockroach]

does it even have the { > e@ / _(m n) shift? because that's pretty much universal in america as far as I know

Yes, it has it.

?????????

I must be seriously misunderstanding something. I don't do this, and I don't know of anyone, local or not, who does.

See here. It's pretty common in North American English, though I don't have it (less common, and part of the Northern Cities Vowel Shift, is the change { > e@ in all environments)

Note that the NCVS does not necessarily involve that particular change with regard to the fate of historical /æ/; for instance, my own dialect, which has the NCVS normally has [ɛ̞] for such, and may have [ɛ] for such in more informal speech, particularly when unstressed, and in some idiolects [e̯ɛ̞] or even [i̯ɛ̞] can be found for such when strongly stressed.

That might be it.I've just noticed that, while I don't think I go for the lull fledged [eə], I do raise the 'a' before. Thank you.

[Zaris]

My dialect, or more so my idiolect, isn't too different from the standard.

Since I live in the south I turn [ai] into [a:]. The only time I do this really when I say bye. [bai] >>> [ba:]

My [r] is retroflex. But, I think a lot of Americans have retroflex [r].

Sometimes I'll voice the end of my words. For instance, when I say Thank you [Teink yu] ::> [Teing yu]

I think I have a bit of a nasal voice as well.

I tend to switch switch my Subjects and Objects around. Can't recall any examples ATM.

[Whimemsz]

Remember to use [ square brackets ] for phones!

Since I live in the south I turn /ai/ into /a:/. The only time I do this really when I say bye. /bai/ /ba:/

I wouldn't say that's really an example of the Southern /ai/ > [a:] change. I actually know several people who say [ba:] or [b{:] for "bye" (I live in Houston), and none of them otherwise have a Texan or Southern accent (except for the presence of "y'all", which is by far the most common dialectal feature of the area). One of the people who does it is actually Canadian, and she also has Canadian Raising (/ai au/ > [@i @u]).

[Zaris]

Remember to use [ square brackets ] for phones!

Since I live in the south I turn /ai/ into /a:/. The only time I do this really when I say bye. /bai/ /ba:/

I wouldn't say that's really an example of the Southern /ai/ > [a:] change. I actually know several people who say [ba:] or [b{:] for "bye" (I live in Houston), and none of them otherwise have a Texan or Southern accent (except for the presence of "y'all", which is by far the most common dialectal feature of the area). One of the people who does it is actually Canadian, and she also has Canadian Raising (/ai au/ > [@i @u]).

sorry about the brackets I shall edit them appropriately
And Hola from San Antonio you damn Houstonites!

y'all should be standard, if you ask me. It might not be like other English contractions accompanied by a vowel, but it's a contraction none the less!

[Nortaneous]

Am I the only person who has [a] for /ai/ instead of [a:]? (also, short /ai/ ([@i] or whatever) never collapses)

although now that I think of it, [a] pretty much only shows up in words like "I"

[benadam]

Hmm, I don't know if you'd call it a dialect, but my accent (I'm from London) can vary a lot, depending on who I'm talking to. It can be anywhere from almost Cockney/London-chavvish to almost R.P., though it never actually reaches either extreme. I'm usually a bit nearer to RP, though (especially when talking to easily-impressed Americans )

(OK, you can now go beck to talking about Scandinavian dialects)

[Spandaux]

Can tell that your dialect is a lot like Norwegian

[Spandaux]

Hmm, I don't know if you'd call it a dialect, but my accent (I'm from London) can vary a lot, depending on who I'm talking to. It can be anywhere from almost Cockney/London-chavvish to almost R.P., though it never actually reaches either extreme. I'm usually a bit nearer to RP, though (especially when talking to easily-impressed Americans )

(OK, you can now go beck to talking about Scandinavian dialects)

Y' ORLROIT MAY'? 'OWS IT GOIN'?

[Yng]

Ahh, glottal stopping. That's something that changes depending on what register I'm using. Sometimes I have nothing but initial [t], sometimes I have no [ʔ] at all.

[Skomakar'n]

I love, love, love English with glo'al stops. I can't resist using them myself when speaking English.

I made a small comparison between my personal pronouns and those in Standard Swedish. My idiolect above, and Standard Swedish below:



As you can see, accusative and dative are merged in Standard Swedish, and Swedish inflects its singular third person not only for masculine, feminine and neuter, but also for the common gender; myself, I just use either the feminine or the masculine one depending on the word. I do a tiny gender difference in the plural third person. The pronunciation is different of most pronouns.

[maıráí]

I think English with the glottal stops in place of t's and things sounds very...European.
I guess maybe when I was little I might've had more Texas in me, but it's been 'smoothed' out over the years.
Y'all, you all, you guys, and all possessive forms you can think up for those,, are used.
'Y'all are dumb' and 'You guys are dumb' but 'You are all dumb' is how that one goes. Sometimes 'You all are all dumb', which may or may not be stressing how dumb everyone is.

Er... and excessive use of contractions. I mean, EXCESSIVE. For instance, "might've" , "can't've", should'nt've and so on. The 've may be "have" or "of". The difference is whether it's a whole syllable or not... schwa+v is of, and just a quick v sound is have.

My R's are never retroflex, I think. And I do pronounce my R's.
I'm pretty sure I've got a nasal voice, but I'm not positive.

Er. And if none of that made sense, according to a quiz, I speak 72.5% General American, 22.5% Yank, and 10% Dixie.

[[I plan on editing this post when I learn more.]]

[Skomakar'n]

So how do you pronounce them? [r]?

---

I noticed today that I have [w], by the way.
Since I almost never pronounce [v] unless initial, this often causes a [w] to appear to make the transition between vowels smoother.

Standard Swedish: <prova> /"pru:va/ (to try)
My idiolect: ["pru:wA]

I previously just assumed I said ["pru:A], but there is clearly a [w] in there, I'm now aware of.

I also was made aware something I really haven't thought of. It was pointed out to me. I have a diphthong I didn't know I have, and I think it has slipped by me because it isn't one of the historical diphthongs; in some places, I pronounce <y> as [2y)].

I do have this diphthong in other places, so I don't mean I have a different diphthong sound I wasn't aware of; I just didn't know I had it in these, not etymologically justified, places.

For example, I pronounce <fy> (ew; yuck) as [f2y)].
I barely have any long <y>'s of this kind, so I'm having a hard time to find any examples; the short ones I pronounce [2]; <rygg> (back [of the body]) is [R2g].

I also noticed about a month ago that [z Z dZ] do appear, but I'm not sure if these are just sloppy pronunciation rather than sounds that are actually in my idiolect. I said something like <är det som en station?> (is it like a station?) as something along the lines of [E: d`E: z2m aI) "stAZu:n].

[Lleu]

The only thing I've noticed about my idiolect is that I say "presently" to mean "soon (in the next few minutes or so)", contrasted with "soon", meaning "at some future point within the next up to a few months".

When speaking Spanish, I have lleísmo and seseo, and I distinguish vosotros and Ustedes (which, in writing, I always capitalize, because that is how I was taught, I swear, although I don't know who taught me that; I also have taken Unamuno's example, not necessarily the best, I realize, in accenting dió and vió, even though we were taught not to accent them).

When speaking French, I use some of the Québec vocabulary I picked up this summer (like déjeuner, dîner, and souper for petit déjeuner, déjeuner and dîner). I also affricate /t d/ to [ts dz] before , and my vowels are I think more Québécois than Metropolitan (e.g. my /9~/ is somewhere between [9y~] and [2y~], although I think actually my /E~/ is more like [{E~]).

That's what I can think of offhand.

[Viktor77]

I realise /i/ as closer, though a tad lower than /1/. My /E/ is /6/, and my /A/ is /a/ (basically the features of the Northern Cities Shift). I nasalise syllabic /n/s as well, and some of my final /t/s become /?/s. I rather like my standard midwestern dialect with hints of Canadian Rising. Also, I say pop, which, as Bricka would say, is how the LORD intended it to be.

Vortex can fill you in on the rest, he's much smarter than I.

[Skomakar'n]

I realise /i/ as closer, though a tad lower than /1/. My /E/ is /3/, and my /A/ is /a/. I nasalise syllabic /n/s as well, and some of my final /t/s become /?/s. I rather like my standard midwestern dialect with hints of Canadian shift. Also, I say pop, which, as Bricka would say, is how the LORD intended it to be.

Vortex can fill you in on the rest, he's much smarter than I.

Hahaha! When I started reading this, I though you were talking about your Swedish idiolect, and I was all like "wow, this sounds awesome; I've got to ask him to record a sample!".

[Viktor77]

Hahaha! When I started reading this, I though you were talking about your Swedish idiolect, and I was all like "wow, this sounds awesome; I've got to ask him to record a sample!".

Well, naturally my English is going to be brought into my Swedish, shall I proceed?

[Skomakar'n]

Hahaha! When I started reading this, I though you were talking about your Swedish idiolect, and I was all like "wow, this sounds awesome; I've got to ask him to record a sample!".

Well, naturally my English is going to be brought into my Swedish, shall I proceed?

I'd love to hear about your Swedish.

[Rui]

I nasalise syllabic /n/s as well

That doesn't mean anything. "Nasalized" means the air flows from your lungs through your nasal cavity. And so does "nasal consonant". So a "nasalized nasal consonant" is redundant.

[Viktor77]

I'd love to hear about your Swedish.

Please don't make fun of my terrible Swedish.

http://host-a.net/Viktor77/swedish3.wma

The stupid static is my computer humming away mindlessly.

[Skomakar'n]

I'd love to hear about your Swedish.

Please don't make fun of my terrible Swedish.

http://host-a.net/Viktor77/swedish3.wma

The stupid static is my computer humming away mindlessly.

Din förbannade usling!

I've always thought you were Swedish!

[Viktor77]

I've always thought you were Swedish!

So tell me, Doctor, how bad was it?