An introduction to Catalan

The best topics from Languages & Linguistics, kept on a permanent basis.
User avatar
Ghost
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2003 10:59 am
Location: Great Britannia
Contact:

Post by Ghost »

Bugger, this is coming thick and fast. I've got a lot of reading to do.

BTW Izo, does Catalan have truly equal status and is as widely spoken as Spanish in Barcelona? Do most of the population speak both?

Very good work anyway.

Ghost 8)
[url=http://www.emalaith.com/census.html]ZBB Census 2006[/url]

User avatar
Izambri
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:27 pm
Location: Catalonia

Post by Izambri »

Ghost wrote:BTW Izo, does Catalan have truly equal status and is as widely spoken as Spanish in Barcelona? Do most of the population speak both?

The most part of people (not only in Barna, but also in Catalonia) speak both languages. Barcelona, though, is a big city, and has lots of immigrants, the biggest part being Spanish or Latin-American, so most of them (particularly the last ones) doesn't know to speak Catalan.
Anyway, you won't have any problem speaking with natives if you know only Catalan, or only Spanish.

As for the equal status of Catalan and Spanish... hehe... well, that's another history. If we are talking about the official status of both languages, Catalan has less representation in front of Spanish, though the two languages are co-official in Catalonia.

If you're worried about what language to use in Barcelona, you can use Spanish if you want or you feel more comfortable with it, no problem. As I said, the natives will understand you. On the other hand, if you use Catalan you will demonstrate to the natives (this is, we) that Anglophones are also respectful with minoritarian cultures. And, for that, you will obtain the infinite gratitude and respect from the natives. That's for sure. :D
Un llapis mai dibuixa sense una mà.

User avatar
Ghost
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2003 10:59 am
Location: Great Britannia
Contact:

Post by Ghost »

Izopiru wrote:If you're worried about what language to use in Barcelona, you can use Spanish if you want or you feel more comfortable with it, no problem. As I said, the natives will understand you. On the other hand, if you use Catalan you will demonstrate to the natives (this is, we) that Anglophones are also respectful with minoritarian cultures. And, for that, you will obtain the infinite gratitude and respect from the natives. That's for sure. :D


Well, I do appreciate minority cultures, but sadly I'd imagine my Spanish will barely be up to scratch, let alone my Catalan. (which I wish to learn seriously very much, but good resources are hard to aquire beyond yourself. :D I was suprised to see there's a TY Catalan, but that's not really what I'm after.

Thanks,
Zak :)
[url=http://www.emalaith.com/census.html]ZBB Census 2006[/url]

User avatar
Izambri
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:27 pm
Location: Catalonia

Post by Izambri »

ELS QUANTITATIUS "THE QUANTITATIVES"

The quantitative quantifiers indicate the amount of a whole of persons or things, without specifying it numerically.
They always precede the determinated substantive.

There are variable quantitatives in gender and number; there are variables only in number, and there are invariables. Moreover, some of them can be followed by the preposition de "of", some other don't have the preposition, and only the quantitative gens must have it. Look at the examples:

Mengem molt (de) pa "We eat much bread"
Heretà bastants (de) diners "S(he) inherited enough money"
Ja hi ha massa gent aquí dins "There is much people here inside"
No tinc gens de pa "I don't have bread"

The most used quantitatives are:

Code: Select all

                 Variables
       singular             plural
masculine  femenine   masculine  femenine
  molt      molta      molts     moltes (de)
  poc       poca       pocs      poques (de)
  quant    quanta     quants    quantes (de)
  tant     tanta     tants     tantes (de)
      bastant              bastants (de)
        gaire                gaires (de)
___________________________________
         Invariables
més (de)  massa  menys (de)
força  gens de  prou (de)


molt "much, many"; poc "less"; quant "as much as"; uns quants "a few"; tant "so much, as much, so many, as many"; bastant "enough"; gaire "some, many, much"; més "more"; massa "too much, too many"; menys "less"; força "much, many"; gens de "any, nothing"; prou "enough, no more"

Note that:

1) The forms quants, quantes (only in plural) are preceded by the indefinite uns, unes.

Llegiran uns quants contes "They'll read some tales"

2) Gaire and gens only appear in negative, dubitative and interrogative sentences, or are preceded by the preposition sense "without".

Hi havia gaire gent a la festa? "Was there much people at the party?"
No tinc gens de gana "I don't have hunger" -> "I'm not hungry"
Menja sense gens de pa "S(he) eats without bread"

3) The language also has locutions with a similar significance as quantitatives. If it's said una pila de, un gavadal de, una colla de, un reguitzell de... we're talking about a whole of things without quantifying it numerically.

Agafarem una mica de pa i un grapat d'ametlles "We'll take some bread and a handful of almonds"
Last edited by Izambri on Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Un llapis mai dibuixa sense una mà.

User avatar
Izambri
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:27 pm
Location: Catalonia

Post by Izambri »

ELS INDEFINITS "THE INDEFINITES"

The indefinite quantifiers are used to refer to a noun in a vague, indefined manner, without specifying data.

Some are variable in gender and number; other only are variable in number or gender, and some other are invariable.

Només algun diari gosa publicar certes notícies "Only few newspapers dare to publish certain news"
Cada alumna presentarà un treball "Every pupil will show one work"

The most used indefinites are:

Code: Select all

Variables
       singular             plural
masculine   femenine   masculine   femenine
   un         una        uns        unes
  algun      alguna     alguns     algunes
   tot        tota       tots       totes
  mateix    mateixa    mateixos    mateixes
  cert       certa      certs        certes
  altre     altra             altres
                      cadascun     cadascuna
                       cada un     cada una
                        ambdós     ambdues
          tal                  tals
qualsevol  qualsevulla  qualssevol  qualssevulla

Invariables
cada  cap  sengles


un "one, a, an"; algun "some"; tot "every"; mateix "same, very"; cert "certain"; altre "other"; cadascun, cada un "everyone, everything"; ambdós "both"; tal "such"; qualsevol "any, anybody, anyone"; cada "every"; cap "any"; sengles "both"

Note that:

1) Altre, altra, altres are preceded in the most general use by an article or some other determinant.

Resoldré l'altre / un altre / aquell altre / qualsevol altre problema "I'll resolve the other / another / that other / any other problem"

2) Tot, tota, tots, totes can precede immediately the substantive.

Tota intervenció quirúrgica comporta un risc "Every surgical operation implies a risk"

They can act as especificators of the whole nominal syntagma.

Tots els / tot els meus / tots aquells / tots quatre amics vindran "All / all my / all these / all four friends will come"

When goes before the name of a city, country, nation it's used invariable.

Tot Barcelona és a les fosques "All Barcelona is in the dark"

3) Cap is often used in negative, interrogative and conditional sentences.

No vaig rebre cap carta "I didn't receive any letter"
Que tens cap llapis vermell? "Do you have a red pencil?"
Si tens cap idea, avisa'm "If you have some idea, tell me"
Last edited by Izambri on Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Un llapis mai dibuixa sense una mà.

User avatar
Izambri
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:27 pm
Location: Catalonia

Post by Izambri »

ELS INTERROGATIUS "THE INTERROGATIVES"

The interrogatives are:

Code: Select all

   singular          plural
 masc     fem      masc     fem
 quin    quina     quins   quines
quant   quanta   quants   quantes


quin "what, which"
quant "how much, how many"

Examples:

Quantes freses vols? "How many strawberries do you want?"
Amb quin vol tornaràs? "With which fly you'll come back?"

Note that:

1) The same forms used as interrogatives work as exclamatives:

Quin paio més patètic! "What a pathetic guy!"
Quanta aigua! "How much water!"

2) Other words work as interrogatives: què "what", qui "who", quan "when", com "how", on "where"; per què "why"
Last edited by Izambri on Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Un llapis mai dibuixa sense una mà.

User avatar
Izambri
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:27 pm
Location: Catalonia

Post by Izambri »

ELS PRONOMS PERSONALS "THE PERSONAL PRONOUNS"

The personal pronouns are classified into forts "strong" (with intensity accent) and febles "weak" (without intensity accent), according to its function in the sentence.

Pronoms personals forts

Code: Select all

              singular          plural
1st person   jo, mi             nosaltres
2nd person  tu, vós, vostè     vosaltres, vostès
3rd person   ell, ella, si     ells, elles, si


jo "I"; mi "me"; nosaltres "we"; tu "you"; vós "you (very polite)"; vostè "you (polite)"; vosaltres "youse"; vostès "youse (polite)"; ell "he" ella "she" si "him, her, it"

Pronoms personals febles

Code: Select all

              singular           plural
1st person       em               ens
2nd person      et                 us
3rd person   el, la, li     els, les, els
                     ho, en, es


Pronoms adverbials

Code: Select all

en
hi



Note that:

1) The personal pronouns are closely related to the syntactical structure, since the strong pronouns equal an independent nominal syntagma, and the weak pronouns are added, as atonic words, in front or behind the verb, creating an accentual unity.

La directora de l'obra dóna instruccions als actors "The director of the play gives instructions to the actors"
Ella els dóna instruccions "She gives instructions to them"

Ella = La directora de l'obra
Els = els actors


2) In a polite speech are used vós, vostè, vostès. Vós equals the the 2nd singular person (you) and agrees with the verb, the possessives, the weak pronouns... in 2nd plural person.

Vós viviu lluny, a la vostra casa "You-(polite) live-(2nd pl p) far, in your-(2nd pl p) house"

Vostè and its plural vostès equal, respectively, the 2nd singular person (you) and the 2nd plural person (youse), and agree with the verb in 3rd singular person and 3rd plural person respectively.

Vostè viu lluny "You-(polite) live-(3rd sg p) far"
Vostès viatgen molt "You-(polite) travel-(3rd pl p) a lot"
Last edited by Izambri on Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Un llapis mai dibuixa sense una mà.

User avatar
Io
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 591
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 5:00 am
Location: a.s.l. p.l.s.
Contact:

Post by Io »

An observation: I'm watching TVCi for the past two weeks and Catalan slightly reminds me of Portuguse (because of the 'hard' L and because they seem to pronounce some consonants with more emphasis like the Ports do), if spanish people sound as if they're lisping (due to the voinced and unvoiced th) the catalan speakers are even worse.

And I just by listening to it I think native spanish speakers would not be able to understand it.
<King> Ivo, you phrase things in the most comedic manner

[quote="Jal"][quote="jme"]Thats just rude and unneeded.[/quote]That sums up Io, basically. Yet, we all love him.[/quote]

User avatar
Izambri
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:27 pm
Location: Catalonia

Post by Izambri »

Io wrote:An observation: I'm watching TVCi for the past two weeks and Catalan slightly reminds me of Portuguse (because of the 'hard' L and because they seem to pronounce some consonants with more emphasis like the Ports do), if spanish people sound as if they're lisping (due to the voinced and unvoiced th) the catalan speakers are even worse.

And I just by listening to it I think native spanish speakers would not be able to understand it.

Do you watch TVCi? In what country? :D
Un llapis mai dibuixa sense una mà.

User avatar
Izambri
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:27 pm
Location: Catalonia

Post by Izambri »

MORFOLOGIA VERBAL "VERBAL MORPHOLOGY"

The verb is a variable word that presents lots of flexionated forms.

1) The formes compostes "composed forms" are obtained combining an auxiliary verb (haver, hàurer "to have" or ser "to be") and the participle of the conjugated verb.

He llegit "I have read"
Seran classificats "they will be classified"

2) The periphrastical forms are obtained combining the present d'indicatiu of the verb anar "to go" (with analogic regulation on 1st and 2nd pl persons) with the infinitve of the conjugated verb.

Vaig mirar "I looked"


ESTRUCTURA DEL VERB "STRUCTURE OF THE VERB"

The verb is constituted by the lexical morpheme and the flexional morphemes.

1) The morfema lèxic, also named lexema "lexema", arrel "root" or radical "radical", is the significative part of the verb. The root is invariable in regular verbs, or alternating in irregular ones.

cant -a, -ava, -arà, -i... ("sing" root)
bec; begu -i; bev -ent... ("drink" root)

2) The flexional morphemes, also named morfemes gramaticals or desinència, are the elements added to the lexical morpheme, and they indicate the flexion categories. These categories are: conjugació "conjugation", persona "person", nombre "number", temps "tense", mode "mood" and aspecte "aspect".

a) The number and the person are always represented at the same time.

cantem "we sing"
cantareu "youse will sing"

b) For the non personal forms of the verb, the infinitive and gerund don't have person and number morphemes. The participle doesn't have personal morphemes, but it has number ones, besides the gender morpheme due to its adjectival character.

llegir "to read"
llegint "reading"
llegit, llegida, llegits, llegides "red"


LES CONJUGACIONS "THE CONJUGATIONS"

Depending on the thematic vowel, or conjugation morpheme, that appears on the infinitive, verbs are classified into three conjugations:

1a conjugació Verbs ending in -ar (thematic vowel: -a)
2a conjugació Verbs ending in -er or -re (thematic vowel -e)
3a conjugació Verbs ending in -ir (thematic vowel -i)

We have some verbs ending in -ur (dur, endur) which don't belong to a 4a conjugació. These verbs are conjugated as if they were 2nd conjugation verbs.
Last edited by Izambri on Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Un llapis mai dibuixa sense una mà.

User avatar
Izambri
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:27 pm
Location: Catalonia

Post by Izambri »

ELS VERBS REGULARS "THE REGULAR VERBS"

The regular verbs have a constant flexion, with no variations, and are conjugated following the conjugation paradigma of the verbs portar (conj. I), perdre and témer (conj. II), dormir (conj. IIIa) and servir (conj. IIIb).


Flexions dels verbs regulars "Conjugation of the regular verbs"

Infinitive
I -ar
II -re, -er
III -ir

Gerund
I -ant
II -ent
III -int

Participle
I -at -ada -ats -ades
II -ut -uda -uts -udes
III -it -ida -its -ides


Mode indicatiu "Indicative mood"

Present
I -o -es -a -em -eu -en
II -o -s -ø -em -eu -en
IIIa -o -s -ø -im -iu -en
IIIb -eixo -eixes -eix -im -iu -eixen

Pretèrit imperfet
I -ava -aves -ava -àvem -àveu -aven
II -ia -ies -ia -íem -íeu -ien
III -ia -ies -ia -íem -íeu -ien

Futur
I -aré -aràs -arà -arem -areu -aran
II (perdre) -ré -ràs -rà -rem -reu -ran
II (témer) -eré -eràs -erà -erem -ereu -eran
III -iré -iràs -irà -irem -ireu -iran

Pretèrit perfet
I -í -ares -à -àrem -àreu -aren
II -í -eres -é -érem -éreu -eren
III -í -ires -í -írem -íreu -iren

Condicional
I -aria -aries -aria -aríem -aríeu -arien
II (perdre) -ria -ries -ria -ríem -ríeu -rien
II (t?mer) -eria -eries -eria -eríem -eríeu -erien
III -iria -iries -iria -iríem -iríeu -irien


Mode subjuntiu "subjunctive mood"

Present
I -i -is -i -em -eu -in
II -i -is -i -em -eu -in
IIIa -i -is -i -im -iu -in
IIIb -eixi -eixis -eixi -im -iu -eixin

Pretèrit imperfet
I -és -essis -és -éssim -éssiu -essin
II -és -essis -és -éssim -éssiu -essin
III -ís -issis -ís -íssim -íssiu -issin


Mode imperatiu
I -a -i -em -eu -in
II -ø -i -em -eu -in
IIIa -ø -i -im -iu -in
IIIb -eix -eixi -im -iu -eixin



Note: the -ø means "no suffix here". Is not a letter of the Catalan alphabet!
Last edited by Izambri on Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Un llapis mai dibuixa sense una mà.

User avatar
Io
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 591
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 5:00 am
Location: a.s.l. p.l.s.
Contact:

Post by Io »

In Bulgarije! :D

I also watch Andalucia, TVE, TeleMadrid Sat and Euskal Telebista which for my utter dissatisfaction is NOT in Basque but in spanish, what the...?!<hr>
Just had a brief look at the phonology part, I'm surprised that the catalan 's' doesn't have some different classification.

After listening more carefully for the past two days I found out that it's the way 's' is pronounced that gives the lisping sound of catalan. It's like the greek SsSSSss but it's 'stronger'.
<King> Ivo, you phrase things in the most comedic manner

[quote="Jal"][quote="jme"]Thats just rude and unneeded.[/quote]That sums up Io, basically. Yet, we all love him.[/quote]

User avatar
Izambri
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:27 pm
Location: Catalonia

Post by Izambri »

Io wrote:In Bulgarije! :D

I also watch Andalucia, TVE, TeleMadrid Sat and Euskal Telebista which for my utter dissatisfaction is NOT in Basque but in spanish, what the...?!

What channel of Euskal Telebista do you see? The channel 1 (ET1) is in Spanish, the two (ET2) is in Basque (or is ET1 in Basque and ET2 in Spanish?). I don't know... :?
Anyway, it's possible you're seeing the international channel of ET, but is very strange that all the programming is in Spanish...

Just had a brief look at the phonology part, I'm surprised that the catalan 's' doesn't have some different classification.

After listening more carefully for the past two days I found out that it's the way 's' is pronounced that gives the lisping sound of catalan. It's like the greek SsSSSss but it's 'stronger'.

Lisping... lisping? For lisping I understand what the Spanishs call ceceo, and Catalan doesn't have ceceo, so I can't see where you hear 'lisping' on Catalan speakers. :?: :|

Though I recognize that the official phonology of Catalan is very simple. We have more consonantal and vocalic sounds than we officialy say. :mrgreen:
Un llapis mai dibuixa sense una mà.

User avatar
Io
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 591
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 5:00 am
Location: a.s.l. p.l.s.
Contact:

Post by Io »

I'm getting this channel

Well, certain catalan speakers' <s> is very close to something like "&#952;"
<King> Ivo, you phrase things in the most comedic manner

[quote="Jal"][quote="jme"]Thats just rude and unneeded.[/quote]That sums up Io, basically. Yet, we all love him.[/quote]

User avatar
Izambri
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:27 pm
Location: Catalonia

Post by Izambri »

The most part of catalan verbs belong to conjugation I, which is always regular; only verbs anar "to go" and estar "to stay" are irregulars. Almost all the new verbs are formed following the model of the 1st conjugation.
Some verbs of the 1st conj. change its their last consonant of the root when the suffix begins in e or i. These are the cases:

ç --> c: venço, vences; caçar, cacin
j --> g: menjo, menges; passejar, passegeu
g --> gu: regar, regueu; mastego, masteguessin
c --> qu: pico, piquéssiu; solcar, solquin
gu --> gü: desaiguar, desaigüen; enaiguat, enaigüessis
qu --> qü: adequo, adequava, adeqüis, adeqüen


Conjugation II has less verbs, of which the biggest part have irregularities. Those that are regular follow the conjugation scheme of perdre and témer.
Those verbs belonging to conjugation III are classified into two groups: belong to the conjugation IIIa those verbs known as verbs purs "pure verbs", and belong to the IIIb those known as verbs incoatius "inchoative verbs".
Inchoative verbs add the -eix- infix to the three singular persons and the 3rd of the plural in the present d'indicatiu and the present de subjuntiu, and to the two persons of the singular and the 3rd of the plural of the imperatiu.
Look at the examples:

dormo, dorms, dorm, dormim, dormiu, dormen ("to sleep", pres. ind.)
serveixo, serveixes, serveix, servim, serviu, serveixen ("to serve", pres. ind.)


Verbs purs de la conjugació III "Pure verbs of the 3rd conjugation"
ajupir, bullir, collir, cosir, cruixir, dormir, eixir, escopir, esmunyir, fugir, grunyir, lluir (see note below), morir, munyir, obrir, omplir, pudir, retrunyir, sentir, sortir, tossir
and all their composed forms

Verbs que es poden conjugar en forma pura i en forma incoativa "Verbs that can be conjugated in pure form and inchoative form"
acudir, arrupir-se, brunzir, consumir, lluir (see note below), mentir, percudir, presumir, resumir

Verbs incoatius "Inchoative verbs"
assentir, dissentir
and the rest belonging to the conjugació III


El verb lluir "The verb lluir"
Conjugated in pure form, it has a literal meaning:

Els estels lluen "The stars shine"

Conjugated in inchoative form, it has a figured meaning:

Amb aquest vestit llueixes molt "With this dress you show off a lot"
Last edited by Izambri on Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Un llapis mai dibuixa sense una mà.

User avatar
Izambri
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:27 pm
Location: Catalonia

Post by Izambri »

ELS VERBS IRREGULARS "THE IRREGULAR VERBS"

The most part of the verbs that don't follow the conjugation scheme for regular verbs belong to conjugation II, though we find some in conjugations I and III.
To stablish classifications for the verbal differences is hard if we don't want to fall in a maze of divisions and subdivisions. Here we stablish the most general peculiarities.
The most significant alterations are produced in the root. They can be:

Orthographical alterations
1) Changes on the writting: venço, vences...
2) The verbs jeure, treure, néixer and heure change the e of the root for an a when this becomes atonic: trec, treus, treu, traiem, traieu, treuen...
3) The verbs collir, cosir, escopir, tossir and sortir change the o for a u when the root becomes tonic: tusso, tusses, tus, tossim, tossiu, tussen...
4) The roots of verbs poder and voler are written with u on the 1st sg. p. of the present d'indicatiu (vull, puc), on the whole present de subjuntiu pugui, puguis, pugui, puguem, pugueu, puguin and on the whole imperative vulgues, vulgui, vulguem, vulgueu, vulguin
5) The verb eixir changes the root eix- for ix- when becomes tonic: ixo, ixes, ix, eixim, eixiu, ixen

Euphonic alterations
1) Appearance of a -d-, sometimes etymological, in the infinitive, the future and the conditional of verbs ended in -l(d)re, -n(d)re and -ler: moldré (inf: moldre), prendré (inf: [b]prendre), valdré (inf: valdre, valer)...
2) Addition of a -d- in the future and conditional of the verbs valer, voler, venir and tenir: valdré, voldrem, vindria, tindreu...

Phonetic alterations
1) Verbs with velarised root
2) Verbs with diphtong in the root

(see below)
Last edited by Izambri on Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Un llapis mai dibuixa sense una mà.

User avatar
Izambri
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:27 pm
Location: Catalonia

Post by Izambri »

Verbs with velarised root
Many verbs from conjugations II and III (which don't have the morpheme -o in the 1st sg. p. of the pres. ind.) have a velar sound [k] or [g], written c, g or gu. Examples: entendre "to understand": enten-(d)re --> entenc, entenguessis; venir "to come": venir --> vinc, vingui, vingut...

The verbs that have a velarised root are these:

1) Ended in -ldre: absoldre, condoldre's, dissoldre, doldre, moldre, resoldre, toldre, caldre

And -ndre: aprendre, atendre, dependre, despendre, distendre, encendre, entendre, estendre, fendre, fondre, ofendre, pondre, prendre, pretendre, romandre, suspendre, tondre, vendre and their composed forms (comprendre, correspondre...)

Roots:
a) Pure: dissol-: dissolíem, dissolem...
b) Velarised: dissolc-: dissolc, dissolguis...
c) Euphonic: dissol(d)-: dissoldré, dissoldríeu...

2) Ended in -ler: soler, voler, valer and their composed (equivaler, prevaler)

Roots:
a) Pure: val-: vals, valem...
b) Velarised: valc-: valc, valgui, valguem...
c) Euphonic: val(d)-: valdreu, valdríem...

3) Ended in -éixer: conéixer, paréixer and their composed (desconéixer, aparéixer...)

Roots:
a) Pure: apareix-: apareix, apareixerà...
b) Velarised: aparec-: aparec, apareguéssiu...

4) Verbs estar, dir, dur, tenir and venir

Roots:
a) Pure: est-: estem, estarà...
b) Velarised: estic-: estigui, estiguérem.... They show some irregularities.


Velarisation affects these forms:
1) Present d'indicatiu (1st pl p): entenc, tinc, vinc...
2) Present de subjuntiu (all persons): vulgui, pretengui, vinguem...
3) Pret?rit perfet d'indicatiu (all persons): atenguí, encengueres, begué...
4) Pretèrit imperfet de subjuntiu (all forms): molgués, apareguessis...
5) Imperatiu (3rd sg p and 1st and 3rd pl p): tingui, encenguem...
6) Participle (not all verbs): tingut, apareguda...

But note that the 1st sg person of the present d'indicatiu of the verb voler doesn't have the velarised form: vull.
Last edited by Izambri on Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Un llapis mai dibuixa sense una mà.

User avatar
Izambri
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:27 pm
Location: Catalonia

Post by Izambri »

Verbs with diphtong in the root
They are verbs of the conjugation II with so many variations that should be considered almost a sole conjugation. Anyway, we can group the next characteristics:

1) Root with diphtong au, eu, iu or ou in the next forms:
a) Infinitive: caure, seure, riure, coure...
b) Present d'indicatiu (2nd and 2rd sg p, and 3rd pl p): seus, seu, seuen...
c) Futur and condicional (all persons): riuré, riuràs...; cauria, cauríem...
d) Imperatiu (2nd sg p): cou, beu, riu...

2) Velarisation (change of the u for a velar sound) in the mentioned forms in the paragraph related to velarised root: seure --> sec, segui, segueres, segués, segut...

3) Root of the gerund with three variants.
beure --> bevent (the u becomes v)
seure --> seient (the u becomes i)
coure --> coent (the u disappears)


Observations:

1) The verb viure and its composed forms are a special case because they change the u for sc or squ: viure --> visc, visqui
2) Some verb of this group has a root with v also in the 1st and 2nd pl persons of the present d'indicatiu and in the 2nd pl person of the imperatiu: devem, moveu, vivia, escrivíeu...


The verbs that have a diphtong in the root present certain changes in their roots:

1) Change of the u for v on the gerund: beure, deure, escriure, heure, moure, ploure, viure and their composeds (commoure, remoure, conviure...)

Roots:
a) pure: beu-: beure, beuen...
b) velarised: bec-: bec, beguin...
c) of the gerund: bev-: bevent, bevia...

2) Disappearance of the u from the gerund: cloure, coure, plaure, riure, noure, raure and their composed forms (concloure, somriure...)

Roots:
a) pure: cou-: coure, couren...
b) velarised: coc-: coc, coguin...
c) of the gerund: co-: coent, coem...

3) Change of the u for consonantal i in the gerund: caure, creure, jaure, jeure, lleure, seure, traure, treure, veure and their composed forms (recaure, distreure, contreure...)

Roots:
a) pure: seu-: seure, seuen...
b) velarised: sec-: sec, seguin...
c) of the gerund: sei-: seient, seiem...
Last edited by Izambri on Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
Un llapis mai dibuixa sense una mà.

User avatar
Izambri
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:27 pm
Location: Catalonia

Post by Izambri »

L'IMPERATIU "THE IMPERATIVE"

The imperatiu, in regular and many irregular verbs, has coincidental forms with the present d'indicatiu and the present de subjuntiu. Look at the correspondences:

Present d'indicatiu: escric, escrius, escriu, escrivim, escriviu, escriuen
Imperatiu: escriu, escrigui, escriguem, escriviu, escriguin
Present de subjuntiu: escrigui, escriguis, escrigui, escriguem, escrigueu, escriguin

It's useful to look at the correspondences between the persons of the imperatiu, specially between the 2nd sg person and the 2nd pl person:

coneix, conegui, coneguem, coneixeu, coneguin

coneix = coneixeu
conegui = coneguem, coneguin

The verbs voler, poder, veure, estar, ser, dir and saber have two irregularities in the imperatiu:

1) Appearance of a termination -s in the 2nd sg person: vulgues, pugues, veges / ves, estigues, sigues, digues, sàpigues
2) All persons have the velarised root: estigues, estigui, estiguem, estigueu, estiguin

In negative orders, the imperatiu is not used, but the present de subjuntiu; so, in the verbs with velarised root we'll use the velarised forms.
Last edited by Izambri on Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Un llapis mai dibuixa sense una mà.

User avatar
Izambri
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:27 pm
Location: Catalonia

Post by Izambri »

EL PARTICIPI I EL GERUNDI "THE PARTICIPLE AND THE GERUND"

The regular termination of the gerund is -ant, -ent, -int, and the one of the participle is -at, -ada; -ut, -uda; -it, -ida, for conjugations I, II and III respectively. There is, though, an important quantity of irregular participles, with very different forms.


Most used irregular gerunds and participles

Infinitive gerund participle
admetre "to admit"; admetent; admès, admesa
aprendre "to learn"; aprenent; après, apresa
atènyer "to reach"; atenyent; atès, atesa
cloure "to close"; cloent; clos, closa
cobrir "to cover"; cobrint; cobert, coberta
complir "to carry out"; complint; complert, complerta
confondre "to blur"; confonent; confós, confosa
constrènyer "to compel"; constrenyent; constret, constreta
coure "to bake"; coent; cuit, cuita; cogut, coguda
créixer "to grow"; creixent; crescut, crescuda
dependre "to depend on"; depenent; depès, depesa
descloure "to open"; descloent; desclòs, desclosa
dissoldre "to dissolve"; dissolent; dissolt, dissolta
empènyer "to push"; empenyent; empès, empesa
encendre "to light"; encenent; encès, encesa
entendre "to understand"; entenent; entès, entesa
escriure "to write"; escrivint; escrit, escrita
establir "to establish"; establint; establert, establerta
estrènyer "to narrow"; estrenyent; estret, estreta
fendre "to cleave, to split"; fent; fes, fesa
fondre "to fuse, to melt down"; fonent; fos, fosa
imprimir "to imprint"; imprimint; imprès, impresa
moldre "to grind, to crush"; molent; mòlt, mòlta
morir "to die"; morint; mort, morta
néixer "to born"; naixent; nascut, nascuda
obrir "to open"; obrint; obert, oberta
ofendre "to offend"; ofenent; ofès, ofesa
oferir "to offer"; oferint, ofert, oferta
ometre "to omit"; ometent; omès, omesa
omplir "to fill"; omplint; omplert, omplerta
pertànyer "to belong to"; pertanyent; pertangut, pertanguda
plànyer "to pity"; planyent; planyut, planyuda; plangut, planguda
pondre "to lay"; ponent; post, posta
prendre "to take"; prenent; pres, presa
pretendre "to pretend"; pretenent; pretès, pretesa
prometre "to promise"; prometent; promès, promesa
remetre "to remit"; remetent; remès, remesa
resoldre "to resolve"; resolent; resolt, resolta
respondre "to answer"; responent; respost, resposta
restrènyer "to restrict"; restrenyent; restret, restreta
romandre "to remain"; romanent; romàs, romasa
ser o ésser "to be"; sent (essent); estat, estada; sigut, siguda
sofrir "to suffer"; sofrint; sofert, soferta
sotmetre "to subject to one's will"; sotmetent; sotmès, sotmesa
suplir "to replace"; suplint; suplert, suplerta
tòrcer "to twist"; torcent; tort, torta
treure "to remove"; traient; tret, treta
viure "to live"; vivint; viscut, viscuda
Last edited by Izambri on Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Un llapis mai dibuixa sense una mà.

Tiglatpileser
Niš
Niš
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:53 pm

Re: GRAM?TICA CATALANA

Post by Tiglatpileser »

Ever struggled when it comes to writing Catalan numbers out in full? Not sure where to put your hyphens? Not sure whether we're living in 'dos mil cinc' or 'dos mil i cinc''? Never fear, help is at hand thanks to a rather nifty little program which lets you enter any figure between 1 and 1,000,000,000,000,000 and promptly returns the number written out in full in Catalan.

http://www.goita.net/dilc/numeros.asp

User avatar
Izambri
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:27 pm
Location: Catalonia

Re: GRAM?TICA CATALANA

Post by Izambri »

Tiglatpileser wrote:Ever struggled when it comes to writing Catalan numbers out in full?

It's very easy: we must follow the D-U-C rule!!! :mrgreen:
Un llapis mai dibuixa sense una mà.

JohnQPublik
Sanci
Sanci
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 8:27 pm

Post by JohnQPublik »

Ghost wrote:I was suprised to see there's a TY Catalan, but that's not really what I'm after.

Actually, I own 35 titles in the Teach Yourself series, and without a doubt, the TY Catalan by Alan Yates is far more sophisticated, well-organized, comprehensive, and linguistically oriented than any other TY book I've seen. Clearly Yates has a background in linguistics. He even uses IPA to show pronunciation, instead of the vague and confusing custom phonetic transcription schemes found in most of the other TY books. While the Yates book certainly doesn't approach the level of detail and organization of Izopiru's work here on ZBB, it's by far the most useful of the TY books I've seen. And as far as I know, it's just about the only inexpensive published source in English for learning Catalan. It's what I've used (with the help of a couple of dictionaries) to gain enough familiarity with the language to be able to read websites in Catalan and to be able to read all the signs, instructions, maps and the Avui newspaper when I was last in Barcelona. (I didn't try to actually speak Catalan with els barcelonins, however - I felt more comfortable with Spanish. Next time, I'll actually try to parlar la llengua!)

User avatar
Ghost
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2003 10:59 am
Location: Great Britannia
Contact:

Post by Ghost »

JohnQPublik wrote:
Ghost wrote:I was suprised to see there's a TY Catalan, but that's not really what I'm after.

Actually, I own 35 titles in the Teach Yourself series, and without a doubt, the TY Catalan by Alan Yates is far more sophisticated, well-organized, comprehensive, and linguistically oriented than any other TY book I've seen. Clearly Yates has a background in linguistics. He even uses IPA to show pronunciation, instead of the vague and confusing custom phonetic transcription schemes found in most of the other TY books. While the Yates book certainly doesn't approach the level of detail and organization of Izopiru's work here on ZBB, it's by far the most useful of the TY books I've seen. And as far as I know, it's just about the only inexpensive published source in English for learning Catalan. It's what I've used (with the help of a couple of dictionaries) to gain enough familiarity with the language to be able to read websites in Catalan and to be able to read all the signs, instructions, maps and the Avui newspaper when I was last in Barcelona. (I didn't try to actually speak Catalan with els barcelonins, however - I felt more comfortable with Spanish. Next time, I'll actually try to parlar la llengua!)


Well, with a reccomendation like that, how can I refuse?

Izo, have you got any good translation exercises for when we get proficient? The only thing I can find (and it is quite good) is the Catalan Wikipedia.

Ghost :)
[url=http://www.emalaith.com/census.html]ZBB Census 2006[/url]

User avatar
Izambri
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:27 pm
Location: Catalonia

Post by Izambri »

JohnQPublik wrote:While the Yates book certainly doesn't approach the level of detail and organization of Izopiru's work here on ZBB, it's by far the most useful of the TY books I've seen.

:!: Ei, que em fas posar vermell!!! :oops: :D
Un llapis mai dibuixa sense una mà.

Post Reply