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zompist bboard • View topic - Polysynthesis for Novices

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:29 pm 
Avisaru
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Hm....I'm having some trouble fully grasping the section for polysynthesis.

This is a sentence from one of my conlangs, Ngith. What kind of incorporation would this be?

"Uden-ngeit t'ejetanevk'i".
[food-cook-PTCPLE give-IMPER-3.SG.IA-BENF-LOC]
("Give me something to cook this food in".)
(Literally, "Give me something for the purpose of food-cooking".)

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satisfaction-DEF.SG-LOC live.PERFECTIVE-1P.INCL but work-DEF.SG-PRIV satisfaction-DEF.PL.NOM weakeness-DEF.PL-DAT only lead-FUT-3P


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:46 pm 
Avisaru
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Last edited by Whimemsz on Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:51 pm 
Avisaru
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Hm....Ngith has all of the first two, somewhat.

Type one:
Thļongea.
[bird-cook-1.SG]
"I cook birds."

Type two:
Warislaan.
[bad-see-1.SG-3.SG.IA]
"I see it, but badly/I can't see it very well."

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Nūdhrēmnāva naraśva, dṛk śraṣrāsit nūdhrēmanīṣṣ iźdatīyyīm woḥīm madhēyyaṣṣi.
satisfaction-DEF.SG-LOC live.PERFECTIVE-1P.INCL but work-DEF.SG-PRIV satisfaction-DEF.PL.NOM weakeness-DEF.PL-DAT only lead-FUT-3P


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:01 pm 
Smeric
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Your second example would still be type 1: "bad" isn't a body part and its incorporation doesn't affect what the verb's subject or object can be. Instead it is narrowing the scope of the verb to denote a particular action (seeing badly).


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:05 pm 
Avisaru
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Oh. Well, type 2 is still possible in Ngith (I don't have enough words for it yet but saying something like [leg-break-1.SG-PASSIVE.ACT] for "My leg got broken" is perfectly acceptable in Ngith).

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satisfaction-DEF.SG-LOC live.PERFECTIVE-1P.INCL but work-DEF.SG-PRIV satisfaction-DEF.PL.NOM weakeness-DEF.PL-DAT only lead-FUT-3P


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:42 pm 
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Someone please remind me to vote for this thread in next December's awards thingy. Superb work from everyone who's contributed, but most especially Whimemsz.

Now I'm gonna have to come up with a new descriptive word for my Akat, because it's clearly not 'polysynthetic' ...


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:07 am 
Lebom
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Last edited by Gojera on Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:16 am 
Avisaru
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You know, I feel like if Whim were willing to let it be used for that purpose, Zomp should copy this and include it as an appendix in the LCK 2.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:12 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:48 pm 
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Paperfolding is okay, but a little weird.

Doctorreccomending is just wrong.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:39 pm 
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Last edited by Whimemsz on Tue May 15, 2012 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:40 pm 
Avisaru
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9 - Where To Go From Here

So, we've covered the basics of polysynthesis: what it is, some of the many types of meaning and relations that can be marked on the verb in such languages, some ways in which polysynthetic traits can develop. But where to go from here in developing your own polysynthetic language or in learning more about them? From personal experience I can tell you that the most effective thing is to learn a polysynthetic language. This takes a tremendous level of dedication and patience, so it's certainly not for everyone, but it can provide you with so much more insight into some of the myriad possibilities open to you than reading a summary ever could. On the other hand, just reading grammars or grammatical sketches of polysynthetic languages will undoubtedly be very helpful.

There's been a good deal written about polysynthesis, and I've skipped over a lot of it here (and of course, I haven't read all of it!). In particular, I've really glossed over much of the theoretical stuff involved, partly because I don't understand all of it myself, and partly because I was trying to keep this introduction as basic as I could, with the hope that it would be as accessible as realistically possible. I'd love to hear from some of our more theory-knowledgeable and oriented members on the topic. In the meantime, the most significant theoretical work is Mark Baker's book The Polysynthesis Parameter, written in a Principles and Parameters framework, although I haven't read it, and many other linguists have disagreed with Baker's conclusions. There have also been some good typologically-oriented but less theoretical approaches to aspects of polysynthesis. I'd especially recommend two works by Marianne Mithun: her 1984 article on noun incorporation and the book Languages of Native North America (see the references section below).


10 - Sources

*Tariana examples:
Aikhenvald, Alexandra Y. (2006). Evidentiality. Oxford/New York: Oxford University Press.

*Warlpiri example:
Austin, Peter and Joan Bresnan (1996). "Non-Configurationality in Australian Aboriginal Languages." Natural Language & Linguistic Theory 14(2): 215-268.

*Wambaya example:
Bender, Emily M. (2008). "". Proceedings of the HPSG08 Conference, NICT, Keihanna, Japan.

*Spokane examples:
Carlson, Barry F. (1990). "Compounding and Lexical Affixation in Spokane". Anthropological Linguistics 32(1/2): 69-82

*Abkhaz example:
Cysouw, Michael (1998). "". In: Heleen Strating & Jorn Veenstra (eds.). Proceedings CLS Opening Academic Year '98/'99. Tilburg: Center for Language Studies, 27-50.

*Most Nuuchahnulth examples:
Davidson, Matthew (2002). . Ph.D. dissertation, SUNY Buffalo.

*Baniwa of Içana, Dekwana, Cuiba, and Yanomami examples:
Dixon, R. M. W. and Alexandra Y. Aikhenvald, eds. (1999). The Amazonian Languages. Cambridge/New York: Cambridge University Press.

*West Greenlandic and Bininj Gun-wok examples:
Evans, Nicholas and Hans-Jürgen Sasse, eds. (2002). Problems of Polysynthesis. Berlin: Akademie Verlag.

*Some Yup'ik examples and the Seneca examples:
Goddard, Ives, ed. (1996). Languages. Vol. 17 of Handbook of North American Indians, ed. William C. Sturtevant. Washington, D.C.: Smithsonian Institution.

*Muskogean reconstructions and the Caddo example:
Hardy, Heather K. and Janine Scancarelli, eds. (2005). Native Languages of the Southeastern United States. Lincoln: University of Nebraska Press.

*Koasati examples:
Kimball, Geoffrey D. (1991). Koasati Grammar. Lincoln: University of Nebraska Press

*Noun incorporation discussion and examples:
Mithun, Marianne (1984). "The Evolution of Noun Incorporation." Language 60(4): 847-894

*Some Yup'ik examples, one Nuuchahnulth example, and the Acoma Keresan, Lake Miwok, and Numic examples:
Mithun, Marianne (1999). The Languages of Native North America. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.

*Some Ojibwe examples (the remaining Ojibwe examples are from my personal background knowledge):
Valentine, J. Randolph (2001). Nishnaabemwin Reference Grammar. Toronto: University of Toronto Press.


Last edited by Whimemsz on Tue May 15, 2012 4:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:41 pm 
Avisaru
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woooooooooooooooooooo





FINAfuckingly.

god



never doing this again you guys


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:42 am 
Sanci
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This. Is. Awesome.

You have inspired me to make one of my languages polysynthetic.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:32 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:22 am 
Smeric
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ROCK'N'ROLL! *standing ovation*

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Tha cvastam émi cvastam santham amal phelsa. -- Friedrich Schiller
ESTAR-3SG:P human-OBJ only human-OBJ true-OBJ REL-LOC play-3SG:A


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:58 am 
Lebom
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O ja. I don't know how many thousands of words all of that is, but it's a lot! That was a ton of work to put this together for us, and it's a huge contribution to us, and to the forum. Thanks!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:52 pm 
Avisaru
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According to your part on NI, a lot of my conlangs could be on the way to productive NI if I did diachronics.

Many of my conlangs allow stacking noun/adjectives/other verbs onto a verb to create a new one. A few examples:

Cryset: Abvuchen ("to graze/scrape"[friction-hit])

Pazmat: Sceptconya ("to have an epiphany/finally gain true understanding of something", from "Sceptya (to realize)" and "Conya (to think)")

Would this be analyzed as NI or something else entirely? This compounding is productive in both ofthe above conlangs.

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Nūdhrēmnāva naraśva, dṛk śraṣrāsit nūdhrēmanīṣṣ iźdatīyyīm woḥīm madhēyyaṣṣi.
satisfaction-DEF.SG-LOC live.PERFECTIVE-1P.INCL but work-DEF.SG-PRIV satisfaction-DEF.PL.NOM weakeness-DEF.PL-DAT only lead-FUT-3P


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:45 pm 
Avisaru
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Read up more on noun incorporation.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:46 pm 
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OMG AN ACTUAL CONPOST WTFBBQ

Formerly known as Drydic.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:26 pm 
Avisaru
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1. I haven't said it yet, but this thread is brilliant.
2. I don't think anyone should be posting about their conlangs here, unless they are accomplished polylangers who really know their shit like Vohp Himself.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:39 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:39 pm 
Lebom
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:26 pm 
Avisaru
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What other polylangs have case? You mentioned several of California and the Plateau region, and I know the Eskaleut languages have case (certainly the Yupik and Inuit branches, and whatever the hell Aleut has that looks like case). Anywhere else?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:55 pm 
Smeric
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I have two examples in Japanese, is the latter noun incorporation? It wouldn't be polysynthetic, I'm just trying to learn more about NI.

目が覚める me ga sameru (to open the eyes, to awaken)
目覚める mezameru (to eye-open, to awaken) [this has dakuten sound changes]

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