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zompist bboard :: View topic - Tidbits from beyond IE
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Tidbits from beyond IE
http://www.incatena.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=53
Page 6 of 6

Author:  Lleu [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:11 pm ]
Post subject: 


Author:  hwhatting [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:25 am ]
Post subject: 


Author:  rotting bones [ Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IE

[quote="Ran"]No IE language, afaik, has any trace of tones.[/quote]
The search isn't turning up anything, so I'll just go ahead and say it: Isn't Punjabi a tonal language? I'm pretty sure it has three phonemically distinguished tones: high, mid and low.

PS. Okay, technical problem #1.

Author:  jmcd [ Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IE

[quote="rotting ham"][quote="Ran"]No IE language, afaik, has any trace of tones.[/quote]
The search isn't turning up anything, so I'll just go ahead and say it: Isn't Punjabi a tonal language? I'm pretty sure it has three phonemically distinguished tones: high, mid and low.

PS. Okay, technical problem #1.[/quote]Yeah I'm sure there's tone there too. And it says so in the book 'The Indo-Aryan Languages' by Colin P. Masica, which is in front of me here. In fact, it says (page 118): Contrastive tone is reported from several NIA languages and dialects, among them Chittagong and Dacca Bengali, Shina, Khowar, Gawarbati, Bashkarik, "Lahnda", Rajasthani, Dogri, several West Pahari dialects (Kochi, Shodochi, Bishshau, Rudhari, Khashali), and possibly Wotapuri, but undoubtedly the classic case of tone in NIA is Punjabi. There are two distinctive tones in Punjabi contrasting with the neutral tone: the High (or High-Falling /`/ and the Low (or Low-Rising) /´/. (Some would say there are three tones, including the neutral or "Mid" tone as one of them.)

Author:  rotting bones [ Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tidbits from beyond IE

Thanks, and apologies for resurrecting a thread four years after it expired for something regulars already know by now, I'm sure. (only for the L&L Museum, and only because the word Punjabi, Oikoumene's Čia-Ša, doesn't occur once in the whole forum according to the search function) This is how the tones are represented orthographically: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurmukh%C4%AB_script

PS. Wait a minute, the Čia-Ša languages aren't tonal? I had an Eddyimpression that they were. Huh, just isolating.

P2S. I can't believe there isn't a single tonal Eastern language, the closest being Cuezi, which is only pitch-accented. Oh well, at least Lufaša is largely monosyllabic. That's one divergence Oikoumene hasn't produced to my knowledge. It looked tonal to me because of all these accents over the vowels like bák, chàn, nük, etc, but there's no reference to tones anywhere.

Author:  Whimemsz [ Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tidbits from beyond IE

Man what is up with none of the BBCode working in this forum? It's pissing me off. >:|

Author:  TomHChappell [ Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IE


Author:  jmcd [ Sat Oct 30, 2010 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IE


Author:  TaylorS [ Sun Oct 31, 2010 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IE


Author:  schwhatever [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tidbits from beyond IE

Also some (south?) Slavic languages IIRC.

Author:  Soap [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tidbits from beyond IE

I think what Ran may have been getting at is that none of the IE languages that have tones today inherited them from PIE ,even in a much-changed form. They all went through stages in which they were completely toneless and then re-developed tones in various ways. I don't think everyone agrees with this, though; I remember reading on this board somewhere that there are at least some people who believe that the tones of Latvian and Lithuanian do in fact trace back directly to PIE. Even so, it's nearly certain than Punjabi and the Slavic languages' tones are innovations and not inherited from Sanskrit/Proto-Slavic.

Author:  Jashan [ Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tidbits from beyond IE


Author:  Mecislau [ Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tidbits from beyond IE


Author:  Pogostick Man [ Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tidbits from beyond IE

Apparently, has a binary counting system.

Author:  TomHChappell [ Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tidbits from beyond IE


Author:  hwhatting [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tidbits from beyond IE


Author:  finlay [ Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tidbits from beyond IE

I don't buy it... they haven't given us enough information to determine what happens past 10. Is 8+7 "pömp pömp ragltika gudl pip"? Because I doubt it – that'll get very confusing very quickly.

Author:  Herr Dunkel [ Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tidbits from beyond IE


Author:  brandrinn [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tidbits from beyond IE


Author:  Aurora Rossa [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IE


Author:  jmcd [ Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tidbits from beyond IE

Maybe try downloading real player then.

Author:  Nortaneous [ Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tidbits from beyond IE


Author:  brandrinn [ Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tidbits from beyond IE


Author:  finlay [ Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tidbits from beyond IE


Author:  Drydic [ Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tidbits from beyond IE


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