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zompist bboard :: View topic - Bizarre Sound Changes
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Bizarre Sound Changes
http://www.incatena.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=40450
Page 3 of 8

Author:  Bob Johnson [ Mon May 21, 2012 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes

Greek apparently went from [y] to [f]~[v] in certain contexts. Fortition like this and that of [j w] above weirds me.

Author:  Jetboy [ Mon May 21, 2012 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  Ser [ Mon May 21, 2012 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  finlay [ Mon May 21, 2012 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  sirdanilot [ Tue May 22, 2012 3:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  sirdanilot [ Tue May 22, 2012 3:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  Drydic [ Tue May 22, 2012 7:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  Miekko [ Tue May 22, 2012 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  sirdanilot [ Tue May 22, 2012 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes

lo and behold I dropped the 'ist' off of Americanist, making my speech utterly incomprehensible

Author:  Miekko [ Tue May 22, 2012 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  installer_swan [ Tue May 22, 2012 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  Qwynegold [ Tue May 22, 2012 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  Aurora Rossa [ Tue May 22, 2012 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  Whimemsz [ Tue May 22, 2012 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes

okay time out-- what is the source and where can I learn more about this?

Author:  TaylorS [ Tue May 22, 2012 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  ---- [ Tue May 22, 2012 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes

I'm not sure if this applies for any other words, but for my grandmother and a few other older speakers around here, the word <borrow> has a pretty drastic vowel shift at the end of the word, that is, /ou/ > /i/, so the word is pronounced approximately [bɑɹi].

Author:  Tropylium [ Tue May 22, 2012 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes

IIRC I sighted the 4-grade claim from Pekka Sammallahti's 1998 monograph The Saami languages: An Introduction.

Phonetically it should help a little that the realizations are probably along the lines [ʰtː] : [ʰtˑ] : [ʰt] : [d̥] (the book only mentions Ume Sami in passing, but a lack of preaspiration in the length-1 series there too seems to be implied). Or perhaps not, because then we also have consider the long lenis series, [d̥ː] : [d̥ˑ] and the like (a Western Samic innovation from nasal+stop; it's possible however that Ume does not have gradation for those and thus has only five series of stops).

The fortis/lenis opposition also applies to clusters, FWIW. *pt :> [pt], but *mt :> [b̥d̥].

Also IIRC — my notes are less clear here — in Northern Sami nasals also have (phonetically) a four-way grade distinction, but it's resolved into 2×2 phonetics via preglottalization, ie. [ʔmː] : [ʔm] : [mː] : [m]

(Note to self: the Wikipedia entry for Northern Sami really needs a phonology section.)

Author:  Skomakar'n [ Tue May 22, 2012 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  Nortaneous [ Tue May 22, 2012 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  linguoboy [ Wed May 23, 2012 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  brandrinn [ Thu May 24, 2012 1:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  Soap [ Thu May 24, 2012 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  AnTeallach [ Thu May 24, 2012 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  Travis B. [ Thu May 24, 2012 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


Author:  Drydic [ Thu May 24, 2012 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bizarre Sound Changes


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