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zompist bboard • View topic - Polysynthesis for Novices

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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 4:34 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 5:09 pm 
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(Okay, I added a brief mention of Spanish clitic doubling to section 8.2, as well as another example of non-configuration from Warlpiri to...whichever post talks about non-configurationality)


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 4:08 pm 
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Location: tʰæ.ɹʷˠə.ˈgɜʉ̯.nɜ kʰæ.tə.ˈlɜʉ̯.nʲɜ spɛ̝ɪ̯n ˈjʏː.ɹəʔp

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 9:51 am 
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How does NI affect object agreement? WOuld the agreement affixes be amputated, or no?

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 10:01 am 
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 10:36 am 
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 5:52 pm 
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Hey Whimemsz, just popping in to say thanks for this thread. Interesting discussions.

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 3:27 am 
Avisaru
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This is a fascinating thread. I have another question. One of the conlangs I am playing with will have a large number of noun classes. Do you know if natlangs with more than four noun classes tend towards head-marking (as in Swahili verb affixes) or to polysynthesis?


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 3:43 pm 
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Australian languages with noun classes such as apparently Dyirbal tend to be dependent marking and polysynthetic!


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 4:14 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:46 am 
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OMG AN ACTUAL CONPOST WTFBBQ

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:30 am 
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:35 am 
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presumably they are reasoning


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:25 am 
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 2:02 pm 
Avisaru
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Back to my question - out of the polysynthetic languages known to ZBBers, how many of them have multiple noun classes (i.e. >4)? and out of the multiple NC languages, what proportion of them are a) head-marking b) agglutinative and c) polysynthetic? Because my (non-specialist) intuition suggests gender and especially multiple NC may be a factor in making languages evolve towards synthesis and I wondered, if that was the case, how far might the process go?


Last edited by Mornche Geddick on Thu May 31, 2012 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 2:19 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:18 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:22 pm 
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This may be a bit of a parentheses, but... how's about making a purely polysynthetic lang with just ablaut and other non-con morphology? wouldn't that be neat ? can it be done?

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:31 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:25 am 
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ESTAR-3SG:P human-OBJ only human-OBJ true-OBJ REL-LOC play-3SG:A


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:34 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:32 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:10 pm 
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Great work, Whimemsz. You've put together well-researched, intriguing material. Thank you for all the time and effort you put into the project.

A few topics I'd very much like to find out more about:

- In head-marking polysynthetic languages without oblique cases, how are subtle shades of meaning in the domains of relationship, location, and time expressed? Are they more creative than using prepositions, postpositions, or set phrases like "in the centre of town"? If these items are marked on the verb, how complex are the systems in use, and how are multiple oblique phrases in one sentence handled?

(1) a. The boss bought a cup of coffee for all his employees.
b. The teacher made a request to the principal on behalf of her students.

(2) a. His friends arrived by train around ten o'clock in the morning.
b. The soldier killed the lion without using a weapon of any kind.

(3) a. The prime minister fired the minister of defense for his incompetence.
b. Schools were closed because of the snowstorm.
c. The government worked against its own interests by supporting the foreign rebellion.

(4) a. Most of the hikers came to the campsite with all their gear.
b. A few of the hikers came to the campsite without all their gear.

(5) a. The family sat in the waiting room for a long time.
b. I walked toward the house's front door but then realized it wasn't the right address.
c. We wandered into the living room when we got home early in the evening.
d. We walked up to the end of the train tracks and then turned around.

(6) a. The student and his friends worked during the summer.
b. The student and his friends vacationed from late July into early August.
c. The student and his friends practiced their instruments from the start of May until the end of August.

(7) a. Everyone trekked across the forest and swam across the river in five hours.
b. News of the king's assassination quickly traveled across the country.
c. The BBC can be heard around the world.
d. Houses and farms are scattered throughout the area.

(8) a. We ran past the shopping mall on our way home.
b. The student and his friends stayed up late beyond the start of the new school year.

(9) a. A strange man came out of the building.
b. A strange man walked away from the building, after standing near the entrance for a while.
c. We leaned the suitcases up against the wall, far out of reach of the rain.
d. The doctor has been up since eight o'clock in the morning.

(10) a. He stood on the roof of his house and looked out at the scenes of destruction in the city around him.
b. The helicopter hovered above the enemy air base.
c. The clouds floated in over the lake as we were swimming in to the beach.

(11) a. He hid under the bed.
b. A tunnel runs underneath the river.
c. A racoon came out from under the park bench as I sat down.

(12) He moved the bricks out of the warehouse and up the hill.

(13) We carried the piano down the stairs and into the basement.

- What kinds of morphophonology are common in polysynthetic languages? How do roots, affixes, or both change?

- What polysynthetic languages are more fusional and less agglutinative? In what areas of the nominal or verbal morphology are more or less likely to be fusional or agglutinative?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:14 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:41 am 
Sumerul
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Lakota has dative and benefactive affixes that add an argument to the verb for (1). The rest of your examples are just adverbial or postpositional phrases...

a. opȟétȟuŋ X buys Y : opȟékičatȟuŋ X buys Y for Z (dative)
Itȟáŋčhaŋ kiŋ | tȟawówaši kiŋ oyás'iŋ | wakȟályapi waŋžígžila | opȟéwičhakičatȟuŋ.
"The boss | all his employees | one coffee each | he bought it for them."

b. walá X makes a request : wakíčila X makes a request on behalf of Z (benefactive)
Waúŋspewičhakhiye kiŋ | tȟawáyawa kiŋ hená | itȟáŋčhaŋ kiŋ etáŋ | wawíčhakičila.
"The teacher | her students | from the principal | she makes a request on their behalf."


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