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Bizarre Sound Changes
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Page 6 of 8

Author:  Rekettye [ Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  L'alphabētarium [ Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  TaylorS [ Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  ---- [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes

Most of the sound changes that occurred from PR to Ogami are fairly basic, but a couple of them are pretty spectacular. The results of the vowel devoicing stuff are especially fun. We end up getting this set of changes (among similar others, but they're sorta complicated and I'm not sure I can write them correctly in the formal style):
ku > fu
i, u > ɯ
ɯ > s (when not adjacent to any voiced phonemes)
s > f /_f,f_
degemination of moraic s/f occurs here I think (unconditionally?).
and then there it is again:
t > k /_{s, f}
with the added bonus that k isn't lost in that position!

Cr > C: is pretty cool imo too (cf. Og. ssu v. Jp. shiro) but I dunno if that's actually so great.

EDIT: the cognate of Japanese hajime is pakɯmi so maybe the change actually occurred before fricativization of ɯ.
EDITT: yeah I'm 90% sure it was t > k/_ɯ

Author:  Nortaneous [ Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes

and o > u, giving a vowel system of /a e i ɯ u/

Author:  ---- [ Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes

The distribution of /e/ in the language is really weird. It's muuuch rarer than other vowels. So much so that my examination of all the lexical items I could find hasn't given me a very satisfying idea of where it came from (there's probably some document somewhere that talks about Miyako diachronics but hell if I can find it). But at least some cases of it come from *ya; cf. the name of the language:
*miyako >> meeku
and there's a suffix -teen that I think would be cognate to -(*)chan in Japanese.

Author:  vokzhen [ Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes

Jicarilla is Southern Athabascan language, and like most has a stop inventory of /t ts tɬ tʃ k/, each plain, aspirated, and ejective, plus /p kʷ kʷʰ/. It apparently has a near-complete merger of tʰ > kʰ, without a loss of original kʰ triggering it as happened in Austronesian languages.

Some Slavey dialects took the original /t̪θ t̪θʰ t̪θ' θ ð/ and did weird things. One fronted them to /p pʰ p' f v/, one labiovelarized them to /kʷ kʷʰ kʷ' hʷ w/ (my unsupported guess would be via t̪f or t̪ʷ), and one mixed the two with /kʷ f ʔw f w/.

Author:  ---- [ Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes

Maybe sort of weird: Wuvulu had k > 0, t > ʔ, and then s > t and r > x. I guess these sound changes aren't totally spectacular, but the results are fun: the stop inventory is /b p t ʔ/.

(in the small consonant inventories thread, gach reports an inventory of /b p t ʔ m n f h r l w j/ but Blust claims that /j/ is not phonemic and /r/ certainly isn't).

Author:  ---- [ Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes

Here's a fun one: you know the fairly common change θ > f? the Shark Bay language of Vanuatu has : POC *p > θ before unrounded vowels. It also had m > n and ⁿb > t.

Author:  vokzhen [ Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes

Ik (Kuliak, Niho-Saharan?) lost their laterals: /ɬ/ > [ʃ], which isn't strange, but /ɮ/ > [ɦʲ-,-ʒ-] and /tɬ'/ > [ʄ]. And children are apparently starting to take /ts'/ > [ʄ] as well.

Author:  Nortaneous [ Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  ---- [ Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  Nortaneous [ Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes

03:03 < nort> mundari nasal release only occurs in monosyllables
03:03 < nort> /ub/ [u?bm] but /udub/ [udu?b]
03:24 <@vlad> southeastern tepehuan also has b > ?m word-finally but not just in monosyllables
03:24 <@vlad> and I thought that was weird

Author:  Nortaneous [ Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes

To all the people who keep asking if palatals can turn to velars: some Formosan languages had PAn *j (which was /ɲ/) > dʑ > g. But they didn't have tɕ, and the one language where it was unconditional (as opposed to a partial merger of *j and *g) first had *g > k.

Author:  ---- [ Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes

l > tʃ in Anejom, in the environment of front vowels (e.g. *tolu > *teli > e-setʃ). That's a pretty odd reflex for palatalization of L.

Author:  Raholeun [ Sun Sep 06, 2015 6:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  vokzhen [ Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  Nortaneous [ Sat Sep 19, 2015 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes

Yeah, I could believe /D/ for *j. And maybe /5/ for *R? I wonder what the d1 d2 d3 stuff is about -- could PAn have had a dental/alveolar contrast?

Author:  Porphyrogenitos [ Fri Sep 25, 2015 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  ---- [ Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes

I think what kind of throws it for a loop in the case of Anejom is that there was already a /j/ phoneme at any possible time when the l palatalization could have occurred, so it would have had to go directly from [l~ʎ] to something along the lines of [dʒ] or else it would have dragged the /j/ with it (which didn't happen). That's not terribly weird but if you include all the intermediates not a lot of things remain weird.

Author:  linguoboy [ Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  Pabappa [ Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  Nortaneous [ Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  ---- [ Fri Dec 25, 2015 1:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes

The Mizo sound change has a nice comparison with the set of changes that happened in several northern Athabaskan languages. The set of phonemes *s *tsʰ *ts' *z *ts shifted to *θ *tθʰ *tθ' *ð *tθ and then went kind of wacky from there. Dogrib has them as xʷ kʷʰ kʷʼ w kʷ and Hare has them as f f ʔw w kʷ.

Author:  Vijay [ Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes

There's this set of sound changes in Dravidian languages that I've been wondering about for a while now involving nasals. I'm not even sure what the exact progression of the change was, but I get the impression that it went something like this:

*nr > ndr > nd (> nd̪?) > n̪d̪ > n̪n̪ > nn

In particular, the part that always looked kind of weird to me was nd > nd̪. I've never really been sure why the [d] would just suddenly become dental.

Here's an example: In Centhamil, the "formal" variety of Tamil traditionally used for literature, the word for 'pig' is written பன்றி, which suggests the pronunciation [ˈpənri] but is pronounced more like [ˈpəndri] in practice.

In Kannada, which split off from Tamil relatively early, the word for 'pig' is ಪಂದಿ, so something like [ˈpən̪d̪i].

In Malayalam, which split off only much later, the word for 'pig' is പന്നി [ˈpən̪n̪i].

But in the variety of Tamil spoken in Madurai (which is the only colloquial variety of Tamil that I'm specifically familiar with at all, really), the word for 'pig' is பன்னி, so something like [ˈpənni].

A bit off-topic, but another thing that I always found ironic is that in Tamil, dental and alveolar nasals are allophones of the same phoneme, but there are different symbols for them (ந [n̪a] vs. ன [na]). Yet in Malayalam, they contrast, but they're written with the same symbol (ന).

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