Welsh lessons.

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linguoboy
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Post by linguoboy »

Turtlehead wrote:Beth am hwn? Cymdeithas golchwr llestri simach piws(neu gochlas).

Mae dim ond yr unig olchwr yn y gymdeithas, ydy?

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Post by Turtlehead »

linguoboy wrote:
Turtlehead wrote:Beth am hwn? Cymdeithas golchwr llestri simach piws(neu gochlas).

Mae dim ond yr unig olchwr yn y gymdeithas, ydy?


Felly ydy o Cymdeithas olchwr llestri simach piws. Beth ydy'r lliw gorau i ddefnyddio?
I KEIM HEWE IN THE ΠVEΓININΓ TA LEAWN WELX, ΠVVT NAW THE ΠVWΠVΣE FVW ΠVEINΓ HEWE IΣ VNKLEAW. THAT IΣ WAIT I LIKE TA MAKE KAWNLANΓΣ AWN THE ΣΠAWT.
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Post by linguoboy »

Turtlehead wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
Turtlehead wrote:Beth am hwn? Cymdeithas golchwr llestri simach piws(neu gochlas).

Mae dim ond yr unig olchwr yn y gymdeithas, ydy?

Felly ydy o Cymdeithas olchwr llestri simach piws.

Nag ydy.

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Post by Turtlehead »

Holiad newydd:

Rydw i'n darllen llyfr am ieithyddiaeth Gymraeg a rydw i'n ei hoffi o, mae o'n da. Ydych chi'n gwybod llawer am ieithyddiaeth Gymraeg?
I KEIM HEWE IN THE ΠVEΓININΓ TA LEAWN WELX, ΠVVT NAW THE ΠVWΠVΣE FVW ΠVEINΓ HEWE IΣ VNKLEAW. THAT IΣ WAIT I LIKE TA MAKE KAWNLANΓΣ AWN THE ΣΠAWT.
TVWTLEHEAΔ

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Post by marconatrix »

Turtlehead wrote:Holiad newydd:

Rydw i'n darllen llyfr am ieithyddiaeth Gymraeg a rydw i'n ei hoffi o, mae o'n da. Ydych chi'n gwybod llawer am ieithyddiaeth Gymraeg?


Ydw, wel tipyn 'fallai.

Ble mae'r athro wedi mynd? Ydi pawb yma yn medru Cymraeg eisoes? Sorri, newydd wedi cyrraedd 'fan 'ma dwi.

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Post by Dewrad »

marconatrix wrote:
Turtlehead wrote:Holiad newydd:

Rydw i'n darllen llyfr am ieithyddiaeth Gymraeg a rydw i'n ei hoffi o, mae o'n da. Ydych chi'n gwybod llawer am ieithyddiaeth Gymraeg?


Ydw, wel tipyn 'fallai.

Ble mae'r athro wedi mynd? Ydi pawb yma yn medru Cymraeg eisoes? Sorri, newydd wedi cyrraedd 'fan 'ma dwi.

Marconatrix


Keith? Omma yw te, sos? Dynargh dhe'n ZBB! Yth esen vy owth ankevy bos les dhys adro an yethow gwrys.
Some useful Dravian links: Grammar - Lexicon - Ask a Dravian
Salmoneus wrote:(NB Dewrad is behaving like an adult - a petty, sarcastic and uncharitable adult, admittedly, but none the less note the infinitely higher quality of flame)

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Post by marconatrix »

Dewrad wrote:Keith? Omma yw te, sos? Dynargh dhe'n ZBB! Yth esen vy owth ankevy bos les dhys adro an yethow gwrys.


Dyowl! Hwythyz yw ow gorher yn tevri! :?

Dre happ my re gavas an bord-ma. Rez yw dhymm gorre ow folennow a-dro dhe Saprutum arte y'n kezroezweyth, dell hevel ...

Mez pyw y'n byz-ma a'm azwonn omma?? Pyw yw a-dryv an les-hanow _Dewrad_??

(Don't panic folks, this is NOT Welsh)

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I once spotted the Gaelic that robbed me in a line up

Post by Delthayre »

marconatrix wrote:
Dewrad wrote:Keith? Omma yw te, sos? Dynargh dhe'n ZBB! Yth esen vy owth ankevy bos les dhys adro an yethow gwrys.


Dyowl! Hwythyz yw ow gorher yn tevri! :?

Dre happ my re gavas an bord-ma. Rez yw dhymm gorre ow folennow a-dro dhe Saprutum arte y'n kezroezweyth, dell hevel ...

Mez pyw y'n byz-ma a'm azwonn omma?? Pyw yw a-dryv an les-hanow _Dewrad_??

(Don't panic folks, this is NOT Welsh)

Marconatrix (aka Mongvras)


Unless I'm off. I think that's Cornish. I don't speak it, but I can usually pick it out in a crowd.

Kemmyn or Unys (or Unys Amendys)?
"Great men are almost always bad men."
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Re: I once spotted the Gaelic that robbed me in a line up

Post by marconatrix »

marconatrix wrote:
Dewrad wrote:Keith? Omma yw te, sos? Dynargh dhe'n ZBB! Yth esen vy owth ankevy bos les dhys adro an yethow gwrys.


Dyowl! Hwythyz yw ow gorher yn tevri! :?

Dre happ my re gavas an bord-ma. Rez yw dhymm gorre ow folennow a-dro dhe Saprutum arte y'n kezroezweyth, dell hevel ...

Mez pyw y'n byz-ma a'm azwonn omma?? Pyw yw a-dryv an les-hanow _Dewrad_??

(Don't panic folks, this is NOT Welsh)

Marconatrix (aka Mongvras)


Unless I'm off. I think that's Cornish. I don't speak it, but I can usually pick it out in a crowd.

Kemmyn or Unys (or Unys Amendys)?


Dewrad seems to be using UCR, the poor misguided soul. I'm using my own experimental version of KK, which is basically Kemmyn with <z>'s, oh and final <-e>'s where KK levels them with <-a>'s. This is because I'm working on the earlier texts where the -e/-a thing affects the rhymes. Absolute final unstressed /-E/ >> /-a/ around the end of the 15th century fwiw.

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Re: I once spotted the Gaelic that robbed me in a line up

Post by Dewrad »

Mez pyw y'n byz-ma a'm azwonn omma?? Pyw yw a-dryv an les-hanow _Dewrad_??
Me a wrug an yeth arvorec. Te a wra ow aswon vy lemmyn? Dan Jones yw ow hanow.

Dewrad seems to be using UCR, the poor misguided soul. I'm using my own experimental version of KK, which is basically Kemmyn with <z>'s
What happens when Proto-Germanic and Cornish have an affair? :wink:
Some useful Dravian links: Grammar - Lexicon - Ask a Dravian
Salmoneus wrote:(NB Dewrad is behaving like an adult - a petty, sarcastic and uncharitable adult, admittedly, but none the less note the infinitely higher quality of flame)

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Re: I once spotted the Gaelic that robbed me in a line up

Post by marconatrix »

Dewrad wrote:
Mez pyw y'n byz-ma a'm azwonn omma?? Pyw yw a-dryv an les-hanow _Dewrad_??
Me a wrug an yeth arvorec. Te a wra ow aswon vy lemmyn? Dan Jones yw ow hanow.


Thanks. I had ISP trouble some time ago and lots of stuff went down the tubes. I'm back on Celticonlang but it's very quiet these days. I've not got back onto the Conlang list, but it looks more fun here anyway, cool site 8) I've just put up my Saprutum pages again, I'll anounce them elsewhere on this site once I figure out the proper place, but for now :
http://www.saprutum.cymru247.net

Dewrad wrote:
Dewrad seems to be using UCR, the poor misguided soul. I'm using my own experimental version of KK, which is basically Kemmyn with <z>'s
What happens when Proto-Germanic and Cornish have an affair? :wink:


Oh No! I'm definitely not getting into all of that here. If you want that go to :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cornishorthography/
you can see all the intellectual (??) arm-wrestling I've been doing, often with another Dan, who I got confused with yourself. :?

Oh for the innocent joys of conlanging :wink:

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Re: I once spotted the Gaelic that robbed me in a line up

Post by Dewrad »

marconatrix wrote:
Dewrad wrote:
Mez pyw y'n byz-ma a'm azwonn omma?? Pyw yw a-dryv an les-hanow _Dewrad_??
Me a wrug an yeth arvorec. Te a wra ow aswon vy lemmyn? Dan Jones yw ow hanow.


Thanks. I had ISP trouble some time ago and lots of stuff went down the tubes. I'm back on Celticonlang but it's very quiet these days. I've not got back onto the Conlang list, but it looks more fun here anyway, cool site 8) I've just put up my Saprutum pages again, I'll anounce them elsewhere on this site once I figure out the proper place, but for now :
http://www.saprutum.cymru247.net


Hurrah! I always liked Saprutum. It's good to have you here. You'll most likely recognise a fair few faces from the old days of Celticonlang- Aidan Gray for one.


Oh No! I'm definitely not getting into all of that here. If you want that go to :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cornishorthography/
Ah, the continual rancour of the Cornish orthography debate! In my opinion we should just give it all up as a bad job and represent the language using Hanzi or similar. :wink: I'm actually a lurker on the yahoogroup- the viciousness entertains me.
Some useful Dravian links: Grammar - Lexicon - Ask a Dravian
Salmoneus wrote:(NB Dewrad is behaving like an adult - a petty, sarcastic and uncharitable adult, admittedly, but none the less note the infinitely higher quality of flame)

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Post by Turtlehead »

Isn't Cornish the bastard child of Brythoneg and Germanic languages?

Did Cornish used to be spoken in Devon?

I have a Cornish for beginners book and tape.
I KEIM HEWE IN THE ΠVEΓININΓ TA LEAWN WELX, ΠVVT NAW THE ΠVWΠVΣE FVW ΠVEINΓ HEWE IΣ VNKLEAW. THAT IΣ WAIT I LIKE TA MAKE KAWNLANΓΣ AWN THE ΣΠAWT.
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Post by Delthayre »

Turtlehead wrote:Isn't Cornish the bastard child of Brythoneg and Germanic languages?

Did Cornish used to be spoken in Devon?

I have a Cornish for beginners book and tape.


Well, it certainly wasn't born out of wedlock and though there may have been speakers of Cornish or some other Southwestern British language in Devon the traditional boundary of the Cornish-speaking areä was the River Tamar.

Cornish, like Welsh, was pushed back by the Germanic invaders in to the southwestern penninsula of England and over time diverged from Southwestern British into a distinct language vaguely around the seventh century. It maintained a substantial degree of mutual intelligibility with Breton into the middle ages.

I'm taking that principally from memory (generally somewhat faulty) and the section of Routledge's The Celtic Languages about Cornish (written by Ken George).
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Post by marconatrix »

Turtlehead wrote:Isn't Cornish the bastard child of Brythoneg and Germanic languages?


Is this a serious question? There were a reasonable number of loans from Middle English, but many were ultimately Norman French words. Probably much less than the number of French loan words in Breton. The phonology got an extra row of consonants /tS, S, dZ/ with a hole where /*Z/ ought to be (probably filled by an allophone of /z/ << /d/), but the grammar looks pretty normal, kinda half way between Middle Welsh and Middle Breton. If you want a Celtic lang. crossed with Germanic look at Manx, or Scots Gaelic in Skye and Lewis, Gaelic as spoken by Norsemen, vocab, grammar, phonology, the lot!

Turtlehead wrote:Did Cornish used to be spoken in Devon?


Well it all depends how broadly you interpret "Cornish". The British kingdom in the SW was called Dumnonia, which gives Welsh "Dyfnaint" and Cornish "Dewnens" (probably), and of course English "Devon". Dumnonia covered Cornwall, Devon, and at least parts of Somerset and Dorset. As the Saxon hords approached large numbers of Britons abandoned Devon for Brittany. Must have been quite a movement, because it permanantly changed the language of Amorica from romance to British. (This seemed a bit improbably to me, then a few years ago the Serbs practically empted Kosava, and it must have been a bit like that -- only they never came back). Given that Old Cornish and Old Breton were still practically the same language, the language they descended from, whatever you call it, was spoken in what's now Devon. But the special features that make Cornish different from Breton hadn't developed then. Recently some patriotic types in Devon have decided they want to be Celts too and have cobbled together a sort of esperanto of MC and MB, called among other things "West Country Bythonic" (Google for it). Caused a BIG row on Wikipedia where it was solemly declared to be a conlang, and a pretty poor one at that.

Turtlehead wrote:I have a Cornish for beginners book and tape.


The pronunciation will probably be really awful :(
A tradition developed years ago before the phonology had been properly reconstructed and it's really hard to change, since most of the really fluent speakers/teachers learned this ad hoc system and pass it on to their pupils without thinking.

Dan, I never intended to highjack your Welsh thread, honest I didn't :oops:

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Post by Dewrad »

marconatrix wrote:Recently some patriotic types in Devon have decided they want to be Celts too and have cobbled together a sort of esperanto of MC and MB, called among other things "West Country Bythonic" (Google for it). Caused a BIG row on Wikipedia where it was solemly declared to be a conlang, and a pretty poor one at that.
Urgh! That! I could do better than that. No, wait, I have done better than that.

Dan, I never intended to highjack your Welsh thread, honest I didn't :oops:
Heh, let's just say that anything Brythonic goes. I've not posted any lessons for ages, and the thread's more for questions-and-answers anyway. More Brythonicness is good.
Some useful Dravian links: Grammar - Lexicon - Ask a Dravian
Salmoneus wrote:(NB Dewrad is behaving like an adult - a petty, sarcastic and uncharitable adult, admittedly, but none the less note the infinitely higher quality of flame)

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Post by Turtlehead »

Marconatrix, Elli di siarad Cymraeg?
I KEIM HEWE IN THE ΠVEΓININΓ TA LEAWN WELX, ΠVVT NAW THE ΠVWΠVΣE FVW ΠVEINΓ HEWE IΣ VNKLEAW. THAT IΣ WAIT I LIKE TA MAKE KAWNLANΓΣ AWN THE ΣΠAWT.
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Post by marconatrix »

Turtlehead wrote:Marconatrix, Elli di siarad Cymraeg?


Nag 'dw, mae'r bloody Welsh wrthi'n siarad Saesneg bob amser :?

If we're all going to talk Welsh perhaps we should go over to :
http://www.maes-e.com/
Go to the "Ieithoedd Eraill" forum and bump a thread or two :wink: (Mongvras :evil: ydwyf 'fan 'na)

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Post by Turtlehead »

marconatrix wrote:
Turtlehead wrote:Marconatrix, Elli di siarad Cymraeg?


Nag 'dw, mae'r bloody Welsh wrthi'n siarad Saesneg bob amser :?

If we're all going to talk Welsh perhaps we should go over to :
http://www.maes-e.com/
Go to the "Ieithoedd Eraill" forum and bump a thread or two :wink: (Mongvras :evil: ydwyf 'fan 'na)

Marconatrix


Felly, Gelli di ysgrifennu a darllen yr iaith ond nid ei siarad hi. Rydw i'n aelod o'r fforwm 'na. Ydy dy enw ar faes-e Mongvras? Mae fy enw'n Pencrwban ar faes-e. Rydw i'n hoffi yr hafan 'na, mae o'n hafan da iawn.
I KEIM HEWE IN THE ΠVEΓININΓ TA LEAWN WELX, ΠVVT NAW THE ΠVWΠVΣE FVW ΠVEINΓ HEWE IΣ VNKLEAW. THAT IΣ WAIT I LIKE TA MAKE KAWNLANΓΣ AWN THE ΣΠAWT.
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Post by Turtlehead »

8) 8) 8) 8) Mae Geiriadur Cymraeg 'da fi. Prynodd fy nhad fo yn Loegr pan buodd fo'n yna yn ebrill. Rydw i newydd ei gael o'r wythnos ddiwethaf achos bues i'm Palmerston North ym Brifysgol. Rydw i'n hapus iawn. Mae o'n 'Collins Welsh Dictionary Express Edition'. Mae ei ISBN o'n 0-00-722395-1. 8) 8) 8) 8)
I KEIM HEWE IN THE ΠVEΓININΓ TA LEAWN WELX, ΠVVT NAW THE ΠVWΠVΣE FVW ΠVEINΓ HEWE IΣ VNKLEAW. THAT IΣ WAIT I LIKE TA MAKE KAWNLANΓΣ AWN THE ΣΠAWT.
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Post by marconatrix »

Turtlehead wrote:8) 8) 8) 8) Mae Geiriadur Cymraeg 'da fi. Prynodd fy nhad fo yn Loegr pan buodd fo'n yna yn ebrill. Rydw i newydd ei gael o'r wythnos ddiwethaf achos bues i'm Palmerston North ym Brifysgol. Rydw i'n hapus iawn. Mae o'n 'Collins Welsh Dictionary Express Edition'. Mae ei ISBN o'n 0-00-722395-1. 8) 8) 8) 8)


Sut 'dych chi wedi dysgu Cymraeg 'fan na? (Rhaid i mi gofyn)

Beth oes gennoch chi o ran llyfrau ac eraill?

btw Mae'n bosib fy mod i'n medru siarad yr iaith, o leia, wedi bod yng Nghymru am spel ac wrthi'n clywed pobol cael defnydd ohoni hi. Ond ar hyn o bryd mae tueddi mawr gen i am troi i'r Gernyweg yng nghanol bob eii brawddeg :?
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Post by Turtlehead »

marconatrix wrote:Sut 'dych chi wedi dysgu Cymraeg 'fan na? (Rhaid i mi gofyn)

Beth oes gennoch chi o ran llyfrau ac eraill?


Rydw i wedi dysgu Cymraeg ers llyfr ac ar y we. Mae maes-e.com yn cymorth mawr a Dewrad :D yn ei hunan fwrdd arbennig. Bues i'n wir angen i ddysgu Cymraeg felly bues i ac yma rydw i'n siarad i di yng Nghymraeg. Ond mae Dewrad dim yn ddichon cytuno :cry: . Fel mae Cymraeg yn ei famiaith o.
I KEIM HEWE IN THE ΠVEΓININΓ TA LEAWN WELX, ΠVVT NAW THE ΠVWΠVΣE FVW ΠVEINΓ HEWE IΣ VNKLEAW. THAT IΣ WAIT I LIKE TA MAKE KAWNLANΓΣ AWN THE ΣΠAWT.
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Re: Welsh lessons.

Post by schwhatever »

1) Beth ydy Cymru?
Mae Cymru gorynys yng ngorllewin Prydain.
2) Beth ydy Ioan?
Mae o Cymro.
3) Lle (where) mae Ioan yn byw?
Mae o'n bym yn Cymraeg. (Shouldn't the question use the interrogative ydy...? Or does that not happen for non-yes/no questions?)
4) Beth ydy mamiaith Ioan?
Mae Saesneg mamiaith Ioan.
5) Sut mae Ioan yn dysgu Cymraeg?
Mae o'n mynd i ddosbarth i ddysgu Cymraeg.
6) Pam fod Ioan yn dysgu Cymraeg?
Achos fod o Cymro.

1) Is he reading? (darllen)
Ydy o'n darllen?
2) He is sleeping (cysgu[/u])
Mae o'n cysgu.
3) Ioan is eating (bwyta)
Mae Ioan yn bwyta.
4) Is Rhodri snoring? (chwyrnu)
Ydy Rhodri'n chwyrnu?
5) Deiniol is teaching. (addysgu)
Mae Deiniol yn addysgu.
6) Eleri is driving. (gyrru)
Mae Eleri'n gyrru.
7) Is Angharad listening? (gwrando)
Ydy Angharad yn gwrando?
8) Is Pharazon masturbating? (godro)
Ydy Pharazon yn godro?
9) Iorwerth is talking crap. (malu cachu)[/quote]
Mae Iorwerth yn malu cachu.


This site gives "e" for he? Is it dialectical or something?

I'm starting this so I can catch up with the speakers on the Studylangs forum. :D
[quote="Jar Jar Binks"]Now, by making just a few small changes, we prettify the orthography for happier socialist tomorrow![/quote][quote="Xonen"]^ WHS. Except for the log thing and the Andean panpipers.[/quote]

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Re: Welsh lessons.

Post by Dewrad »

Yes. In the south the pronoun is fe/e, but in the north it's fo/o. In the current "standard", either can be used, but in more literary Welsh the correct pronoun is fe.
Some useful Dravian links: Grammar - Lexicon - Ask a Dravian
Salmoneus wrote:(NB Dewrad is behaving like an adult - a petty, sarcastic and uncharitable adult, admittedly, but none the less note the infinitely higher quality of flame)

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Post by schwhatever »

Brittany is also a Celtic area. It is part of hexagonal France. France rules over it. Yann is (a) Breton. He speaks Breton. He also speaks French. His family is Breton. However he doesn't speak Breton except to/with his female friend (*coff* :D ). He is learning Welsh through letter(s). He is writing (a) letter to Ioan in Wales. Ioan is his penpal and friend.

1) Beth ydy Llydaw? Mae'n hi gwlad Geltaidd. Rhan y Ffrainc ydy hi.
2) Beth ydy Yann? Mae o Llydawiad.
3) Beth ydy ei famiaith? Maen nhw Llydawiad hefyd.
4) Pryd (when) mae o'n siarad Llydaweg (note that here "mae" is used, not "ydy") Mae'n o siarad Llydaweg gan ei gyfeillion.
5) Beth mae Yann yn dysgu? Mae'n o dysgu Cymraeg.
6) Beth mae Yann yn ysgrifennu? Mae'n o ysgrifennu lythr at Ioan.
7) Pwy ydy ei ohebydd? Mae Ioan ei ohebydd.

QUESTION: Why did you use "pwy" on the last one?
1) a happy friend
cyfaill hapus / cyfeillion (h?)apus
2) a stupid man
dyn stupid
3) a tall Welshman
cymru tal
4) a small Breton
llydawiad bychan
5) an ugly boy
mab hagr
6) a fat horse
ceffyl tew (dew?)

1) rhan mhawr a large part
2) mam chariadus a loving mother
3) geneth theg a pretty girl
4) tafarn bychan a small pub
5) buwch thew a fat cow
6) dafad gwlanog a wooly sheep
[quote="Jar Jar Binks"]Now, by making just a few small changes, we prettify the orthography for happier socialist tomorrow![/quote][quote="Xonen"]^ WHS. Except for the log thing and the Andean panpipers.[/quote]

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