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zompist bboard • View topic - How your idiolect differs from the standard language

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:50 pm 
Sanci
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Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:35 am
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Location: Poland
A funny construction in my German dialect I discovered after having met some older family members who use the dialect much more often:

Where it's Ich kam, um sie zu sehen in Standard German for engl. "I came to see them", I heard constructions like [i bɪ̃n ͡tsʊ̃mn di ˈseː.ɜ ˈkʰɔ̜̃.mɜ], lit. Ich bin zum die sehen gekommen or I am to-the they see come, so with a gerund and a preceding personal pronoun instead of an adverbial phrase, which probably is due to analogy to verbal nouns with an incorporated noun like schiffeversenken etc.

And i finally took a look again at the allophonic realisations of /x/:
It's [ç~x] after close front vowels, [χʀ̥]/[χ̆ʀ̥] after other non-pharyngealized vowels and [ʀ̥] after pharyngealized vowels. The interesting thing now is that there's a phoneme /ʀ/, but that is usually voiced [ʀ̬], which leads to a contrastive pair [ʀ̥]/[ʀ̬] in terms of some word pairs. One would be Lercher (a family name) vs. Lehrer "teacher", namely [ˈlɛɑ̯ˤ.ʀ̥ɑˤ] vs. [ˈlɛɑ̯ˤ.ʀ̥ɑˤ].

Even more strange since my dialect normally lacks a distinction [+-voiced] at all. ~

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:26 am 
Lebom
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I live near Liverpool, not in the city though. My dialect is fairly normal urban British English, with the distinctive northern English features, as well as some Scouse features.

This is a fairly complete list of how my dialect differs from RP phonologically. In terms of grammar and vocabulary, it's basically standard, with only a few minor differences.
- No trap-bath split, so 'bath' is [baf], 'laugh' is [laf], 'dance' is [dans], etc. In recently added words and loanwords though, I may have [ɑː] where Americans wouldn't have it, for example 'can't' [kɑ̃ːʔ].
- No foot-strut split. /ʌ/ never split off from /ʊ/ and is completely absent from the language for me. So 'up' [ʊpʰ].
- Some words, like 'book' or 'cook', may have /u/ instead of /ʊ/, although it varies somewhat with me (because my mum would say /buk/ but my dad would say /bʊk/).
- [ŋ] is not a phoneme; it is an allophone of /n/ before /k g/. So 'sing' is [sɪŋg].
- The verbal ending -ing has dropped the /g/, so that it is now -[ɪn].
- In words like 'nothing', 'something', 'everything', I vary between dropping the [g] and fortifying the [g] to [k]. So 'nothing' might be [nɒfɪn] or [nɒfɪnk].
- /r/ is realised as a labialised postalveolar approximant, [ɹ̱ʷ]. The labialisation is very strong, so that when I was first learning about phonetics I thought /r/ was a labial consonant. The roundedness is of a different sort than that in /w/, but I'm not sure how to describe it. Since [ɹ̱ʷ] never appears postvocalically you can analyse [ɑː ɔː ɜː] as underlying /ar ɒr ɛr/ respectively, and I think a lot of people perceive them that way. With this you get a nice tame eight-vowel system of /i ɪ ɛ a ə u ʊ ɒ/, which you can even reduce to seven if you analyse [ə] as unstressed /ɛ/, /a/ or /ɒ/.
- I'm not too sure about how to interpret my stops. /p t k/ are generally [pʰ tʰ kʰ], only becoming unaspirated after obstruents; they are still aspirated at the end of a word as far as I can tell. /b d g/ might be voiceless in some environments, but I'm not sure.
- RP /əu/ is reflected as /ɵu/.
- /l/ is only velarised before consonants. The consonant can be the first one of the next word though. So 'all of them' [ɔːləvm̩], 'all things' [ɔːɫ̩fɪŋgz].
- /t/ is glottalised, except initially, in the onset of a stressed syllable, and in clusters. So 'bottle' [bɒʔl̩], 'heart' [hɑːʔ], but 'attack' [ə'tak] and enter ['ɛntə]; 'cat' is [kaʔ] but 'cats' is [kats].
- It can be glottalised after /l/ though. For instance 'alter' [ɒɫ̩ʔə]. Oddly, /nt/ is not glottalised usually, but it is at the end of words: 'went' [wɛ̃nʔ]. The [n] in [nʔ] also tends to disappear, but I'm inconsistent about this.
- More traditional in my area is to weaken /t/ to a tap or even fully-fledged [ɹ̱ʷ] in the same environments; I don't usually do this though.
- /d/ weakens as well as /t/, but not as strongly. It either weakens towards a tap [ɾ] or an affricate [dz], but never fully. In fact I think the most common realisation would be an alveolar non-sibilant fricative, [ð̱]. The conditions are generally the same as for /t/, but I'm not very consistent about it.
- /θ ð/ have basically disappeared, although I do pronounce them properly sometimes. /θ/ has generally become /f/. /ð/ is more complicated; it becomes /v/ everywhere but the start of a word, where it survives as a sort of lax phoneme that might be realised as zero, [d], [ɾ], alveolar [ð̱], or even [l]. Alveolar [ð̱] seems to be the most common realisation so I will use that symbol.
- There are no dipthongs ending in [ə]; /ɛə/ has become /ɜː/, /ʊə/ has become /ɔː/, /iə/ is two syllables.
- /i ai ei oi/ break to /iə ajə ejə ojə/ before /l/.
- In general, word boundaries are not good barriers to sound change. Nasals often assimilate to a following consonant, and similar consonants often turn to geminates. This never applies in careful speech though.
- Certain words can be unstressed (I've not read anything about this, so my terminology might not be right), including pronouns, copulas, prepositions, and determiners. For example 'you' is [ju] stressed and [jə] unstressed; 'I'll' is [ajəl] stressed and [al] unstressed. These words are unstressed most of the time, only being stressed when they recieve special emphasis. E.g. 'what are you doing' would normally be [wɒʔəjəduɪ̃n], but if I'd just asked someone else the same question I'd say [wɒʔəjuduɪ̃n], and if they were doing something quite strange I'd say [wɒʔɑːjəduɪ̃n].
- /j/ has dropped after /l/: 'lure' /lɔː/. After /t d s z n h/ it coalesces with it producing [tʃ dʒ ʃ ʒ ɲ ç]: 'tune' [tʃuːn], 'dew' [dʒu], 'huge' [çuːdʒ].
- The pronoun 'youse' [juz], unstressed [jəz], exists as a plural 2nd person pronoun. It is not really a true plural though, since it's only used when disambiguation is necessary.
- Certain vowels, [ɪ ɛ a ʊ ɒ], are not permitted at the end of a word. So historical [ɪ] is always [i] word finally, for example 'happy' [hapi].
- Only [ɪ ə] may appear in unstressed syllables, barring compounds and words with scientific prefixes or suffixes ('archaeology' [ˌɑːki'ɒlədʒi]. [ɪ] tends to centralise to [ɨ] when unstressed, but it's not consistent. I don't have [ɪ] in some cases where standard English apparently has it (e.g. 'roses' [ɹ̱ʷɵʊ̯zəz]); this might be a spelling pronunciation.
- Stressed /i u/ are lengthened before voiced consonants. 'seem' [sĩːm], 'bead' [biːd].
- /ai au/ are lengthened before voiced consonants and at the end of a word: 'bough' [baːʊ]. They also weaken their final element to [ɪ ʊ] when lengthened. In all other environments they are generally [ai au]; the other dipthongs always have a fully close final element.
- If a word ends in [ə ɜː ɔː ɑː] and a word beginning in a vowel follows, /r/ is inserted in between as sandhi. This also applied in the middle of words: so 'drawing' [dɹ̱ʷɔːɹ̱ʷɪn], 'draw a cat' [dɹ̱ʷɔːɹ̱ʷəkaʔ], but 'draw that' [dɹ̱ʷɔːð̱aʔ].
- The letter H is [heɪtʃ]. This is actually normal in my area, not an error.
- My /f v/ tend to be bilabial, but this is probably an idiolectal thing.
- /h/ may be dropped initially, but it varies a lot. It's most common with function words like 'he' or 'him'.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:36 am 
Smeric
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I sometimes say "close the lights" when I mean to say turn them off. Given my personality one might think I'm being weird on purpose, and maybe originally I picked this up just to be weird, but now it's just a matter of me speaking quicker than I think. The original expression seems to be Portuguese/Spanish.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:07 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:33 pm 
Avisaru
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:52 pm 
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Last edited by TaylorS on Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Avisaru
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:15 pm 
Sumerul
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:24 pm 
Avisaru
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:53 pm 
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nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:04 am 
Sumerul
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:26 am 
Smeric
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Sunàqʷa the Sea Lamprey says:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:40 am 
Lebom
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:26 am 
Sumerul
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:32 am 
Sumerul
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:38 am 
Sumerul
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:40 am 
Sumerul
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:14 pm 
Smeric
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Sorry, I should have just used SAMPA. I dont know the British rules of vowel length, so I figured I'd just obscure them by using dictionary-style ī and ĭ instead, but that caused more trouble than it solved.

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Sunàqʷa the Sea Lamprey says:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:23 pm 
Avisaru
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I've noticed that I have an awful tendency towards lenition intervocalically, particularly across word boundaries:

'no thanks' is [nohanks]

I glottal-stop all the time, but this isn't particularly rare. My r flicks between a tap and that weird approximant thing most English speakers have depending on register. I also seem to keep spitting out things that sound awfully similar to ejectives, which is something I've heard other people claim to do on more than one occasion, although they seem awfully out of place...


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:50 pm 
Lebom
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:14 pm 
Sumerul
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:21 pm 
Sumerul
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:01 pm 
Sumerul
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The morpheme boundary could be playing into it, then, or something. This is allowed when doing phonology...... :P The way I see it, you've got a bimorphemic word and it's quite likely that you're joining the two together, meaning that you're quite likely to have an underlying form of whatever "it" is + whatever "'d" is. This can then change differently from other clusters of the sort because there's a morpheme boundary. Just sayin'.

I'm curious, though, as to where the hell else you have a cluster like that. They... like... don't exist.

oh and, sound files. Please.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:12 pm 
Sumerul
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