zompist bboard
http://www.incatena.org/

The status of the proadjective(propredicate?) "le"
http://www.incatena.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=34836
Page 1 of 1

Author:  Yiuel Raumbesrairc [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:12 am ]
Post subject:  The status of the proadjective(propredicate?) "le"

I just had a short exchange with a colleague.

EX (1) :
"Est-ce qu'elle est ici ce matin?" (Asking about someone)
"Oui, elle l'est."

Elsewhere, it has been discussed that this "le" would be a proadjective. But as we can see in the following sentences, "le" does not replace adjectives but predicative phrases.

EX:
(2) Est-ce qu'il est sûr de vouloir partir à Québec? Il l'est.
(3) Est-ce qu'il est en train de danser en pleine nuit? Oui, il l'est.
(4) Est-ce qu'il est parti? Oui, il l'est.
(5) Est-ce qu'il semble devenir heureux? Oui, il le semble.

You need a predicative verb for it to be used, but otherwise, it would seem that, unless it's a loctive phrase, that "le" can replace anything.

How would it be analysed, morphosyntactically? Are there any polysynthetic languages or languages that uses clitics à la française that can do the same thing with predicates?

Author:  Basilius [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:30 pm ]
Post subject: 

An interesting observation indeed!

I can't comment more sensibly but I wonder how similar/different the uses of the related forms in other Romance languages are.

Author:  Magb [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:35 pm ]
Post subject: 

I don't have the answer to your question, but I can point out that the Scandinavian det works the same way (examples in Norwegian):

- Var hun her i morges? ("Was she here this morning?")
- Ja, det var hun.

For active verbs you have to use gjøre "to do" as a pro-verb:
- Kastet han ballen? ("Did he throw the ball?")
- Ja, det gjorde han.

Can you do something like this in French?
- Est-ce qu'il a jeté la balle?
- Oui, il l'a fait.

Author:  zompist [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The status of the proadjective(propredicate?) "le&q

Yiuel wrote:
(2) Est-ce qu'il est sûr de vouloir partir à Québec? Il l'est.
(3) Est-ce qu'il est en train de danser en pleine nuit? Oui, il l'est.
(4) Est-ce qu'il est parti? Oui, il l'est.


Good point, though since 'pronouns' actually replace an NP not a noun, so it shouldn't be very surprising that pro-adjectives replace an AP.

Quote:
(5) Est-ce qu'il semble devenir heureux? Oui, il le semble.


Can you give some more examples like this? I'd wonder here if the anaphor refers to "heureux".

Author:  Ser [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:26 am ]
Post subject: 

Basilius wrote:
but I wonder how similar/different the uses of the related forms in other Romance languages are.

Spanish:
¿Está ella aquí esta mañana? Sí, lo está.
¿Parece ella haberse alegrado? Sí, lo parece.

Heh, for these two it's the same. I can't translate the other ones using a copula though. (However, I'm also not sure if I translated the second one well enough, either.)

Author:  Jipí [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:18 am ]
Post subject: 

Magb wrote:
I don't have the answer to your question, but I can point out that the Scandinavian det works the same way (examples in Norwegian):

Permissible with German "das" (DEF.NOM.N/that) as well:

- War sie heute Morgen hier? (Was she today morning here?)
- Ja, das war sie. (Yes, that was she.)

- Hat er den Ball geworfen? (Has he the ball thrown?)
- Ja, das hat er. (Yes, that has he.)

Phrasing things this way I think it's kinda fortifying the affirmation. Also note the fronting of "das", which acts as a(n) (dummy?) object here.

Author:  Yiuel Raumbesrairc [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The status of the proadjective(propredicate?) "le&a

zompist wrote:
Quote:
(5) Est-ce qu'il semble devenir heureux? Oui, il le semble.


Can you give some more examples like this? I'd wonder here if the anaphor refers to "heureux".


(6a) Est-ce qu'il paraît vouloir partir pour la ville de Québec?
(6b) Oui, il le paraît.
(7a) Est-ce qu'il semble se décider?
(7b) Il le semble.

With "de", you get "en" :

(8a) Il a l'air de ne pas se préoccuper de nous.
(8b) Il en a l'air, effectivement.

Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
https://www.phpbb.com/