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zompist bboard • View topic - Bizarre Sound Changes

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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 9:35 pm 
Avisaru
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 9:42 pm 
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Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
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Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:42 am 
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 9:28 am 
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Does anyone know if front rounded vowels have ever arisen from front unrounded vowels? e.g. i > y, rather than u > y. I need /y/ and /ø/ for a series of languages whose parent language has just /a e i o u/ and where getting them to arise from /o u/ would be difficult, but getting them from /e i/ would be easy and would make more sense because /i/ is much more common than /e/ and I intend /y/ to be much more common than /ø/. Another reason why I want to do it this way is because I'm thinking of having the proto-language /u/ shift to /ɯ/, and then only get /u/ back through a similar change. So it would be /e i ɯ/ > /ø y u/. The language has a lot of labialized consonants which I'm intending to make disappear, and which could be a cause for the rounding of the front vowels. But like I said, I'm not aware of a sound change like that in any language.

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 9:37 am 
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As far as I know, yes, it's particularly rare. But I think Cʷi → Cy is probably realistic enough.


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 10:14 am 
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 10:52 am 
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V'ënen Taut reflects Proto-Oceanic bilabials and labiovelars as linguolabials and bilabials, possibly through an intermediate stage of palatalized and velarized bilabials, as some other languages in the family have. Other langs take that a step further, and shift linguolabials to dentals, at least before unrounded vowels.

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Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 11:35 am 
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#undef FEMALE

I'd love for you to try my game out! Here's the forum thread about it:
http://zbb.spinnwebe.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=36688

Of an Ernst'ian one.


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:25 pm 
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ei > oa, anyone?


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:30 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:39 pm 
Sumerul
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Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:45 pm 
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nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:56 pm 
Sanci
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I'm not sure how bizzare this would be considered, but /h/ -> /g/ in Sanskrit/Indic loanwords in Tamil. So, I suppose it's not the sort of sound change you were looking for, but the effect of the phonology of neighbouring languages and bilinguals is also a part of historical sound change isn't it?


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:02 pm 
Sumerul
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Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:07 pm 
Sumerul
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Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:46 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:50 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:57 pm 
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I can't not read that as Fappu Notter.

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:07 pm 
Avisaru
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Plains Algonquian languages (Blackfoot, Cheyenne, and Arapahoan), though they don't form a genetic group, are distinguished from other Algonquian languages by a lot of really unusual changes, some specific to each language and others diffused among several of them (the most bizarre changes being in Cheyenne and Arapahoan). The result is that you really have to know the correspondences to recognize just about any cognate in any of the Plains languages with equivalents in other members of the family or in Proto-Algonquian. Some of the changes are chronicled in various places in the Correspondence Library, but I'll highlight the most interesting/unusual/bizarre ones here.

Cheyenne and the Arapahoan languages share several. One is the merger of the semi-vowels *j and *w into *j (unconditionally in Arapahoan, postconsonantally in Cheyenne; this parallels the Hebrew change sirdanilot mentioned), which in most cases then further changed to n (perhaps by way of something like *ɲ) -- so Cheyenne and the Arapahoan languages often reflect Proto-Algonquian [PA] *j and *w as n! In fact, in Cheyenne, this also affected the automatic palatal offglide which developed between a *k (which was later lost) and a following front vowel, leading to the correspondence PA *k : Cheyenne n. In Arapahoan, word-initial *s became n as well. Another shared unusual change is the loss of *k (irregularly in Cheyenne), and in Arapahoan, the resulting shift of the labial stop *p to a velar *k (which later split into /k/ and /ʧ/; for more on labial-velar interchange, see below).

In Blackfoot, *k was not lost, but initial *t did shift to k (as in Austronesian!), e.g. koʔkó- "be night" (< PA *tepeskwatwi > something like *topskwawi- > etc). Blackfoot also changed *j to s and postconsonantal *j (and sometimes *w) to isi or isa in a number of cases, e.g. moʔksísi "armpit" (< PA *meθenkwi > something like *moθnkwi > > *moθnkji > > *moθnksisi > etc.) and mó:sa "anus" (< PA *mje:ji "piece of dung" > something like *me:ji > > *me:si > etc.). Cheyenne also has the change *j → t in some environments (as in sɪ́joto̥ "ghosts" < PA *ʧi:pajaki [the /j/ in the modern Cheyenne form is a later addition to break a vowel hiatus, and does not reflect the original */j/, which is continued by the modern /t/]). Gros Ventre has several unusual changes of its own, including the shift of word-final *θ and *k to ʦ and *m to bʲ.

To summarize, we have changes like:

CHEYENNE
*j → t /$__
*w → *j /C__
*k → Ø
*j → n

BLACKFOOT
*t → k /#__
*j → s /__V#
*w → j /k__i
*ja, *ji → sa, si /C__#

ARAPAHOAN
*w → *j
*j → n /$__
*k → Ø
*p → *k
*s → n /#__

GROS VENTRE
*k, *θ, *m → ts, ts, bʲ /__#

The result, as I noted, is some extremely unusual and opaque correspondences/etymologies. For example, Cheyenne nɪtsɪ̥ "eagle" (< PA *keriwa > something like *kjeri > > *jiti > > *niti > etc.; cf. Ojibwe giniw) and -onɪ́sɪ- "try to" (< PA *kakwe:ʧi- > something like *kakje:ʧi- > > *aje:ʧi > *ane:ʧi > etc.; cf. Oj. gagwe:(ʤi)-); Arapaho ní:ʧí: "river" (< PA *si:pi:wi > *si:pi: > *si:ki: > *ni:ki: > etc.; cf. Oj. zi:bi), nóúbe: "fly (n.)" (< PA *sakime:wa "mosquito" > *sakime:j > *saime:n > *naime:n > etc.; cf. Ojibwe zagime:), and hené:ʧe:nóʔ "buffalo bulls" (< PA *aja:pe:waki "male ungulates" > > *aja:pe:jak > *ana:pe:nak > *ana:ke:nak > etc.; cf. Oj. aja:be:g); and Gros Ventre ʔóts "arrow" (< PA *aθwi > > *oθ > etc.; cf. Oj. anwi "bullet"), ʔé:je: "sparrow hawk" (< PA *ke:hke:kwa "hawk sp." > > *ke:ke:k > *e:e: > etc.; cf. Oj. ge:k:e:k), and bê:síbʲ "plum" (< PA *meʔʃi:mini "large fruit" > *meʔʃi:min > > *meʔʃi:m > etc.; cf. Oj. miʃ:i:min "apple").

The labial/velar interchange that happened in Arapahoan also has parallels in Austronesian, though in the other direction and with some complications: Sa'ban changed PMP *ɡ to p, ʤ, or zero initially, p finally, and ʤ intervocalically (e.g., ajəŋ "spinning top" < PMP *ɡaiŋ; ʤɪntoʔon "star" < PMP *ɡituqən; peləp "skittish" < PMP *ɡiləɡ; bəlʔup "wasp" < PMP *bəluquɡ; and aʤiəp "rice sieve" < PMP *aɡaɡ). And it's happened other places too (and of course acoustically labials and velars are both fairly similar, and are generally described as sharing the feature [+grave]), so it's not totally outrageous, but it is still uncommon.


Last edited by Whimemsz on Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:21 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:23 pm 
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Scottish Gaelic has a , because initial zero can be interpreted as grammatical lenition of /f/. You also get things like /h/ becoming /t/ for similar reasons.


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:38 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 5:27 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 6:11 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:56 pm 
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Last edited by Ser on Mon May 21, 2012 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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