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 Post subject: Welsh lessons.
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 12:15 pm 
Sanno
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Also known as "Dewrad comes through on his campaign promises".

I promised free Welsh lessons as part of the Plaid Geltaidd Voom election manifesto, so (unlike RL politicians) I'm starting them here.

Rather than go through the same procedure as before (which, to be honest, petered out due to lack of inspiration), I'm basically going to present a Welsh version of the popular Cornish correspondence course, Kernewek Dre Lyther. I'm actually taking the Cornish version at the moment and finding it to be an efficient method of language learning, so I'll basically translate the Welsh version as I do the Cornish version.

So, welcome to CTL- Cymraeg Trwy Lythyr. Lessons begin here. If you want to follow the course, then I'd ask that you either PM the answers to me directly or put them in really tiny text. If you want guidelines on pronunciation, I suggest you take a look at the KutjaraWiki page that I wrote on it, as I can't be bothered writing it all out here again.

To use the course, read the passage and see if you can make sense of it with the geirfa vocabulary, then answer the comprehension questions after it. This will be followed by some grammar points and a few exercises for you to complete.

Gwers Un

Cymru

Cymru ydy gorynys yng ngorllewin Prydain. Cymru ydy gwlad Geltaidd. Ioan ydy Cymro. Mae o'n byw yng Nghymru. Mae o'n siarad Saesneg. Mae o'n siarad Cymraeg hefyd. Beth ydy mamiaith Ioan? Saesneg ydy mamiaith Ioan. Sut mae Ioan yn dysgu Cymraeg? Ioan ydy aelod Cymdeithas yr Iaith Cymraeg. Mae o'n mynd i ddosbarth i ddysgu Cymraeg. Pam fod o'n dysgu Cymraeg? Achos fod o Cymro!

Geirfa - Vocabulary

Cymru = Wales
gorynys f = peninsula
yng ngorllewin Prydain = in the west of Britain
ydy = is
gwlad f = land, country
Celtaidd = Celtic
Cymro = Welshman
mae o'n ... = he is ...-ing
byw = live, dwell (one can also use trigiannu for this sense)
yng Nghymru = in Wales
siarad = speak
Saesneg = English
Cymraeg = Welsh
hefyd = also, too
beth? = what?
mamiaith f = mother tongue, native language
mamiaith Ioan = Ioan's native language
sut? = how?
dysgu = learn
aelod = member
Cymdeithas yr Iaith Cymraeg = the Welsh Language Society
mynd = go
dosbarth = lesson
pam? = why?
pam fod o'n ...? = why is he ...-ing?
achos = because
achos fod o ... = because he is ...

Feminine nouns are marked with an f.

Cwestiynau - Questions

All the answers can be found in the text, and then just copied down.

1) Beth ydy Cymru?
2) Beth ydy Ioan?
3) Lle (where) mae Ioan yn byw?
4) Beth ydy mamiaith Ioan?
5) Sut mae Ioan yn dysgu Cymraeg?
6) Pam fod Ioan yn dysgu Cymraeg?

Gramadeg - Grammar

Y Treigliadau - Mutations
In Welsh, as in the other modern Celtic languages, in certain circumstances initial consonants mutate, after (most) prepositions, for example, as we have seen above (i ddosbarth to a class). The basic form of the word, which is the form found in dictionaries, is known as the radical. There are three further mutations:
    Y Treigliad Meddal - lenition, also known as soft mutation.
    Y Treigliad Llaes - spirantisation, also known as the aspirate mutation, aspiration or the spirant mutation.
    Y Treigliad Trwynol - nasalisation, also known as the nasal mutation.

For this course I have chosen the linguistic terms rather than the "learner's textbook" terms, principally because they are briefer and have corresponding verbs and adjectives: to lenite, lenited; to spirantise, spirantised; to nasalise, nasalised- "soft mutation" has no corresponding forms (to softly mutate, softly mutated?).

In this lesson only, a full table of all the mutations is provided. A dash on the table indicates that no change takes place, an ? indicates that the consonant is lost.

Code:
Radical    Lenition    Aspiration   Nasalisation
  p           b            ph            mh
  t           d            th            nh
  c           g            ch            ngh
  b           f            -             m
  d           dd           -             n
  g           ?            -             ng
  m           f            -             -
  ll          l            -             -
  rh          r            -             -


Words which trigger (cause) lenition will be marked (not wholly consistently) with a following ?, e.g. i? to; those which trigger aspiration will be marked with a following ? and those triggering nasalisation will be marked with a following ?. Now it sould be clear why certain words in the passage differ from the forms given in the vocabulary: they have been mutated.

The causes of the mutations will be introduced gradually through the course.

Yr Amser Cydrychiol - The Present Tense

We have already seen the following sentence in the above passage: Mae o'n siarad Saesneg He is speaking English.

This construction can be used to express the simple present tense in English, He speaks English as well as the present continuous He is speaking English. This is the most common way of forming the present tense in Welsh. Examine the following sentence:
Mae o'n siarad Cymraeg He is speaking Welsh.

As in English the Welsh continuous form uses a form of the auxiliary verb to be with the present participle. The present participle in English is formed by adding ?ing. In Welsh, however, the verb noun, from which the present participle is formed, keeps its ending but is preceded by the particle yn, which becomes 'n when following a vowel.

So, to break the sentence down into its constituent parts, we have:

Mae - there is, the form of "to be" used in declarative sentences.
o - he, the subject pronoun.
yn - a particle, which alone does not mean anything (c.f. however archaic English I am a-speaking)
siarad - speaking, the berfenw verbnoun. Celtic languages lack an infinitive, so the verbnoun is both the basic form and also the citation form.
Cymraeg - Welsh, the object of the sentence.

So, literally There is he a-speaking Welsh, which is how Welsh expresses the present tense.

To change the statement into a question, simply change mae into ydy: Ydy o'n siarad Cymraeg? Is he speaking Welsh?.

Ymarferiad - Exercise

Using the present tense formation given above, translate the following sentences into Welsh (the appropriate Welsh verb has been given in brackets):

1) Is he reading? (darllen)
2) He is sleeping (cysgu[/u])
3) Ioan is eating ([b]bwyta
)
4) Is Rhodri snoring? (chwyrnu)
5) Deiniol is teaching. (addysgu)
6) Eleri is driving. (gyrru)
7) Is Angharad listening? (gwrando)
8) Is Pharazon masturbating? (godro)
9) Iorwerth is talking crap. (malu cachu)

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Salmoneus wrote:
(NB Dewrad is behaving like an adult - a petty, sarcastic and uncharitable adult, admittedly, but none the less note the infinitely higher quality of flame)


Last edited by Dewrad on Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Welsh lessons.
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 6:03 pm 
Sanci
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Nice :) I'm very out of practice...I'll have a go at the excercise:


1) Is he reading? - Ydy o'n darllen?
2) He is sleeping - Mae o'n cysgu
3) Ioan is eating - Mae Ioan yn bwyta
4) Is Rhodri snoring? - Ydy Rhodri yn chwrnu
5) Deiniol is teaching. - Mae Deiniol yn addysgu
6) Eleri is driving. - Mae Eleri yn gyrru
7) Is Angharad listening? - Ydy Angharad yn gwrando?
8) Is Pharazon masturbating? - Ydy Pharazon yn godro?
9) Iorwerth is talking crap. - Mae Iorwerth yn malu cachu


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 11:57 pm 
Lebom
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Note: there are two forms of where in welsh ble is for questions and lle for other not question forms.

eg O ble dych chi'n dod?

Other than that its cool achos dw i'n dysgu cymraeg achos mae cymraeg yn iaith bendigedig.

Its hard to find welsh speakers on the internet willing to share their linguistic knowledge.

Faint o Siaradwyr Cymraeg sy 'da yn y fforwm 'ma?

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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 5:32 am 
Sanci
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Turtlehead wrote:
Note: there are two forms of where in welsh ble is for questions and lle for other not question forms.

eg O ble dych chi'n dod?



I'm fairly sure that "lle" can be used in questions as well, and that "ble" is just a Southern variant.

Quote:
Faint o Siaradwyr Cymraeg sy 'da yn y fforwm 'ma?


Dw i ddim yn gwybod.......Dewrad, Linguoboy, Twpsyn Pentref, Jonr...I've probably missed somebody. I know a little, but haven't practiced for an age. Dewrad is the only native speaker here as far as I know.


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 Post subject: Cymraeg
PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 5:49 am 
Lebom
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Dylen ni ymarfer ein cymraeg ni gyda'r yn arall.

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I KEIM HEWE IN THE ΠVEΓININΓ TA LEAWN WELX, ΠVVT NAW THE ΠVWΠVΣE FVW ΠVEINΓ HEWE IΣ VNKLEAW. THAT IΣ WAIT I LIKE TA MAKE KAWNLANΓΣ AWN THE ΣΠAWT.
TVWTLEHEAΔ


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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 7:39 am 
Sanno
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Turtlehead wrote:
Note: there are two forms of where in welsh ble is for questions and lle for other not question forms.


Note also that I'm a native speaker :wink: In fact, one can hear three variants of "where"- lle, ble and le- my dialect tends to use lle, which is why it's the form used in the lesson above.

Quote:
Other than that its cool achos dw i'n dysgu cymraeg achos mae cymraeg yn iaith bendigedig.


....achos 'y mod i'n dysgu Cymraeg achos ei bod hi iaith bendigedig.

Quote:
Faint o Siaradwyr Cymraeg sy 'da yn y fforwm 'ma?


Hwyrach bod chwech neu pump. Wn i ddim bod yn onest.

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(NB Dewrad is behaving like an adult - a petty, sarcastic and uncharitable adult, admittedly, but none the less note the infinitely higher quality of flame)


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 Post subject: Re: Welsh lessons.
PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 7:44 am 
Sanno
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S?ren wrote:
Nice :) I'm very out of practice...I'll have a go at the excercise:


1) Is he reading? - Ydy o'n darllen?
2) He is sleeping - Mae o'n cysgu
3) Ioan is eating - Mae Ioan yn bwyta
4) Is Rhodri snoring? - Ydy Rhodri yn chwrnu
5) Deiniol is teaching. - Mae Deiniol yn addysgu
6) Eleri is driving. - Mae Eleri yn gyrru
7) Is Angharad listening? - Ydy Angharad yn gwrando?
8) Is Pharazon masturbating? - Ydy Pharazon yn godro?
9) Iorwerth is talking crap. - Mae Iorwerth yn malu cachu


All correct!

just remember that yn becomes 'n after a vowel, so it would be mae Eleri'n gyrru etc.

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Salmoneus wrote:
(NB Dewrad is behaving like an adult - a petty, sarcastic and uncharitable adult, admittedly, but none the less note the infinitely higher quality of flame)


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 Post subject: Re: Welsh lessons.
PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 8:24 am 
Lebom
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Great! Welsh Lessons!
I think this method, showing a text and vocabulary, is way better. I'm even going to steal it :wink:.
I'll be following this thread closely.

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 Post subject: Cymraeg
PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 10:07 pm 
Lebom
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Mae eisiau ymarfer arna i 'da fy nghymraeg fi.

Lle is also the word for place.

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I KEIM HEWE IN THE ΠVEΓININΓ TA LEAWN WELX, ΠVVT NAW THE ΠVWΠVΣE FVW ΠVEINΓ HEWE IΣ VNKLEAW. THAT IΣ WAIT I LIKE TA MAKE KAWNLANΓΣ AWN THE ΣΠAWT.
TVWTLEHEAΔ


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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 12:03 pm 
Lebom
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This is the first time I take a closer look at Welsh..

I translated the text:
Wales is a peninsula in the west of Britain. Wales is a celtic country. Ioan is a Welshman. He is living in Wales. He is speaking English. He is speaking Welsh too. What is Ioan?s mother tongue? English is Ioan?s mother tongue. How did Ioan learn Welsh? Ioan is a member of the Welsh Language Society. He is going to a class to learn Welsh. Why is he learning Welsh? Because he is a Welshman!

Then I did the questions:
1) Beth ydy Cymru?
- Gorynys yng ngorllewin Prydain.
2) Beth ydy Ioan?
- Cymro.
3) Lle (where) mae Ioan yn byw?
- Yng Nghymru.
4) Beth ydy mamiaith Ioan?
- Saesneg.
5) Sut mae Ioan yn dysgu Cymraeg?
- Mae o'n dw?d i ddosbarth i ddysgu Cymraeg. Ioan ydy aelod Cymdeithas yr Iaith Cymraeg hefyd.
6) Pam fod Ioan yn dysgu Cymraeg?
- Achos fod o Cymro.


...and the excersises:
1) Is he reading? (darllen)
- Ydy o?n darllen?
2) He is sleeping (cysgu[/u])
- Mae o?n cysgu
3) Ioan is eating ([b]bwyta)
- Ion ydy bwyta
4) Is Rhodri snoring? (chwyrnu)
- Ydy Rhodri chwyrnu?
5) Deiniol is teaching. (addysgu)
- Deiniol ydy addysgu
6) Eleri is driving. (gyrru)
- Eleri ydy gyrru
7) Is Angharad listening? (gwrando)
- Ydy Angharad gwrando?
8) Is Pharazon masturbating? (godro)
- Ydy Pharazon godro?
9) Iorwerth is talking crap. (malu cachu)
- Iorwerth ydy malu cachu.


Not sure how it went though :?

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protip: no one wants to learn your conlangs. if they claim different, it's just to be friendly. this is true for all conlangers.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 12:17 pm 
Sanno
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skrivihop wrote:
This is the first time I take a closer look at Welsh..

I translated the text:
Wales is a peninsula in the west of Britain. Wales is a celtic country. Ioan is a Welshman. He is living in Wales. He is speaking English. He is speaking Welsh too. What is Ioan?s mother tongue? English is Ioan?s mother tongue. How did Ioan learn Welsh? Ioan is a member of the Welsh Language Society. He is going to a class to learn Welsh. Why is he learning Welsh? Because he is a Welshman!

Then I did the questions:
1) Beth ydy Cymru?
- Gorynys yng ngorllewin Prydain.
2) Beth ydy Ioan?
- Cymro.
3) Lle (where) mae Ioan yn byw?
- Yng Nghymru.
4) Beth ydy mamiaith Ioan?
- Saesneg.
5) Sut mae Ioan yn dysgu Cymraeg?
- Mae o'n dw?d i ddosbarth i ddysgu Cymraeg. Ioan ydy aelod Cymdeithas yr Iaith Cymraeg hefyd.
6) Pam fod Ioan yn dysgu Cymraeg?
- Achos fod o Cymro.


...and the excersises:
1) Is he reading? (darllen)
- Ydy o?n darllen?
2) He is sleeping (cysgu[/u])
- Mae o?n cysgu
3) Ioan is eating ([b]bwyta)
- Ion ydy bwyta
4) Is Rhodri snoring? (chwyrnu)
- Ydy Rhodri chwyrnu?
5) Deiniol is teaching. (addysgu)
- Deiniol ydy addysgu
6) Eleri is driving. (gyrru)
- Eleri ydy gyrru
7) Is Angharad listening? (gwrando)
- Ydy Angharad gwrando?
8) Is Pharazon masturbating? (godro)
- Ydy Pharazon godro?
9) Iorwerth is talking crap. (malu cachu)
- Iorwerth ydy malu cachu.


Not sure how it went though :?


Review the section on the present tense, and try again :wink:

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Salmoneus wrote:
(NB Dewrad is behaving like an adult - a petty, sarcastic and uncharitable adult, admittedly, but none the less note the infinitely higher quality of flame)


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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 12:26 pm 
Lebom
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Dangit...it was the yn/'n that I missed right?
Was the other right or should I try again there as well?

1) Is he reading? (darllen)
- Ydy o?n darllen?
2) He is sleeping (cysgu[/u])
- Mae o?n cysgu
3) Ioan is eating ([b]bwyta)
- Ion ydy?n bwyta
4) Is Rhodri snoring? (chwyrnu)
- Ydy Rhodri?n chwyrnu?
5) Deiniol is teaching. (addysgu)
- Deiniol ydy?n addysgu
6) Eleri is driving. (gyrru)
- Eleri ydy?n gyrru
7) Is Angharad listening? (gwrando)
- Ydy Angharad yn gwrando?
8) Is Pharazon masturbating? (godro)
- Ydy Pharazon yn godro?
9) Iorwerth is talking crap. (malu cachu)
- Iorwerth ydy?n malu cachu.

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Miekko wrote:
protip: no one wants to learn your conlangs. if they claim different, it's just to be friendly. this is true for all conlangers.


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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 1:39 pm 
Sanno
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One uses "mae" with personal names as well. Check the text.

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Salmoneus wrote:
(NB Dewrad is behaving like an adult - a petty, sarcastic and uncharitable adult, admittedly, but none the less note the infinitely higher quality of flame)


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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 1:40 pm 
Lebom
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Bah...then it didn't went good at all, failure on the second attempt with all facts on the table....

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Miekko wrote:
protip: no one wants to learn your conlangs. if they claim different, it's just to be friendly. this is true for all conlangers.


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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 3:47 am 
Lebom
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When is the next lesson coming?

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I KEIM HEWE IN THE ΠVEΓININΓ TA LEAWN WELX, ΠVVT NAW THE ΠVWΠVΣE FVW ΠVEINΓ HEWE IΣ VNKLEAW. THAT IΣ WAIT I LIKE TA MAKE KAWNLANΓΣ AWN THE ΣΠAWT.
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 6:41 am 
Sanno
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Turtlehead wrote:
When is the next lesson coming?
When I pull my finger out and write it. :wink: The weekend maybe.

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Salmoneus wrote:
(NB Dewrad is behaving like an adult - a petty, sarcastic and uncharitable adult, admittedly, but none the less note the infinitely higher quality of flame)


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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 4:51 am 
Lebom
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Diolch yn fawr iawn

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I KEIM HEWE IN THE ΠVEΓININΓ TA LEAWN WELX, ΠVVT NAW THE ΠVWΠVΣE FVW ΠVEINΓ HEWE IΣ VNKLEAW. THAT IΣ WAIT I LIKE TA MAKE KAWNLANΓΣ AWN THE ΣΠAWT.
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 Post subject: Re: Welsh lessons.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:08 am 
Lebom
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Dewrad wrote:
Also known as "Dewrad comes through on his campaign promises".

I considered the promise still unfulfilled. :)

Seriously, will the thread go on?

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 Post subject: Re: Welsh lessons.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:21 am 
Lebom
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alieneye wrote:
Dewrad wrote:
Also known as "Dewrad comes through on his campaign promises".

I considered the promise still unfulfilled. :)

Seriously, will the thread go on?


When he has time.

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 Post subject: Re: Welsh lessons.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:05 pm 
Lebom
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Delthayre wrote:
alieneye wrote:
Dewrad wrote:
Also known as "Dewrad comes through on his campaign promises".

I considered the promise still unfulfilled. :)

Seriously, will the thread go on?


When he has time.

I didn't ask when, I'm not in a hurry. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:26 pm 
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Ydy o'n darllen?
Mae o'n cysgu.
Mae Ioan yn bwyta.
Ydy Rhodri yn chwyrnu?
Mae Deiniol yn addysgu.
Mae Eleri yn gyrru.
Ydy Angharad yn gwrando?
Ydy Pharazon yn godro?
Mae Iorwerth yn malu cachu.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:56 am 
Lebom
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Turtlehead wrote:
When is the next lesson coming?


Well?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 6:52 am 
Sanci
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1) Ydy o?n darllen?
2) Mae o?n cysgu.
3) Mae Ioan yn bwyta.
4) Ydy Rhodri ?n chwyrnu?
5) Mae Deiniol yn addysgu.
6) Mae Eleri ?n gyrru.
7) Ydy Angharad yn gwrando?
8) Ydy Pharazon yn godro?
9) Mae Iorwerth yn malu cachu.


Correct me, please, if I'm wrong.

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2) Мне некогда: Хлевагастиз
3) Exterminate lady-haters, now!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:31 am 
Sanno
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Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 9:00 am
Posts: 3687
Location: Rogers Park/Evanston
Turtlehead wrote:
Well?

I'm sure if anyone would like to send donations to compensate Dewrad for the time away from renumerative activity that he spends on crafting these lessons, he'd be more than happy to accept them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:17 pm 
Lebom
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Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:43 am
Posts: 139
Location: í Svéalandi
Or you could go to Unilang's Welsh forum while you're waiting, there's a bunch of good lessons there actually.

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Miekko wrote:
protip: no one wants to learn your conlangs. if they claim different, it's just to be friendly. this is true for all conlangers.


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