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zompist bboard • View topic - An introduction to Catalan

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 12:34 pm 
Lebom
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Bugger, this is coming thick and fast. I've got a lot of reading to do.

BTW Izo, does Catalan have truly equal status and is as widely spoken as Spanish in Barcelona? Do most of the population speak both?

Very good work anyway.

Ghost 8)


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 11:29 am 
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 11:44 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:43 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:58 pm 
Avisaru
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An observation: I'm watching TVCi for the past two weeks and Catalan slightly reminds me of Portuguse (because of the 'hard' L and because they seem to pronounce some consonants with more emphasis like the Ports do), if spanish people sound as if they're lisping (due to the voinced and unvoiced th) the catalan speakers are even worse.

And I just by listening to it I think native spanish speakers would not be able to understand it.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:24 am 
Smeric
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:24 am 
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MORFOLOGIA VERBAL "VERBAL MORPHOLOGY"

The verb is a variable word that presents lots of flexionated forms.

1) The formes compostes "composed forms" are obtained combining an auxiliary verb (haver, hàurer "to have" or ser "to be") and the participle of the conjugated verb.

He llegit "I have read"
Seran classificats "they will be classified"

2) The periphrastical forms are obtained combining the present d'indicatiu of the verb anar "to go" (with analogic regulation on 1st and 2nd pl persons) with the infinitve of the conjugated verb.

Vaig mirar "I looked"


ESTRUCTURA DEL VERB "STRUCTURE OF THE VERB"

The verb is constituted by the lexical morpheme and the flexional morphemes.

1) The morfema lèxic, also named lexema "lexema", arrel "root" or radical "radical", is the significative part of the verb. The root is invariable in regular verbs, or alternating in irregular ones.

cant -a, -ava, -arà, -i... ("sing" root)
bec; begu -i; bev -ent... ("drink" root)

2) The flexional morphemes, also named morfemes gramaticals or desinència, are the elements added to the lexical morpheme, and they indicate the flexion categories. These categories are: conjugació "conjugation", persona "person", nombre "number", temps "tense", mode "mood" and aspecte "aspect".

a) The number and the person are always represented at the same time.

cantem "we sing"
cantareu "youse will sing"

b) For the non personal forms of the verb, the infinitive and gerund don't have person and number morphemes. The participle doesn't have personal morphemes, but it has number ones, besides the gender morpheme due to its adjectival character.

llegir "to read"
llegint "reading"
llegit, llegida, llegits, llegides "red"


LES CONJUGACIONS "THE CONJUGATIONS"

Depending on the thematic vowel, or conjugation morpheme, that appears on the infinitive, verbs are classified into three conjugations:

1a conjugació Verbs ending in -ar (thematic vowel: -a)
2a conjugació Verbs ending in -er or -re (thematic vowel -e)
3a conjugació Verbs ending in -ir (thematic vowel -i)

We have some verbs ending in -ur (dur, endur) which don't belong to a 4a conjugació. These verbs are conjugated as if they were 2nd conjugation verbs.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:57 am 
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ELS VERBS REGULARS "THE REGULAR VERBS"

The regular verbs have a constant flexion, with no variations, and are conjugated following the conjugation paradigma of the verbs portar (conj. I), perdre and témer (conj. II), dormir (conj. IIIa) and servir (conj. IIIb).


Flexions dels verbs regulars "Conjugation of the regular verbs"

Infinitive
I -ar
II -re, -er
III -ir

Gerund
I -ant
II -ent
III -int

Participle
I -at -ada -ats -ades
II -ut -uda -uts -udes
III -it -ida -its -ides


Mode indicatiu "Indicative mood"

Present
I -o -es -a -em -eu -en
II -o -s -ø -em -eu -en
IIIa -o -s -ø -im -iu -en
IIIb -eixo -eixes -eix -im -iu -eixen

Pretèrit imperfet
I -ava -aves -ava -àvem -àveu -aven
II -ia -ies -ia -íem -íeu -ien
III -ia -ies -ia -íem -íeu -ien

Futur
I -aré -aràs -arà -arem -areu -aran
II (perdre) -ré -ràs -rà -rem -reu -ran
II (témer) -eré -eràs -erà -erem -ereu -eran
III -iré -iràs -irà -irem -ireu -iran

Pretèrit perfet
I -í -ares -à -àrem -àreu -aren
II -í -eres -é -érem -éreu -eren
III -í -ires -í -írem -íreu -iren

Condicional
I -aria -aries -aria -aríem -aríeu -arien
II (perdre) -ria -ries -ria -ríem -ríeu -rien
II (t?mer) -eria -eries -eria -eríem -eríeu -erien
III -iria -iries -iria -iríem -iríeu -irien


Mode subjuntiu "subjunctive mood"

Present
I -i -is -i -em -eu -in
II -i -is -i -em -eu -in
IIIa -i -is -i -im -iu -in
IIIb -eixi -eixis -eixi -im -iu -eixin

Pretèrit imperfet
I -és -essis -és -éssim -éssiu -essin
II -és -essis -és -éssim -éssiu -essin
III -ís -issis -ís -íssim -íssiu -issin


Mode imperatiu
I -a -i -em -eu -in
II -ø -i -em -eu -in
IIIa -ø -i -im -iu -in
IIIb -eix -eixi -im -iu -eixin



Note: the -ø means "no suffix here". Is not a letter of the Catalan alphabet!

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Last edited by Izambri on Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:34 pm 
Avisaru
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In Bulgarije! :D

I also watch Andalucia, TVE, TeleMadrid Sat and Euskal Telebista which for my utter dissatisfaction is NOT in Basque but in spanish, what the...?!<hr>
Just had a brief look at the phonology part, I'm surprised that the catalan 's' doesn't have some different classification.

After listening more carefully for the past two days I found out that it's the way 's' is pronounced that gives the lisping sound of catalan. It's like the greek SsSSSss but it's 'stronger'.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 7:51 pm 
Smeric
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:38 pm 
Avisaru
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I'm getting

Well, certain catalan speakers' <s> is very close to something like "&#952;"


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:52 am 
Smeric
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The most part of catalan verbs belong to conjugation I, which is always regular; only verbs anar "to go" and estar "to stay" are irregulars. Almost all the new verbs are formed following the model of the 1st conjugation.
Some verbs of the 1st conj. change its their last consonant of the root when the suffix begins in e or i. These are the cases:

ç --> c: venço, vences; caçar, cacin
j --> g: menjo, menges; passejar, passegeu
g --> gu: regar, regueu; mastego, masteguessin
c --> qu: pico, piquéssiu; solcar, solquin
gu --> gü: desaiguar, desaigüen; enaiguat, enaigüessis
qu --> qü: adequo, adequava, adeqüis, adeqüen

Conjugation II has less verbs, of which the biggest part have irregularities. Those that are regular follow the conjugation scheme of perdre and témer.
Those verbs belonging to conjugation III are classified into two groups: belong to the conjugation IIIa those verbs known as verbs purs "pure verbs", and belong to the IIIb those known as verbs incoatius "inchoative verbs".
Inchoative verbs add the -eix- infix to the three singular persons and the 3rd of the plural in the present d'indicatiu and the present de subjuntiu, and to the two persons of the singular and the 3rd of the plural of the imperatiu.
Look at the examples:

dormo, dorms, dorm, dormim, dormiu, dormen ("to sleep", pres. ind.)
serveixo, serveixes, serveix, servim, serviu, serveixen ("to serve", pres. ind.)


Verbs purs de la conjugació III "Pure verbs of the 3rd conjugation"
ajupir, bullir, collir, cosir, cruixir, dormir, eixir, escopir, esmunyir, fugir, grunyir, lluir (see note below), morir, munyir, obrir, omplir, pudir, retrunyir, sentir, sortir, tossir
and all their composed forms

Verbs que es poden conjugar en forma pura i en forma incoativa "Verbs that can be conjugated in pure form and inchoative form"
acudir, arrupir-se, brunzir, consumir, lluir (see note below), mentir, percudir, presumir, resumir

Verbs incoatius "Inchoative verbs"
assentir, dissentir
and the rest belonging to the conjugació III


El verb lluir "The verb lluir"
Conjugated in pure form, it has a literal meaning:

Els estels lluen "The stars shine"

Conjugated in inchoative form, it has a figured meaning:

Amb aquest vestit llueixes molt "With this dress you show off a lot"

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Last edited by Izambri on Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:22 am 
Smeric
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ELS VERBS IRREGULARS "THE IRREGULAR VERBS"

The most part of the verbs that don't follow the conjugation scheme for regular verbs belong to conjugation II, though we find some in conjugations I and III.
To stablish classifications for the verbal differences is hard if we don't want to fall in a maze of divisions and subdivisions. Here we stablish the most general peculiarities.
The most significant alterations are produced in the root. They can be:

Orthographical alterations
1) Changes on the writting: venço, vences...
2) The verbs jeure, treure, néixer and heure change the e of the root for an a when this becomes atonic: trec, treus, treu, traiem, traieu, treuen...
3) The verbs collir, cosir, escopir, tossir and sortir change the o for a u when the root becomes tonic: tusso, tusses, tus, tossim, tossiu, tussen...
4) The roots of verbs poder and voler are written with u on the 1st sg. p. of the present d'indicatiu (vull, puc), on the whole present de subjuntiu pugui, puguis, pugui, puguem, pugueu, puguin and on the whole imperative vulgues, vulgui, vulguem, vulgueu, vulguin
5) The verb eixir changes the root eix- for ix- when becomes tonic: ixo, ixes, ix, eixim, eixiu, ixen

Euphonic alterations
1) Appearance of a -d-, sometimes etymological, in the infinitive, the future and the conditional of verbs ended in -l(d)re, -n(d)re and -ler: moldré (inf: moldre), prendré (inf: [b]prendre), valdré (inf: valdre, valer)...
2) Addition of a -d- in the future and conditional of the verbs valer, voler, venir and tenir: valdré, voldrem, vindria, tindreu...

Phonetic alterations
1) Verbs with velarised root
2) Verbs with diphtong in the root

(see below)

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:43 pm 
Smeric
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Verbs with velarised root
Many verbs from conjugations II and III (which don't have the morpheme -o in the 1st sg. p. of the pres. ind.) have a velar sound [k] or [g], written c, g or gu. Examples: entendre "to understand": enten-(d)re --> entenc, entenguessis; venir "to come": venir --> vinc, vingui, vingut...

The verbs that have a velarised root are these:

1) Ended in -ldre: absoldre, condoldre's, dissoldre, doldre, moldre, resoldre, toldre, caldre

And -ndre: aprendre, atendre, dependre, despendre, distendre, encendre, entendre, estendre, fendre, fondre, ofendre, pondre, prendre, pretendre, romandre, suspendre, tondre, vendre and their composed forms (comprendre, correspondre...)

Roots:
a) Pure: dissol-: dissolíem, dissolem...
b) Velarised: dissolc-: dissolc, dissolguis...
c) Euphonic: dissol(d)-: dissoldré, dissoldríeu...

2) Ended in -ler: soler, voler, valer and their composed (equivaler, prevaler)

Roots:
a) Pure: val-: vals, valem...
b) Velarised: valc-: valc, valgui, valguem...
c) Euphonic: val(d)-: valdreu, valdríem...

3) Ended in -éixer: conéixer, paréixer and their composed (desconéixer, aparéixer...)

Roots:
a) Pure: apareix-: apareix, apareixerà...
b) Velarised: aparec-: aparec, apareguéssiu...

4) Verbs estar, dir, dur, tenir and venir

Roots:
a) Pure: est-: estem, estarà...
b) Velarised: estic-: estigui, estiguérem.... They show some irregularities.


Velarisation affects these forms:
1) Present d'indicatiu (1st pl p): entenc, tinc, vinc...
2) Present de subjuntiu (all persons): vulgui, pretengui, vinguem...
3) Pret?rit perfet d'indicatiu (all persons): atenguí, encengueres, begué...
4) Pretèrit imperfet de subjuntiu (all forms): molgués, apareguessis...
5) Imperatiu (3rd sg p and 1st and 3rd pl p): tingui, encenguem...
6) Participle (not all verbs): tingut, apareguda...

But note that the 1st sg person of the present d'indicatiu of the verb voler doesn't have the velarised form: vull.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:09 pm 
Smeric
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Verbs with diphtong in the root
They are verbs of the conjugation II with so many variations that should be considered almost a sole conjugation. Anyway, we can group the next characteristics:

1) Root with diphtong au, eu, iu or ou in the next forms:
a) Infinitive: caure, seure, riure, coure...
b) Present d'indicatiu (2nd and 2rd sg p, and 3rd pl p): seus, seu, seuen...
c) Futur and condicional (all persons): riuré, riuràs...; cauria, cauríem...
d) Imperatiu (2nd sg p): cou, beu, riu...

2) Velarisation (change of the u for a velar sound) in the mentioned forms in the paragraph related to velarised root: seure --> sec, segui, segueres, segués, segut...

3) Root of the gerund with three variants.
beure --> bevent (the u becomes v)
seure --> seient (the u becomes i)
coure --> coent (the u disappears)


Observations:

1) The verb viure and its composed forms are a special case because they change the u for sc or squ: viure --> visc, visqui
2) Some verb of this group has a root with v also in the 1st and 2nd pl persons of the present d'indicatiu and in the 2nd pl person of the imperatiu: devem, moveu, vivia, escrivíeu...


The verbs that have a diphtong in the root present certain changes in their roots:

1) Change of the u for v on the gerund: beure, deure, escriure, heure, moure, ploure, viure and their composeds (commoure, remoure, conviure...)

Roots:
a) pure: beu-: beure, beuen...
b) velarised: bec-: bec, beguin...
c) of the gerund: bev-: bevent, bevia...

2) Disappearance of the u from the gerund: cloure, coure, plaure, riure, noure, raure and their composed forms (concloure, somriure...)

Roots:
a) pure: cou-: coure, couren...
b) velarised: coc-: coc, coguin...
c) of the gerund: co-: coent, coem...

3) Change of the u for consonantal i in the gerund: caure, creure, jaure, jeure, lleure, seure, traure, treure, veure and their composed forms (recaure, distreure, contreure...)

Roots:
a) pure: seu-: seure, seuen...
b) velarised: sec-: sec, seguin...
c) of the gerund: sei-: seient, seiem...

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Last edited by Izambri on Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:35 pm 
Smeric
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L'IMPERATIU "THE IMPERATIVE"

The imperatiu, in regular and many irregular verbs, has coincidental forms with the present d'indicatiu and the present de subjuntiu. Look at the correspondences:

Present d'indicatiu: escric, escrius, escriu, escrivim, escriviu, escriuen
Imperatiu: escriu, escrigui, escriguem, escriviu, escriguin
Present de subjuntiu: escrigui, escriguis, escrigui, escriguem, escrigueu, escriguin

It's useful to look at the correspondences between the persons of the imperatiu, specially between the 2nd sg person and the 2nd pl person:

coneix, conegui, coneguem, coneixeu, coneguin

coneix = coneixeu
conegui = coneguem, coneguin

The verbs voler, poder, veure, estar, ser, dir and saber have two irregularities in the imperatiu:

1) Appearance of a termination -s in the 2nd sg person: vulgues, pugues, veges / ves, estigues, sigues, digues, sàpigues
2) All persons have the velarised root: estigues, estigui, estiguem, estigueu, estiguin

In negative orders, the imperatiu is not used, but the present de subjuntiu; so, in the verbs with velarised root we'll use the velarised forms.

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Last edited by Izambri on Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:23 pm 
Smeric
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EL PARTICIPI I EL GERUNDI "THE PARTICIPLE AND THE GERUND"

The regular termination of the gerund is -ant, -ent, -int, and the one of the participle is -at, -ada; -ut, -uda; -it, -ida, for conjugations I, II and III respectively. There is, though, an important quantity of irregular participles, with very different forms.


Most used irregular gerunds and participles

Infinitive gerund participle
admetre "to admit"; admetent; admès, admesa
aprendre "to learn"; aprenent; après, apresa
atènyer "to reach"; atenyent; atès, atesa
cloure "to close"; cloent; clos, closa
cobrir "to cover"; cobrint; cobert, coberta
complir "to carry out"; complint; complert, complerta
confondre "to blur"; confonent; confós, confosa
constrènyer "to compel"; constrenyent; constret, constreta
coure "to bake"; coent; cuit, cuita; cogut, coguda
créixer "to grow"; creixent; crescut, crescuda
dependre "to depend on"; depenent; depès, depesa
descloure "to open"; descloent; desclòs, desclosa
dissoldre "to dissolve"; dissolent; dissolt, dissolta
empènyer "to push"; empenyent; empès, empesa
encendre "to light"; encenent; encès, encesa
entendre "to understand"; entenent; entès, entesa
escriure "to write"; escrivint; escrit, escrita
establir "to establish"; establint; establert, establerta
estrènyer "to narrow"; estrenyent; estret, estreta
fendre "to cleave, to split"; fent; fes, fesa
fondre "to fuse, to melt down"; fonent; fos, fosa
imprimir "to imprint"; imprimint; imprès, impresa
moldre "to grind, to crush"; molent; mòlt, mòlta
morir "to die"; morint; mort, morta
néixer "to born"; naixent; nascut, nascuda
obrir "to open"; obrint; obert, oberta
ofendre "to offend"; ofenent; ofès, ofesa
oferir "to offer"; oferint, ofert, oferta
ometre "to omit"; ometent; omès, omesa
omplir "to fill"; omplint; omplert, omplerta
pertànyer "to belong to"; pertanyent; pertangut, pertanguda
plànyer "to pity"; planyent; planyut, planyuda; plangut, planguda
pondre "to lay"; ponent; post, posta
prendre "to take"; prenent; pres, presa
pretendre "to pretend"; pretenent; pretès, pretesa
prometre "to promise"; prometent; promès, promesa
remetre "to remit"; remetent; remès, remesa
resoldre "to resolve"; resolent; resolt, resolta
respondre "to answer"; responent; respost, resposta
restrènyer "to restrict"; restrenyent; restret, restreta
romandre "to remain"; romanent; romàs, romasa
ser o ésser "to be"; sent (essent); estat, estada; sigut, siguda
sofrir "to suffer"; sofrint; sofert, soferta
sotmetre "to subject to one's will"; sotmetent; sotmès, sotmesa
suplir "to replace"; suplint; suplert, suplerta
tòrcer "to twist"; torcent; tort, torta
treure "to remove"; traient; tret, treta
viure "to live"; vivint; viscut, viscuda

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Last edited by Izambri on Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: GRAM?TICA CATALANA
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:01 pm 
Niš
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Ever struggled when it comes to writing Catalan numbers out in full? Not sure where to put your hyphens? Not sure whether we're living in 'dos mil cinc' or 'dos mil i cinc''? Never fear, help is at hand thanks to a rather nifty little program which lets you enter any figure between 1 and 1,000,000,000,000,000 and promptly returns the number written out in full in Catalan.



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 Post subject: Re: GRAM?TICA CATALANA
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 8:20 pm 
Smeric
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:34 am 
Sanci
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:34 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 7:00 am 
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