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Hmm... should I do this or research PACs for Government? Not a hard decision, really... :roll:

I suppose Basque is the non-IE lang I know the most about (not much, really). I think the verbal system is particularly cool; a very few verbs use synthetic forms, but most require an auxiliary that encodes tense, person (of subject, object, and a dative argument), mood, and even gender occasionally:

jaten naiz - I'm eating
jaten nintekeen - I could eat (i.e. 'was able to eat')
eman geniezazkiake - We might have given them to you (male listener, as opposed to geniezazkinake, which indicates a
female listener)

Obviously, the auxiliary carries tons of meaning (which also allows for pretty free word order). In fact, I calculated that it has 2640 distinct forms! The only thing the main verb really does (beside providing the root meaning, of course) is indicate aspect:
janaria saltzen dugu - We sell food (imperfective)
janaria saldu dugu - We've sold food (perfective)

Nouns can take various case or postposition suffixes; these are agglutinative, although there's some fusion sneaking in:

txakur (dog) + -ak- (plural) + -z (instrumental) -> txakurrez

Interestingly, certain postpositions are treated differently with animate nouns (as usual, animate doesn't always mean what we think; 'idea' is animate, for example):

eskolarantz - towards the school
gizonarenganantz - towards the man

I remember someone mentioning how the English possessive -'s can attach to a noun phrase ('I found [the man who stole my car]'s wallet'; ambiguous, but oh well); Basque does this type of thing frequently:

liburua irakurri dut - I read the book
But: [liburu interesgarri]a - (the) interesting book
(-a is a determiner)

I guess that's it. (Hope I haven't made too many mistakes).

Damn, I really need to do that homework... :evil:


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I'm going to use a feature like that in Xap. From now on, Xap will have two genitive markers ... -la for a word, and -axa for a whole clause. I'll do similar things for the other noun cases. I also read the first page of this thread and I want to adopt that redundancy feature found in Chinese which lengthens a word in order to distinguish it from homophones. I've been already doing that actually, without realizing it ... but now that I know what I'm doing, I can make it work better.

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Hallo!

To get back onto the topic:

Some interesting "non-IE" features can be found in Caucasian languages. The Caucasus is a linguistic wonderland, with more than 50 languages in an area about the size of Germany or France. And most of these languages are interesting.

Georgian has uvular and ejective stops - and it has an active-stative case marking pattern in the aorist and perfect (with different cases used for the agent in the aorist and the perfect), but a nominative-accusative case marking in the present. The verb system is fiendishly complex, with various tense/aspect/mood forms and person/number markers for subject, direct object and indirect object. Old Georgian also has suffixaufnahme (a genitive noun agrees in case and number with the head noun just like an adjective), though this is no longer productive in Modern Georgian.

The Northeast Caucasian languages have even more rock'n'roll consonants - pharyngeals, lateral fricatives, etc. - in addition to the uvulars and ejectives of Georgian. Most of them also have noun class systems almost like Bantu (though with fewer classes, but they do have class agreement markers on verbs and adjectives). Many Northeast Caucasian languages have lots of cases - up to 40 and more in some languages. These cases are built from a kind of "construction kit" - one morpheme expressing spatial relationship such as 'on', 'in', 'below', etc., and one expressing direction of motion: 'to', 'from', 'through', 'at' (no motion), etc. And finally, these languages are ergative.

Then there are the Northwest Caucasian languages. They have some of the biggest consonant inventories ever. They have just about every consonant found in Northeast Caucasian languages, and more. Just about everything can be plain, labialized or palatalized. Whew! The price they pay for that are poor vowel inventories - according to some analyses, some languages have only two. They also have only few noun cases or none at all, but highly complex verb morphologies, and they too are ergative.

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EDIT: Note to anyone who may be reading this years later: there's some inaccuracies (or, rather, extreme simplifications) in the discussion below, mostly regarding the derivational morphology of nouns and verbs and such. The other stuff, about conjunct verbs etc., is still correct

Tidbits from Ojibwe! Yay! Many of these features apply to Algonquian languages more generally, as well.



There are also three so-called "orders" of verbs: imperative, conjunct (used in subordinate clauses and in certain other complex situations), and independent (all other verbs). Conjunct verbs are very interesting. They are most often used to mark verbs as subordinate (e.g., gaawiin gii-bi-izhaasiin gaa-aakozid, "he didn't come because he was sick, where the independent form of the second verb would be gii-aakozi, "he is sick;" example from ). However, I just finished reading a really interesting article on conjunct verbs: Rogers, Jean H. (1978). Differential Focusing in Ojibwa Conjunct Verbs: On Circumstances, Participants, and Events. International Journal of American Linguistics, 44: 167-179. The article deals with a distinction among conjunct verbs between "plain conjunct" and "changed conjunct" (forms in which the first vowel in the verb complex undergoes a predictable ablaut). Rogers argues that plain conjunct forms are used in basic, neutral sentences, while changed conjunct forms are used to place special focus on some aspect of the verb, either the circumstances surrounding the action, the participants involved in the action, or the event of the action itself. It's extremely fascinating, and I'm going to provide some examples from Rogers (though altered somewhat to fit the dialect I have so far been describing, Southwestern Ojibwe as spoken in Minnesota and Wisconsin):

An example of the neutral conjunct is in the sentence Mii sa azhigwa de-apiitizid (it.is thus now enough-be.of.a.certain.age-3SG.SIMP.CONJCT), "It's that he's old enough now." A changed conjunct form, however (also involving the initial apiiti-/apiichi-, "extent"), focuses on the circumstances surrounding the action; in this case, the degree or extent involved; for example, gaawiin ingii-gashkitoonziin ji-onishkaayaan gaa-apiichi-zegiziyaan (not 1-PAST-be.able-NEG to-get.up-1SG.SIMP.CONJCT PAST.CHANGED.CONJCT-extent-be.scared-1SG.CONJCT), "I wasn't able to get up, the extent to which I was scared" (i.e., "I couldn't get up I was so scared"). Or, to take a different example, using the preverb onji- (changed conjunct wenji-), "location," an example sentence using the independent order would be Mille Lacs indoonjibaa (Mille Lacs 1-come.from), "I'm from Mille Lacs." An example using the changed conjunct, however, is Mii iwidi wenjibaayaan (it.is over.there come.from.CHANGED.CONJCT-1SG.CONJCT), "It is there that I come from; that's where I come from," with the focus on the location, rather than a just being a neutral statement.

Verbs can also place focus on their participants through the changed conjunct form. Nominal verbs, called "participles," are quite common in Ojibwe, and are simple third person changed conjunct verbs used as nouns, with the meaning "someone/something who is [verb], does [verb]" (a number of common nouns are actually verbs in participle form, for example bemisemagak, "airplane," literally "something that flies along," the changed conjunct form of bimisemagad, "it flies along, it flies past"). These can be interpreted as changed conjunct verbs placing focus on the subject participant of the action.

A final area on which the changed conjunct can focus is on the occurrence of the action itself. For example, there is the simple conjunt form in the clause giishpin oodetooyaan (if go.to.town-1SG.SIMP.CONJCT), "if I go to town." The changed conjunct form appears in the verb wedetooyaanin (go.to.town.CHANGED.CONJCT-1SG.CONJCT-ITER), "whenever I go to town." Rogers points out that in this case "reference is to particular repeated events" (175). In other words, the focus is on the occurrence itself, and not just a neutral statement.

Okay, that's all the time I have for now. I should talk about the direct/inverse system, but I think the covers it fairly well. And there's also more info on Ojibwe grammar in .


Last edited by Whimemsz on Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:37 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:00 pm 
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I'd say that's more than a tidbit. :P

Anyway, I've got some info on Nepālī. I don't think I can type in Devanagārī, so bear with me.

First of all, verbs have positive and negative forms, like Japanese:

hũ~hoina (I am~I am not)
chas~chainas (you (intimate) are~you are not)
bolchu~boldina (I speak~I don't speak)

Secondly, there is a special inflection upon adjectives, a "qualified" form: quite tall, nice enough, rather short. It can be formed either by a qualifying adverb or by changing the adjective ending:

dublo~dublai (tall~quite tall)
hoco~hocai (short~rather short
rāmro~rāmrai (nice~nice enough)

ali dublo: quite tall
ali hoco: rather short
ali rāmro: nice enough

I like this idea. In Dhāna, I think that rather than special comparative and superlative degree inflections of adjectives, I'll have qualified, emphasized, and "too much" forms: quite tall (just less than tall), very tall (taller than tall), too tall (tall enough to be a problem).

I haven't gotten that far in Teach Yourself Nepali, so I can't really say much more.

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