Irish Lessons - Ranganna Gaeilge

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aardwolf
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Post by aardwolf »

linguoboy wrote:
aardwolf wrote:And I'll do one of "duine" vs "daoine" too.

Isn't the difference simply vowel length, i.e. /i/ vs. /i:/? (I mean, unless you're some crazy Ulsterman...)

Yes, but I meant to say that I'd do one with a contrast of accents.

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Post by Egein »

Is it? Good! Although I kind of pronounce aoi [yi].

And you know, don't be afraid of correcting what I try to say in Irish :oops:

Takk.
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Post by aardwolf »

Egein wrote:Is it? Good! Although I kind of pronounce aoi [yi].

Tip: to gain proper pronunciation don't pronounce <aoi> as [ji] (or did you really mean [yi]?). Just use [i:]


And you know, don't be afraid of correcting what I try to say in Irish :oops:

"Go deimhin a chuideodh s?! "
There was nothing wrong with this, although it sounds kind of formal. More natural would be something like "Cabhr?dh s? cinnte!". (I use "cabhraigh", but other dialects use "cuidigh"; neither is more correct.)

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Post by Egein »

Cool!
Hey I have a question. I tried translating a phrase, and then i came across a few problems.

English: Jesus was my copilot, but we crashed in the Andes and I had to eat him.

And I wrote:

Irish: B'?osa mo choph?ol?ta ach bhuaileamar in ?adan Andessl?ibhte agus bh? orm ? a ithe

1. I didn't know the word for copilote. So I remembered, usually, compound words lenate the following word.
2. Now I didn't knwo which word to use for crash in relation to a plane. I saw the verb tuairte?il, but I couldn't conjugate it right so I used a simpler verb, or so I thought.
3.The preposition in ?adan was unknown to me. I know you say "in burbh n-?adan" to say against you. But I don't undersatnd. It seems to me like it uses genitive with nouns (in ?adan bhfir?). I don't understand either why the -i changes to -in here.
4. I don't know the name of The Andes, so I thought I'd use the word Andes and then add sleibhe (or sliabh?) So I wrote Andessl?ibhte, hoping it would be genitive plural.

And that's it. I would apreciate some inlightenment!
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Post by aardwolf »

Egein wrote:English: Jesus was my copilot, but we crashed in the Andes and I had to eat him.

Irish: B'?osa mo choph?ol?ta ach bhuaileamar in ?adan Andessl?ibhte agus bh? orm ? a ithe

That is seriously cool. Not the bit about eating Jesus, just that you could translate something so obscure!

1. I didn't know the word for copilote. So I remembered, usually, compound words lenate the following word.

I don't know what it is either! Comh-ph?ol?ta works well.

2. Now I didn't knwo which word to use for crash in relation to a plane. I saw the verb tuairte?il, but I couldn't conjugate it right so I used a simpler verb, or so I thought.

"tuairte?il"? Never heard it! "Buail isteach sa sliabh" is fine, I think.

3.The preposition in ?adan was unknown to me. I know you say "in burbh n-?adan" to say against you. But I don't undersatnd. It seems to me like it uses genitive with nouns (in ?adan bhfir?). I don't understand either why the -i changes to -in here.

"In ?adan" is a compound-preposition; these always always make the following noun take the genetive case.

4. I don't know the name of The Andes, so I thought I'd use the word Andes and then add sleibhe (or sliabh?) So I wrote Andessl?ibhte, hoping it would be genitive plural.

I'm pretty sure the "the Andes" are some sort of horrible corruption like "na hAind?is". Ugh. So, "Sl?ibhte na n-Aind?is".



Oh, one other thing. When you say "Jesus was my co-pilot", you must say "B'? ?osa mo chomh-ph?ol?ta". Same as if you say "The man is a teacher" - "Is m?inteoir ? an fear". Confusing, to say the least.

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Post by Egein »

Damn! I knew it! I just forgot since it took me so long to write the phrase! The copula always takes ?/?! Sometimes even twice!

So as a whole it should be?

B'? ?osa mo chomh-ph?ol?ta ach bhuaileamar isteach sna Sl?ibhte na n-Aind?is agus bh? orm ? a ithe
?
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Post by aardwolf »

Egein wrote:Damn! I knew it! I just forgot since it took me so long to write the phrase! The copula always takes ?/?! Sometimes even twice!

So as a whole it should be?

B'? ?osa mo chomh-ph?ol?ta ach bhuaileamar isteach sna Sl?ibhte na n-Aind?is agus bh? orm ? a ithe
?

sna = i + na
when a noun is followed by a genetive, it cannot have an article, so id't just be "isteach i Sl?ibhte na n-Aind?is".

Oh, and well done on the "bh? orm ? a ithe"! Many people forget that moods like this make the verb go to the end; you'd be surprised how many people would say "*bh? orm ithe ?". ::shuddders::

T? ag teacht go bre? leat!

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Post by Egein »

Go raibh maith agat, a hAarworlf!

I didn't know that you couldn't use an article with a noun followed by a genitive.
So you would say

?ll na fhir - The man's apple?

Unless. Is na fhir the plural, and na fir genitive?

:oops:

Thanks alot though!

I'll try to write something new in irish soon go leor!
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Post by Egein »

And while I'm at it.
Is this right?
English: Laughter is proper to man/is unique to man/is particular to.
Irish: T? g?ire d?lis don fhear.
Is beacht better than d?lis?
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Post by aardwolf »

Egein wrote:?ll na fhir - The man's apple?

fear
Sg Nom: an fear
Pl Nom: na fir
Sg Gen: an fhir
Pl Gen: na bhfear

This is one of the irregular (or 5th declension) nouns.

And while I'm at it.
Is this right?
English: Laughter is proper to man/is unique to man/is particular to.
Irish: T? g?ire d?lis don fhear.
Is beacht better than d?lis?

Hmm. That's really hard to translate directly; if you were to do it properly, you'd have to change the whole sentence around, and use different wording.

BTW: d?lis means "loyal", and beacht means "concise".

Aaaaand: Duine VS daoine. Not that this is more of a country accent than what I usually have; I figured it'd be more helpful if you ever listen to Irish radio through the net or something.

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Post by Egein »

Oh! I was pronouncing duine with perhaps a too long i.

Ok well thanks!
It's so fun learning Irish!
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Post by Egein »

Uell!
Faic ?r an tseachtain seo!
T? an scoil nua go hiontach go f?ill!
B?onn a l?n spraoi agam a bheith le mo chairde ann.
Ach t? m?r?n oibre bhaile agam a dh?anamh. T? n?os m? oibre ann n? ag an scoil ?ile. Ach is mar sin f?in ? an scoil seo francach, d? bhr? sin t? s? n?os fusa ann, i bhFraincis, i mo dteanga dh?chais n? ag mo sh?anscoil a bh? i dteanga na namhad, i
mB?arla!

Ach b?m in ?sle br? beag?n go d?ireanach mar b?onn fonn ?irithe as na h?oslainn agam. T? s? mar a bheinn go dona aici. Ach t? a fhios agam nach bhfuil.



That's enough! Had a struggle with comparative adjectives. Had never looked into them :oops: . Yet another complicated system of things and n? and is and m? and l?.
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Post by Egein »

I thought I'd record myself.
But I think I can't pronounce scoil.
I say it in like three different ways.
Oh and I also say franach instead of francach...:oops:

Anyways! It's fun because it's literally the first time (or second?) that I speak Irish. I mean, speak speak.

So have fun. It's really nothing though...probably awful!
:oops:

Oh...I can't upload it. Later maybe .

*fiew*
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Post by aardwolf »

Scoil is [skUL].
And it'd be really good if you made a recording!

Ach t? m?r?n oibre bhaile agam a dh?anamh.

In this case, you'd say le d?anamh, because you have homework "for" doing, if that makes sense. Similar sentences would be:
An bhfuil rud agat le n-ithe? ~ "Do you have anything to eat (for eating)?"
T? ?ada? gal?nta agam le caitheamh. ~ "I have nice clothes to wear (for wearing)."

mo dteanga

mo + teanga f = mo theanga

Ach b?m in ?sle br? beag?n go d?ireanach mar b?onn fonn ?irithe as na h?oslainn agam.

I don't really understand what you're trying to say here. :oops:

BTW, you handled the comparative adjectives well.

An as an ?oslann t?, n? as Ceanada, go d?chais? Agus an f?idir leat ?oslannais agus Fraincis araon a labhairt? M?s f?idir, c?n ceann is fusa duit?

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Post by FFF »

Are short vowels in a monosyllabic word pronounced as if they are stressed or unstressed? For example, is fear pronounced /f_jar/ or /f_j@r/? If they aren't, then fear is possibly an irregularly spelt member of the first declension.

Also, is the question particle an in any way related to the copula? Or is it just coincidence?

Freisin, bu?ochas leat as ranganna seo! Go raibh riamh sonas agat de bharr d'fh?ile! :)

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Post by aardwolf »

Phasmo wrote:Are short vowels in a monosyllabic word pronounced as if they are stressed or unstressed? For example, is fear pronounced /f_jar/ or /f_j@r/? If they aren't, then fear is possibly an irregularly spelt member of the first declension.

Fear is pronounced /f_jar/. It has irregular genitive and plural forms, and is part of the so-called 5th declension, not the first. The 5th declension should really be called the "irregular declension", as it is merely a catch-all for all irregular nouns, and follows no rules.

Also, is the question particle an in any way related to the copula? Or is it just coincidence?

Pure co?ncidence.

Freisin, bu?ochas leat as ranganna seo! Go raibh riamh sonas agat de bharr d'fh?ile! :)
Go raibh maith agat! T? ?thas orm go bhfuil daoine ag baint tairbhe astu!

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Post by Egein »

aardwolf wrote:Scoil is [skUL].
And it'd be really good if you made a recording!

Ach t? m?r?n oibre bhaile agam a dh?anamh.

In this case, you'd say le d?anamh, because you have homework "for" doing, if that makes sense. Similar sentences would be:
An bhfuil rud agat le n-ithe? ~ "Do you have anything to eat (for eating)?"
T? ?ada? gal?nta agam le caitheamh. ~ "I have nice clothes to wear (for wearing)."

mo dteanga

mo + teanga f = mo theanga

Ach b?m in ?sle br? beag?n go d?ireanach mar b?onn fonn ?irithe as na h?oslainn agam.

I don't really understand what you're trying to say here. :oops:

BTW, you handled the comparative adjectives well.

An as an ?oslann t?, n? as Ceanada, go d?chais? Agus an f?idir leat ?oslannais agus Fraincis araon a labhairt? M?s f?idir, c?n ceann is fusa duit?


I meant:
But I've been feeling abit low lately because I have been feeling like giving up Icelandic.
Ill go word by word.
Ach b?m in ?sle br? beag?n go d?ireanach
But I am (usualy, or should this be in past?)
then my dictionary said "to feel low - bhieth in ?sle br?". beag?n = abit, but I suspect this is used with a completement in genitive and maybe can't stand alone.
Go d?ireanach is supposed to mean lately.

mar b?onn fonn ?irithe as na h?oslainn agam.

Because (there) is fondness
My dictionary said it was "t? fonn si?il agam" = I feel like going for a walk.
I didn't write fonn ?ir? because I thought the verbal noun would have to be in genitive, and so I read that genitive of verbal noun is actually their verbal adjective form. So ?ir? = ?irithe.
And give up Iceland(ic) at me (the fondness is at me).



I'm not Icelandic no. But I've been at it for 5 years. It's my first "learning" language and even since I've been in love with it. I'm good enough to read "The foreigner" by Camus with little help of my friend the dictionary.
French is my mother tongue so I'm not learning it.

But I can speak it. Ill record a new version without all those nasty mistakes. Later. T?im ag an scoil anois.

Linguistics is my next class, so I better go now!

Sl?n leat!
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Post by aardwolf »

Egein wrote:I meant:
But I've been feeling abit low lately because I have been feeling like giving up Icelandic.
Ill go word by word.
Ach b?m in ?sle br? beag?n go d?ireanach
But I am (usualy, or should this be in past?)
then my dictionary said "to feel low - bhieth in ?sle br?". beag?n = abit, but I suspect this is used with a completement in genitive and maybe can't stand alone.
Go d?ireanach is supposed to mean lately.

Hmm. TBH, I'm not familiar with "bheith in ?sle br?, but if it's in the dictionary then no problem! I would have just used "n?lim ag moth? r?-mhaith" or something similar.

For "lately" or "recently", I'd use "le d?ana?" instead of "go d?ireanach".

mar b?onn fonn ?irithe as na h?oslainn agam.

Because (there) is fondness
My dictionary said it was "t? fonn si?il agam" = I feel like going for a walk.
I didn't write fonn ?ir? because I thought the verbal noun would have to be in genitive, and so I read that genitive of verbal noun is actually their verbal adjective form. So ?ir? = ?irithe.
And give up Iceland(ic) at me (the fondness is at me).
Ah, that makes sense. However, "Icelandic" is an ?oslainnis, so it'd be "fonn ?irithe as an ?oslainnis". I thought you meant that you wanted to leave Iceland!

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Post by Egein »

Hehe, No no. That's the last thing I would ever do!

Ok so here is what I shall try to say.

Uell!
Faic ?r an tseachtain seo!
T? an scoil nua go hiontach go f?ill!
B?onn a l?n spraoi agam a bheith le mo chairde ann.
Ach t? m?r?n oibre bhaile agam le dh?anamh. T? n?os m? oibre ann n? ag an scoil ?ile. Ach is mar sin f?in ? an scoil seo francach, d? bhr? sin t? s? n?os fusa ann, i bhFraincis, i mo theanga dh?chais n? ag mo sh?anscoil a bh? i dteanga na namhad, i mB?arla!

Ach n?lim ag moth? r?-mhaith le d?ana?, mar b?onn fonn ?irithe as na ?oslainnis agam. T? s? mar a bheinn go dona aici. Ach t? a fhios agam nach bhfuil.


http://media.putfile.com/ingaeilge

:oops: :oops: :oops:
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Post by Egein »

is it so bad? :oops:
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Post by aardwolf »

Egein wrote:is it so bad? :oops:

Oh! Sorry, I must have missed you post with the soundfile! :oops: :oops:

Wow! It's really good! You speak it very fluently indeed, and the accent is quite good too!

I suppose you want a bit of a critique, so here goes:
<oibre> is pronounced more like [AIbr@]
<ann> is usually [aUn]
But they're mostly to do with orthographical oddities.

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Post by Egein »

aardwolf wrote:
Egein wrote:is it so bad? :oops:

Oh! Sorry, I must have missed you post with the soundfile! :oops: :oops:

Wow! It's really good! You speak it very fluently indeed, and the accent is quite good too!

I suppose you want a bit of a critique, so here goes:
<oibre> is pronounced more like [AIbr@]
<ann> is usually [aUn]
But they're mostly to do with orthographical oddities.


I didn't know about ann. Isn't that more scottish?
I wonder. In my little audio cd's, they say "inniu" [inj@v]. And the lady puts those typical scottish h's before consonants, like (inventing a word) g?ta, would sound like g?hta.
Anyhow!
Thanks alot! :)
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Post by linguoboy »

Egein wrote:
aardwolf wrote:<ann> is usually [aUn]

I didn't know about ann. Isn't that more scottish?

I always thought that was a southern dialectal trait. Western and Northern dialects tend to have tense /n/ for <nn>, don't they?

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Post by Egein »

I remember when learning Scottish, they would pronounce ainn (againn maybe?) like [a?n] or something. Which is abit like [aun]

But do you know where the people in the recordings I own might come form, knowing they say "inniuv" and "'Bhfuil" (not An bhfuil)?
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