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 Post subject: Re: Vowel Systems
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:09 pm 
Sumerul
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no, no, it's not that bad, in many cases it was just spreading of [+/-high]

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 Post subject: Re: Vowel Systems
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:13 pm 
Avisaru
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FearfulJesuit wrote:
The Australian language Arrernte also has a V2 system, and the Ndu languages of New Guinea are rumored to have a V2 system as well. (The Ndu claim is particularly suspect; although they can all theoretically be analyzed as having a V2 system, at least one linguist has analyzed the Ndu language Iatmül as having twelve phonemic vowels. This is par for the course with strange little vowel systems.)


Since the thread was active not so long ago and there was this remark on the vowel systems of the Sepik area languages I thought I should maybe share some updated thought on them. I'll be discussing two of the better studied languages of the area, Iatmul (Ndu family, grouped into the larger Sepik family) and Yimas (Lower Sepik family, grouped into the larger Ramu-Lower Sepik family) and drawing mainly from The vowel system of Iatmul (Jendraschek, 2008) and The Yimas Language of New Guinea (Foley, 1991).

I'll try to add X-SAMPA in parentheses after all IPA and also alter the orthography somewhat where necessary to get better screen reader compatibility.


Iatmul

[I'm using the practical orthography for the Iatmul examples where most notably the prenasalised voiced stops /mb nd ŋg/ (/mb nd Ng/) are written with plain voiced stops <b d g>, the palatal nasal with <ny>, the high central vowel /ɨ/ (/1/) with <i'> and the low back vowel /ɒ/ (/Q/) with <â> when at the end of words.]

Iatmul, as other Ndu languages, has been analysed as having the simple vertical three vowel system /a ə ɨ/ (/a @ 1/) with remaining surface vowels arising due to contact with adjacent palatal or labial consonants so that roughly speaking

/ɨ/ (/1/) > [ i ] when in contact with palatal consonants
/ɨ/ (/1/) > [ u ] when in contact with /w/

and

/ə/ (/@/) > [e] when in contact with palatal consonants
/ə/ (/@/) > [o] when in contact with /w/

Furthermore, the high central vowel is commonly used in the Sepik area as the regular epenthetic vowel to break illegal consonant clusters and its appearance is often predictable. This led to the idea that it might be separate from the phonemic vowels and that the languages would have two vowel systems /a ə/ (/a @/).

For this analysis to work, many cases of [ i ] and [ u ] have to be analysed underlyingly as diphthongs /ɨj ɨw/ (/1j 1w/) with the distinctive vowel qualities separated on two phonemic segments. If we are also discarding the high central vowel from the system these should be just /j/ and /w/ with epenthetic /ɨ/ (/1/) inserted before the glides or the glides themselves becoming syllabic. So for example du ("man") would be /ndɨw/ (/nd1w/) and yuwi ("grass") /jɨwɨj/ (/j1w1j/). This is doable, though a bit stilted, and it's not clear why such an analysis of front and round vowels would reflect the underlying phonemic structure of the language any better than just taking these vowel phones as independent phonemes of their own right.

More seriously, there are counterexamples to the fronting and rounding rules that cause serious trouble for the minimal analysis. The word aaiwa ("completely") gives us an example of the high front vowel [ i ] preceding /w/ instead of a naively expected [ u ]. You could argue that this is actually underlyingly /a:ɨjwa/ (/a:1jwa/) with an extra /j/ but this only seems to take us only into the dark forest of invoking imaginary consonants. There's also ki'nya ("tomorrow") which totally unexpectedly preserves the high central vowel before the palatal nasal. Explaining this word either requires us to come up with some extra rule that justifies the central vowel at this position or to just accept the existence of both the front and rounded vowels as independent phonemes.

To stir the pot even more, there's yet another phonemic vowel contrast in the language that's totally overlooked by the the two or three vowel analyses. The language has two low vowel qualities, [a ɒ] ([a Q]), which mostly appear in complementary distribution so that the rounded back variant appears after labial consonants and the central or front variant elsewhere. The front [a] can also appear after the labial consonants though, creating minimal pairs such as

gi'pma ("tree in the swamp")
gi'pmâ ("brown frog")

These minimal pairs demonstrate that the front back contrast is phonemic also for the low vowels and the above two words should be analysed as /ŋgɨpma/ (/Ng1pma/) and /ŋgɨpmɒ/ (/Ng1pmQ/).

All in all, taking these vowels contrasts into account gives us a system with seven phonemic vowel qualities as opposed to the proposed two or three. If you count also the length and glottalisation contrasts which some vowels have, the amount of vowel phonemes increases into 11 or 12.


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 Post subject: Re: Vowel Systems
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:32 pm 
Avisaru
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Yimas

[For Yimas I'm using a transcription system based on Foley (1991) but slightly altered. I'm writing the palatal and velar nasals as <ny> and <ng> in all positions including before homo-organic stops as there is no nasal assimilation in the language. For the high central vowel /ɨ/ (/1/) I'm choosing <ï> for now.]

The vowel system of Yimas appears to be /a i u ɨ/ (/a i u 1/) and this analysis holds even when you do a thorough study of the phonology of the language. Scraping the surface a bit reveals some interesting biases though, and these might give motivation to try some other kinds of analyses as well.

First of all, more that 90% of all vowels in the Yimas lexicon are /a/ or /ɨ/ (/1/). There are also diphthongs /aj/ and /aw/ but no diphthongs based around the high vowels. When /ɨ/ (/1/) comes in contact with /j w/ it becomes /i u/ respectively,

kampï- (likely.DL3) + yan ("come") > kampiyan ("let them both come")
antï- ("hear") + -wat (HAB) > antuwat ("usually hear")

Secondly, the epenthetic nature of the high central vowel is especially strong in Yimas and nearly all instances of it can be explained as epenthesis rather than as underlying vowels (Foley takes this practice to its end and doesn't even bother to write out the instances of /ɨ/ (/1/) that can be understood as epenthesis and leaves his readers to exercise the vowel insertion rules themselves). Thus under this interpretation you can get roots even completely without underlying vowels,

/ŋmkŋn/ (/NmkNn/) for ngïmkïngïn ("chair")
/mɲŋ/ (/mJN/) for mïnyïng ("tongue")

With these two points in mind it might feel tempting to try an analysis of the Yimas vowels where [i u] are underlyingly either diphthongs /ɨj ɨw/ (/1j 1w/) or /ɨ/ (/1/) being in contact with consonantal /j w/ or even consider the high central vowel itself purely an epenthetic feature separate from phonemic vowels giving you either a two vowel system /a ɨ/ (/a 1/) or even a very strange one vowel system /a/.

Neither of these insanities work as such though. There are instances of the high central vowel which are breaking allowed consonant clusters and so cannot be understood as inserted epenthetic vowels. Compare

patn ("betelnut") vs. amanatïn ("I feel")
kankan- ("shooting") vs. nïkïnïng ("chin")

These argue for understanding /ɨ/ (/1/) as a fully independent vowel phoneme. An even saner analysis would treat only the instances of /ɨ/ (/1/) alternating with zero as truly epenthetic leaving the non-alternating root internal cases as underlying vowels.

There's also reason to think that /i u/ must be truly phonemic on their own right. Besides the argument against invoking unattested glides, the vowels /i u/ also sometimes appear as epenthetic elements breaking illegal consonant clusters,

nakatïmayk ("I call him") + -kiak (PST) > nakatïmaykikiak ("I called him")
mangkum ("vein") + -l (DL) > mangkumul ("two veins")

There is no glide insertion here and instead the inserted vowels take their frontness of roundness from the same feature spreading from one of the surrounding syllables. There's also no historical reason to assume that /i u/ would have complex nature as they carry from the Proto Lower Sepik and are represented similarly in the related languages.

There is a way to make an analysis of the Yimas vowels with fewer segments, but to make this work properly we have to treat vowel quality more like a suprasegmental feature. First we introduce a [+low] quality that contrasts with unmarkedness. A vowel with the [+low] feature equals /a/ while an unmarked vowel equals /ɨ/ (/1/). On top of this contrast we assume optional [+front] and [+round] features so that vowels with only these equal /i u/ and those with these and [+low] equal /aj aw/. Vowel insertion can then be understood as inserting a plain unmarked vowel with /i u/ insertion as that followed by [+front]/[+round] spreading from the surrounding syllables.

Such an analysis is elegant but has the drawback of being unnecessarily abstract for most purposes. If you want to do a traditional and more practical segmental analysis of the Yimas vowels you are stuck with the four vowel interpretation.


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 Post subject: Re: Vowel Systems
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:36 pm 
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I'd like to ask the OP if you could add the X-SAMPA equivalents after the IPA symbols in your first post. I'm able to convert the latter into the former manually, using this tool, but it's a tedious process.

Nortaneous wrote:
Does Ubykh really have a two-vowel system? Most claims I've heard say three, but one is longer than the other. One of those languages has an I think unambiguously two-vowel system though. Adyghe, I think.

...

If you think large vowel systems are hardly found outside Western Europe, you aren't looking hard enough.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kensiu_language#Vowels
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiw_language#Phonology
http://alex.francois.free.fr/data/AlexF ... OL44-2.pdf


It's unfortunate that Chechen was overlooked even though languages from the Caucasus have been discussed. Wikipedia says that it has "a large vowel system resembling those of Swedish and German":

/I i: y y: U u:/
/je ie H2 y2 wo uo/
/e_o e_o: 2 2: o_o o_o:/
/& &: @ A:/

Wikipedia also notes (IPA symbols converted to X-SAMPA), "In closed syllables, long vowels become short in most dialects (not Kisti), but are often still distinct from short vowels (shortened [i], [u], [O], and [A_t] vs. short [I], [U], [o], and [@], for example), though which remain distinct depends on the dialect. /&/, /&:/ and /e/, /e:/ are in complementary distribution (/&/ occurs after pharyngealized consonants, whereas /e/ does not, and /&:/ — identical with /&/ for most speakers — occurs in closed syllables, while /e:/ does not) but speakers strongly feel that they are distinct sounds."

In my view, Chechen belongs in the T8 category somewhere--a variation on Finnish or Turkish. Its vowel inventory looks so large only because of a quality-quantity distinction and when diphthongs are included.


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 Post subject: Re: Vowel Systems
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:28 pm 
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FearfulJesuit wrote:
Common among conlangers, I think, is T6R:

T6R
Code:
i y   u
 e    o
    a


I don't know of any languages where this appears in nature; (...)

From the languages listed in the Wikipedia article for /y/, the only one with /i y e a o u/ seems to be the Souletin dialect of Basque. Is T6R really so uncommon?

I have a conlang with a six-vowel system that has developed from a T3 system with short-long distinction, with quantitative distinctions becoming qualitative. My idea was to get to a T6R more or less like this:

/i a u iː aː uː/ [ɪ a u iː ɒː ʉː] > /e a u iː ɔː ʉː/ > /e a u i o y/

Is this plausible? Would be a pity if it isn't. Vowel length has certain grammatical functions in the proto-language, resulting in vowel alternation (e - i, a - o, u - y) in the daughter language...


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 Post subject: Re: Vowel Systems
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:43 pm 
Avisaru
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Definitely interesting stuff... for what it's worth, I've heard of another 5-vowel system that doesn't seem to be included here. As far as I can tell nobody else has pointed it out yet.

Yuki (a language isolate from northern California) has a system similar to the OP's S5 but with the back-rounded vowel /o/ instead of the front-unrounded vowel /e/, for total inventory of /a, ə, i, o, u/


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 Post subject: Re: Vowel Systems
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:45 am 
Sumerul
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Benturi wrote:
My idea was to get to a T6R more or less like this:

/i a u iː aː uː/ [ɪ a u iː ɒː ʉː] > /e a u iː ɔː ʉː/ > /e a u i o y/

Is this plausible? Would be a pity if it isn't.

I don't see why not, but I'd expect /y/ to unround to /ɨ/ eventually. Front rounded vowels are only common in languages with large vowel systems; Souletin Basque picked them up through areal influence from French.

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 Post subject: Re: Vowel Systems
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:21 am 
Smeric
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dhok aka FearfulJesuit wrote:
T8R is the usual analysis- er, or a more usual analysis- of Mandarin:

Code:
T8R
i y     u
    ɪ
  e  ə  o
     a
What? H-how? I thought the usual analyses of Mandarin vowels were /i y u ə a/ (not found in either of Bricka's articles) and /ə a/. These are the two analyses presented on the Wikipedia article on Mandarin phonology for instance (though admittedly the wording was confusing when presenting the former analysis back in the days when Bricka wrote those articles and you created this thread--it has been clarified now--; and the second analysis was obscured, and is still obscured, since it's found only in the headings of a table).

I guess this analysis proposes that zhi [ʈʂɨ] and ji [tɕi] are /ʈʂɪ/ and /tɕi/ (or /ʈʂɪ/ and /ki/, or /ʈʂɪ/ and /tsi/, or something like that).

EDIT:
Quote:
Edit: in the interests of attribution, much of this was from this page by an unknown author, Wikipedia, or Bricka's page on vowel systems.
Also, I remember seeing this thread back in February, and I thought I had clarified that the "unknown author" is Bricka himself as well (which explains the great similarities in the format of the articles), but I must have been dreaming.

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 Post subject: Re: Vowel Systems
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:36 am 
Avisaru
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Serafín wrote:
EDIT:
Quote:
Edit: in the interests of attribution, much of this was from this page by an unknown author, Wikipedia, or Bricka's page on vowel systems.
Also, I remember seeing this thread back in February, and I thought I had clarified that the "unknown author" is Bricka himself as well (which explains the great similarities in the format of the articles), but I must have been dreaming.


Both pages were indeed by me. The pink one dates from before I had my colour-blindness fixed, and was my first attempt at doing something worthwhile on the topic. The other one was a heavily-reworked update which I put together with feedback from various other ZBBers as a submission for the ALCK, although it was rejected.

If you think there's anything of value in my efforts, such as the classification system, by all means go ahead and use them for something. For example, I've often thought it might be worth showing diagrammatically how some systems change into others, but I've lacked sufficient round tuits to do so.

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 Post subject: Re: Vowel Systems
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:48 am 
Smeric
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I don't think the "Yonagu by you" recollection of articles zompist was envisioning was the ALCK. It just happens that only two articles were submitted (or maybe three, I can't even remember), and two articles don't make a book.

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 Post subject: Re: Vowel Systems
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:52 pm 
Sumerul
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Yeah I never got around to writing mine. Think it was supposed to be on phonations. Anyway, here's another vowel system pattern, particular to SE Asia: you start with whatever underlying inventory, and then add featural distinctions: +/-high, +/-palatal, etc.

Khmer can be analyzed as having an underlying vowel system of /a ɛ ɔ e ə o i ɨ u/, but with an additional +/-high feature. This is actually what happened diachronically; voiceless initials conditioned -high, and voiced initials conditioned +high, although with some phonation shit in between that doesn't make that any less bizarre.
Code:
       a  ɛ  ɔ  e  ə  o  i  ɨ  u
-high: a  ae ɑ  e  aə ao əi ə  o
+high: iə ɛ  ɔ  ɪ  ə  ʊ  i  ɨ  u


Tangut is similar, but starts with a smaller vowel system and adds another dimension: +/-palatal. Using this reconstruction: (there might be a more recent one, but Amritas' site is so badly organized I can't find it)
Code:
           a  e  ə  o  i  u
-high -pal ɑ  ae ə  ɔ  əɪ ʊ
-high +pal a  ɛ  ɪə œ  ɪ  ʏ
+high -pal ɐ  ɨe ɨ  o  ɨi u
+high +pal æ  e  iɨ ø  i  y


Amritas says some of the front vowels come from earlier diphthongs, so an earlier stage would have had:
Code:
           a  e  ə  o  i  u
-high -pal ɑ  ae ə  ɔ  əɪ ʊ
-high +pal ɪɑ ɛ  ɪə ɪɔ ɪ  ɪʊ
+high -pal ɐ  ɨe ɨ  o  ɨi u
+high +pal iɐ e  iɨ io i  iu


IIRC his current Sino-Tibetan reconstruction is that preinitial vowels could be either low or high and this conditioned +/-high in at least Tangut and Chinese.

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 Post subject: Re: Vowel Systems
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:08 pm 
Avisaru
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Benturi wrote:
FearfulJesuit wrote:
Common among conlangers, I think, is T6R:

T6R
Code:
i y   u
 e    o
    a


I don't know of any languages where this appears in nature; (...)

From the languages listed in the Wikipedia article for /y/, the only one with /i y e a o u/ seems to be the Souletin dialect of Basque. Is T6R really so uncommon?

Good question. UPSID lists this system for Tzeltal, but comparision with Wikipedia suggests that the "/y/" is actually /j/. The next closest match appears to be Tsou with /i ʉ u e o a/.

Albanian also comes pretty close with a seven-vowels-no-ø inventory /i y u e ə o a/ though. UPSID lists a similar system /i y u ɛ ʌ ɔ a/ for Ejagham (or Ekoi).

Then there are about 12 languages on UPSID with basically /i ɨ u e o a/ so yeah that appears to be much more likely to end up at.


Benturi wrote:
I have a conlang with a six-vowel system that has developed from a T3 system with short-long distinction, with quantitative distinctions becoming qualitative. My idea was to get to a T6R more or less like this:

/i a u iː aː uː/ [ɪ a u iː ɒː ʉː] > /e a u iː ɔː ʉː/ > /e a u i o y/

Is this plausible? Would be a pity if it isn't. Vowel length has certain grammatical functions in the proto-language, resulting in vowel alternation (e - i, a - o, u - y) in the daughter language...

Seems plausible to me. Perhaps this could be furthermore broken in two stages:
1) Vulgar Latin-style loss of vowel length: *ii *i *a *aa *u *uu → i *e *a *ɒ *o *u
2) Back chainshift: *u *o *ɒ → y u o

In most languages I know of that have /y/ without /ø/ (Souletin Basque, Koine Greek, Southern Khanty, Nganasan), the historical development has been *u → /y/ followed by *o → /u/. This chainshift also occurred in French and Mainland Scandinavian, loosely speaking.

---

One interesting type of vowel system that I don't think has been mentioned is found in Khanty. There is a basic distiction between full and overshort vowels — historically, probably long vs. short, but the former class outnumbers the latter and is treated as unmarked.

The "dialects" have an order of diversity among them that'd pass for an entire language family in other circles, so you get a 5-for-one deal here:

Far Eastern Khanty
Code:
i y ɯ u
e ø   o  ĕ ø̆ ŏ
æ œ ɑ ɔ      ɑ̆

Central-Eastern (Surgut) Khanty
Code:
i ɯ u
e   o  ĕ ɵ̆ ŏ
a   ɒ  ă   ɑ̆

Southern Khanty
Code:
i y u
e   o  ĕ ŏ
a   ɑ  ă ɑ̆

Northern Khanty, Obdorsk dialect
Code:
i u
e o    ŏ
a ɑ  ă ɑ̆

Northern Khanty, Kazym dialect
Code:
      i u
eː oː   o
   ɔː
   ɑː   ɑ

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 Post subject: Re: Vowel Systems
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:49 pm 
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Old Slavonic had the same

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 Post subject: Re: Vowel Systems
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:13 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Vowel Systems
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:59 pm 
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Laura in Space wrote:
Serafín wrote:
EDIT:
Quote:
Edit: in the interests of attribution, much of this was from this page by an unknown author, Wikipedia, or Bricka's page on vowel systems.
Also, I remember seeing this thread back in February, and I thought I had clarified that the "unknown author" is Bricka himself as well (which explains the great similarities in the format of the articles), but I must have been dreaming.


Both pages were indeed by me. The pink one dates from before I had my colour-blindness fixed, and was my first attempt at doing something worthwhile on the topic. The other one was a heavily-reworked update which I put together with feedback from various other ZBBers as a submission for the ALCK, although it was rejected.

If you think there's anything of value in my efforts, such as the classification system, by all means go ahead and use them for something. For example, I've often thought it might be worth showing diagrammatically how some systems change into others, but I've lacked sufficient round tuits to do so.

Good to see you back.

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 Post subject: Re: Vowel Systems
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:55 am 
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Arapaho has a square 4 vowel system with /i u ɛ ɔ/. Is that the one you were thinking of?


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 Post subject: Re: Vowel Systems
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:16 pm 
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Soap wrote:
Good to see you back.


Thanks! Although don't expect to see to much of me.

Is Risla still around? She was cool.

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 Post subject: Re: Vowel Systems
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:16 pm 
Sumerul
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Laura in Space wrote:
Soap wrote:
Good to see you back.


Thanks! Although don't expect to see to much of me.

Is Risla still around? She was cool.


I am wondering where Risla is off to myself.

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 Post subject: Re: Vowel Systems
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:02 pm 
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She still stops by IRC every now and then.

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 Post subject: Re: Vowel Systems
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:35 am 
Avisaru
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I just thought of something I'm going to use this thread to ask this because if anybody has competent answers this means they will end up in the same thread:

Are there any studies on the interdependence of vowel quality, length and stress (and possibly tone)? It seems that, much like diphthongs, the OP completely ignores this aspect of vowel systems even though it certainly plays a large role in natlangs. We're all familiar with vowel mergers in unstressed syllables, but there are more interesting things that happen, in particular quality distinctions only on long vowels or, and this is even better, length distinctions only on certain vowel qualities. Examples I can think of are Ancient Greek and Vietnamese, respectively, who do this:

Code:
i i: y y:
e e: o o:
ɛː     ɔː
   a aː


Code:
i  ɨ   u
e      o
ɛ ɜ̆  ɜ ɔ
  ɐ̆  ɐ


A particularly exciting example of quality-length-stress mismatches is Ulster Irish, which has:
Code:
Stressed:     Unstressed:
i: ɪ uː       i   u
eː   oː ɤ     e ə o
   ɛ ɔː ʌ         
æː  a           a


Other things include Ojibwe with five long but only three short vowels, also actually fuck it I have better things to do than list examples but you get the idea. Something to keep in the back of your head when thinking about your vowels.

And again, if there is a comparative typology on this sort of thing I would be greatly interested.

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Last edited by Hallow XIII on Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:18 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Vowel Systems
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:42 am 
Avisaru
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She still stops by IRC every now and then.


Say Hi from me, would you? If she's forgotten who I am, "Iconic Eccentroclast" should remind her :-)

Inversion wrote:
Are there any studies on the interdependence of vowel quality, length and stress (and possibly tone)? It seems that, much like diphthongs, the OP completely ignores this aspect of vowel systems even though it certainly plays a large role in natlangs.


I could only do so much to start with... but, no doubt, there's a lot of interesting stuff in there yet to come out.

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 Post subject: Re: Vowel Systems
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:18 pm 
Smeric
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FearfulJesuit wrote:
[...]

In T8C, found in Javanese, Catalan, São Tomean Creole, Lo-Toga (with fronting of /u/ to /ʉ/) and Slovene, /ə/ is added:

T8C
Code:
i    u
e    o
ɛ  ə ɔ
   a


Although this is basically true let me say something concerning Catalan:

T8C is true for Eastern Catalan (Northern, Transitional Northern, Central and Balearian), which is differentiated from Western Catalan (North-Western, Tortosí and Valencian) due to a lack of /ə/. So, essentially, Eastern Catalan is T7L (a ɛ e i ɔ o u).

Algherese also belongs to Eastern Catalan because it merges atonic <a e> and <o u> into 'neutral' vowels. The main difference is that atonic <a e> are neutralized into /a/ instead of /ə/, so Algherese's vocalic system is, essentially, T7L (a ɛ e i ɔ o u), like Western Catalan.

Northern Catalan is T5 (a e i o u).

Capcinese (Capcinès), as a subdialect of Northern Catalan, has its five vowels, but it adds /ø/. So, Capcinese, at least in some areas, is (a e ø i o u).

Finally, the Barcelonian subdialect behaves like Central Catalan, from which it's a part. Concerning the vocalic system its main difference is the use of /ɐ/ as the neutral vowel for <a e> (basically a wider, more open, variant of /ə/).
My own dialect is Barcelonian but, like many other speakers, I have both schwas, (ɐ ə), so my vocalic system is (a ɛ e i ɐ ə ɔ o u).

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 Post subject: Re: Vowel Systems
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:15 pm 
Avisaru
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Bulgarian is like what you describe Inversion.

Stressed:
Code:
i   u
   ɤ o
ɛ 
  a


and unstressed:
Code:
i   u
    ʌ
ɛ   ɐ


Unst. ɛ and i merge under the most lax of conditions and the contrast between ɐ vs ʌ is minimal (but still perceived, by my generation at least, God knows what the future holds)

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 Post subject: Re: Vowel Systems
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:18 am 
Smeric
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R.Rusanov wrote:
Bulgarian is like what you describe Inversion.

Stressed:
Code:
i   u
   ɤ o
ɛ 
  a


and unstressed:
Code:
i   u
    ʌ
ɛ   ɐ


Unst. ɛ and i merge under the most lax of conditions and the contrast between ɐ vs ʌ is minimal (but still perceived, by my generation at least, God knows what the future holds)

Says the guy who spent his first 6 years there then grew up in America.

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 Post subject: Re: Vowel Systems
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:16 am 
Avisaru
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You think I don't still speak it with my family, with local Bulgarian friends, and with Bulgarians within Bulgaria when I visit every summer? Unlike most "diaspora" who barely deserve the name I've kept my language at native proficiency while adding others to my repertoire.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1FtcDek0M6R

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