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zompist bboard • View topic - An introduction to Catalan

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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 11:19 am 
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Two Catalan speakers joining on the same day?? I assume you know each other, or that's one scary coincedence. Anyway, Benvingut a ZBB!

Zak :D


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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 11:05 am 
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LA PRONOMINALITZACIÓ "PRONOMINALIZATION"

The pronoms personals "personal pronouns" are words that fix the grammatical persons of the speech. Those of the 1st and 2nd person have a dictic value, while those of the 3rd person refer to a preceding element.

ELS PRONOMS PERSONALS FORTS
The pronoms personals forts "strong personal pronouns" always refer to persons and do the subject function. Preceded by a preposition, do the function of a verbal complement. The mi "me" form only can be used preceded of preposition.

Elles pujaran fins al cim "They-FEM will climb to the peak"
Tots ells estan contra mi "All of them are against me"

We've talked about that, but is always good to remember which are the strong pronouns:

Singular:
1st p: jo "I", mi "me"
2nd p: tu "you", vós and vostè "you" (polite)
3rd: ell "he", ella "she", si "himself, herself"

Plural:
1st p: nosaltres "we", nós "I" (majestatic plural)
2nd p: vosaltres "youse", vostès "youse" (polite)
3rd: ells "they" (masc, neut), elles "they" (fem), si "themselves"

The reflexive or reciprocal pronoun si it's used preceded by a preposition, but is better to use the 'strong' forms of the pronoun when we talk about persons:

Sempre parla de si mateixa or Sempre parla d'ella mateixa "She always talks about herself"
Parlen entre ells "They talk among them"
3 i 4 són nombres primers entre si "3 and 4 are prime numbers between them"

The pronoms forts are less used; they're almost used to emphasize the subject or the complement, also to shed light on some ambiguity:

Us ho diré a vosaltres i a ningú més "I'll tell that to youse and nobody more"
Ella presentarà la conferència; ell no hi assistirà "She will present the conference; he won't attend it"


ELS PRONOMS PERSONALS FEBLES
The pronoms personals febles "weak personal pronouns" can refer to persons and things. They always do the function of verbal complement, though the syntactical function that they do inside the sentence musn't coincide necessarily with the function that does its antecedent. Look at the example:

He trobat en Jordi i li he donat el llibre "I've found George and I've gave the book to him"

en Jordi is the direct object
li refers to George; we can say that in this sentence means "George", but it's an indirect object.

Pronoms personals febles
Singular:
1st p: em
2nd p: et
3rd p: el (masc, neut), la (fem), li

Plural:
1st p: ens
2nd p: us
3rd p: els, les, els

Invariable:
ho, en ,es

Pronoms adverbials
en, hi



The biggest part of the pronoms febles present different forms according to the position they occupy respect of the verb.

Forms of the pronoms personals febles

Strengthened form (before consonant)
em et el la en es ho li ens us els les hi

Apostrophed form (before vowel or h)
m' t' l' l'(la) n' s' ho li ens us els les hi

Reduced forms (after vowel)
'm 't 'l -la 'n 's -ho -li 'ns -us 'ls -les -hi

Full form (after consonant or diphtong)
-me -te -lo -la -ne -se -ho -li -nos -vos -los -les -hi


Placing of the pronouns respect of the verb
1) If the verb is an infinitive, a gerund or an imperative, the pronouns are placed after the verb:

Volia ajudar-te "I wanted to help you"
La televisió, desconnecta-la! "The TV, disconnect it!"

2) With the other verbal foms, the pronouns go before the verb:

La televisió, ja la desconnecto "The TV, I disconnect it now"

3) With the periphrastical forms* the pronouns can go before or after the verb:

Vam explicar-ho or Ho vam explicar "We explained it"

*Remember that the periphrastical form is a especial characteristic of Catalan: it's a construction of past verbs formed with the verb anar "to go" and any conjugated verb. More info on the preceding posts.

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Last edited by Izambri on Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:21 am 
Smeric
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El pronom feble en en funció de subjecte
The en pronoun substitutes the SN (nominal syntagma) that is non-determinated or preceded by a numeral, a quantitative or an indefinite in function of subject. The gender and number of the antecendent isn't a problem. This substitution only occurs in sentences where the subject goes after the verb.

No raja aigua d'aquesta font? No, no en raja gens "Doesn't flow with water this fountain? No, it doesn't flow with water"
Que no hi ha turistes aquí? No, avui no en tenim. N'arribaran alguns demà "Aren't there tourists here? No, we have any tourists today. Tomorrow will arrive some tourists."

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Last edited by Izambri on Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:04 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:35 am 
Smeric
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Pronominalització del complement directe "Pronominalization of the direct object"

Pronominal forms in function of direct object
Singular:
1st p. em
2nd p. et
3rd p. el, la

Plural:
1st p. ens
2nd p. us
3rd p. els, les

Neuter: en, ho, es

1) The 1st p. and 2nd p. forms always refer to persons.

Et buscaré a la plaça "I'll find you in the market"
Ens avisaran a les set "They'll warn us at seven o'clock"

2) 3rd p. forms:

2.1) The pronouns el, la, els, les substitute a specific and determinated SN, and make reference to the whole. They distinguish between masculine and femenine, and singular and plural.

Has comprat el diari? No, ara el compraré "Have you bought the newspaper?. No, I'll buy it now"
No et deixis les ulleres! No, ja les duc a la bossa "Don't forget the glasses! Don't worry, I took them in the bag.

2.2) The pronoun en substitutes the core of a non-deetrminated SN, or a Sn that is preceded by a numeral, a quantitative or an indefinite. It doesn't cares about the gender.

Qui porta ulleres? Aquell xicot en porta. "Who wears glasses? That boy wears glasses"
Tens còmics antics? Oh, i tant, en tinc molts! "Do you have old comics? Oh yes, I have lots of comics!"

2.3) The form ho has as antecedent a neuter demonstrative pronoun or a proposition. Also, it can refer to an accumulation of elements that express an idea.

Veus això? No, no ho puc veure pas. "Do you see that? No, I can't see it"
Què en fem de tot això que hi ha a l'armari? Llençar-ho! What we must do with all that in the wardrobe? Throw away it!

2.4) The pronoun es is the reflexive or reciprocal form.

Ell es renta la cara "He washes his face", literally: "He to himself washes the face"


Notes:

1) When a substantive already represented by the pronoun en is used pleonastically, it's necessary to place in front of it the prepositon de.

No en vull més, de macarrons "I don't want more macaroni"; literally "No it want more, of/about macaroni"

2) If a substantive, already substituted by the pronoun en, was complemented by an adjective, this adjective is preceded by the the preposition de.

Teniu vi negre? No, no ens en queda de negre, per? en tenim de blanc "Do youse have red wine? No, we don't have red wine, but we have white", literally: "Do you have red wine? No, we don't wine have of red, but we wine have of white

(The en pronoun substitutes wine)

3) If a reference to a part of the SN isn't made, but it is made to the whole of the SN, the pronouns el, la, els, les are used.

Ahir vam comprar quinze bombons i només en tastàrem un parell; avui, però, ens els hem menjat tots "We bought fifteen chocolates yesterday and we tasted only a pair of all the chocolates; today, though, we ate all the chocolates.

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Last edited by Izambri on Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 6:51 pm 
Smeric
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Concordança del participi amb el pronom en funció de complement directe "Agreement of the participle with the pronoun functioning as a direct object"
If the direct object is a 3rd person weak pronoun (el, la, els, les, en) and precedes a compound verbal form, the participle can agree in gender and number with the complement.

Els llibres, encara no els he endreçats "The books, I haven't arrange them yet", lit. "The books, still no them I have arranged".

Note what we said: that the participle (endreçats) agrees with the direct object (els llibres) in gender (masc) and number (pl).

Et torno la revista perquè ja l'he llegida "I return to you the magazine because I've red it yet", lit. "To you I return the magazine because yet it I have read".

The same here: the participle (llegida) agrees with the direct object (la revista) in gender (fem) and number (sg).

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Last edited by Izambri on Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:57 am 
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2) Мне некогда: Хлевагастиз
3) Exterminate lady-haters, now!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:30 am 
Smeric
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:57 am 
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1) Ayval b?? khii, khiivel b?? ay!
2) Мне некогда: Хлевагастиз
3) Exterminate lady-haters, now!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:08 am 
Smeric
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Pronominalització del complement indirecte "Pronominalization of the indirect object"

Formes pronominals en funció de complement indirecte
"Pronominal forms in function of indirect object"

Singular:
1st p. em
2nd p.et
3rd p. li

Plural:
1st p. ens
2nd p. us
3rd p. els

Reflexive: es


1) The 1st p. and 2nd p. forms always refer to persons:

Em publicaran el llibre de poemes "They'll publish my poems book", lit. "To me they'll publish the book of poems"


2) Forms of 3rd person:

2.1) The li form substitutes a singular, masculine or femenine, nominal syntagma.

He trobat en Joan i li he donat les claus "I've find John and I've give him the keys".

2.2) The pronoun els substitutes a plural, masculine or femenine, nominal syntagma.

Mes germanes volen que els ensenyi les fotografies "My sisters want me to show the photographies to them"

2.3) The pronoun es is the reflexive or reciprocal from.

Quan parla, s'escolta "When (he/she) speaks, he/she listens to himself/herself"
Ells es barallen "They fight at one another/themselves"


Observations:

In contact with the direct object forms (el, la, els, les) isn't used the li pronoun, but hi.

El + li = l'hi, not el li.
La + li = la hi, not la li
Els + li = els hi, not els li
Les + li = les hi, not les li

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Last edited by Izambri on Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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3) Exterminate lady-haters, now!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 5:41 am 
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