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a congress of convoluted conworldery
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 Post subject: In-world conlang
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:34 am 
Avisaru
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Hi guys - dropping back in here after a looong absence, as I finally have a new conlang project :)

I'm working on a fantasy novel setting where one of the main languages is effectively a conlang, in that it was created by an individual (as an attempt to reconstruct and revive a long-dead language based on limited materials). I was just curious as to whether anyone here had done this, or heard of such a beast?

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 Post subject: Re: In-world conlang
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:49 am 
Sumerul
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The most famous in-world conlang of course is the Black Speech.

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 Post subject: Re: In-world conlang
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:12 am 
Avisaru
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WeepingElf wrote:
The most famous in-world conlang of course is the Black Speech.


Ha, good point! I'd forgotten that the orcs had no language of their own. Bad Tolkien fan, no biscuit!

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 Post subject: Re: In-world conlang
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:46 am 
Sanci
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RedFox wrote:
Hi guys - dropping back in here after a looong absence, as I finally have a new conlang project :)

I'm working on a fantasy novel setting where one of the main languages is effectively a conlang, in that it was created by an individual (as an attempt to reconstruct and revive a long-dead language based on limited materials). I was just curious as to whether anyone here had done this, or heard of such a beast?

If it counts, someone probably has written an AltHist where Esperanto is the primary language.


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 Post subject: Re: In-world conlang
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:31 am 
Šriftom
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The obvious thing to do is have someone in-universe try to create a naturalistic conlang with an uncanny resemblance to English and be told it's not even remotely believable.

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 Post subject: Re: In-world conlang
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:31 am 
Lebom
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My proto-language, Lulani, was a conlang in-universe, just so I could forgive myself for assorted non-naturalistic elements. Elements which are fading as I work on it, actually. It was created by Queen Loren after the survivors of a war became one country.


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 Post subject: Re: In-world conlang
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:49 pm 
Sumerul
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My conlang is not naturalistic, so it makes sense to treat it as an in-world conlang. I've re-used it for various conworld attempts; sometimes it's a conlang in-world, sometimes it just happens to have rather unusual characteristics. And sometimes it's created by some sort of deity, which I guess is kind of in between.

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 Post subject: Re: In-world conlang
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:30 am 
Avisaru
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alice wrote:
The obvious thing to do is have someone in-universe try to create a naturalistic conlang with an uncanny resemblance to English and be told it's not even remotely believable.


Hmm, that could be rather tricky to get across when one is writing in English already!

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 Post subject: Re: In-world conlang
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:35 am 
Avisaru
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Ryan of Tinellb wrote:
My proto-language, Lulani, was a conlang in-universe, just so I could forgive myself for assorted non-naturalistic elements. Elements which are fading as I work on it, actually. It was created by Queen Loren after the survivors of a war became one country.


That's not unlike the backstory of my conlang - created by refugees who had been expelled from an empire. Once I have the bones of it down, I want to create a daughter language used by their descendants, which will be a little more "ordinary" than the original creation.

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 Post subject: Re: In-world conlang
PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:57 pm 
Sumerul
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Recently, an old idea of mine reared its ugly head again - Pyctw (pronounced ['piktu]), an alleged surviving Pictish language that looks like a parody of a Celtic language, with an outlandish orthography, weird initial mutations that do not make phonological sense, and other oddballs. The thing is a forgery by a 19-century Celtomaniac. The language has not been worked out yet, though.

Ray Brown from the CONLANG list has done a fictional IAL, Outidic.

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 Post subject: Re: In-world conlang
PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:20 pm 
Osän
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I would love to see bits and pieces of all of these. I love the idea of a 2nd order conlang, though Im not sure many others would call it that.

Im not sure if my idea quite fits in here:

On planet Teppala, during the two peaks of human civilization, every religion formed its own political party, and religion tended to be passed down along hereditary and ethnic lines. (This is why the names of some tribes have unusual names such as Sleepers and Thunderers; the names were political parties' names.) Children of mixed marriages would generally have their identity chosen by their parents, so there was no concept of being, e.g. half Andanese and half Subumpamese.

One artifact of living under this system was that ancestral languages tended to be preserved even in unusual circumstances, such as having people live side by side thousands of years. The Andanese are a prime example of this, as they never had a nation of their own; they formed colonies (often parasitic) inside the nations of other people, and kept their language to themselves.

However, there was also the phenomenon of new political parties branching off from a common base. This happened quite often, such as the Moonshine people branching off from the Crystals in August 3958. This caused the Moonshines to create a new language to go with their new political party, religion, and tribal identity. For pragmatic reasons, they did not simply create a whole new languages from scratch; they took dialectal traits and amplified them. But the entire population was forced to speak the same way, meaning that people had to relearn pronunciation habits and basic vocabulary in those areas in which there were differences between the moonshine dialect and the mainline Crystal dialect of Khulls. THus, only 200 yrs later, the Moonshines and the mainline Crystals could not understand each other without the help of educated translators.

The above is an example of a politically hostile bifurcation. If a political party were branching out but intending to remain an ally, they would create a new language with just a few minor differences, such as coinign a new word for shoelace, so they could be recognized by the gov't as a separate tribe, even if they fully intended to continue to be friendly towards their parent culture and intermarry with each other. There were military and financial advantages to doing this, so it wasnt just a matter of pride: Nama granted eahc new political party military security and a grant to a piece of land for their party members alone should they need to take refuge from their rivals.

Also, if a political alliance was formed, the stronger party would sometimes absorb the weaker party completely, even though the weaker party would lose the privileges they enjoyed from being recognized as an independent organization. This means the weaker party had to give up their language. Often the winning language would adopt many words from the language they absorbed, and begin educating younfg children immediately in the new blended language. Still, the grammar was almost never changed.

Lastly there is the phenomenon of humans interacting with animals. Humans on planet Teppala mostly live only with other humans, but they are restricted to just a few habitats, mostly along temperate and subtropical coastlines and some major rivers. Anywhere outside of this, humans are in the middle of the food chain ratehr than the top and need to ally with one of several sapient animal species just to have a chance of survival. This rresults in a language being compeltely frozen in time, with no changes at all, since the animal species would have difficultly learning to adapt to the changes in the language. Thus, for example, when the Moonshine people joined the penguin societies on the glaciers of Pʷīpʷyàma in the early 4200s, the language they spoke there was frozen with no changes at all for the next 4500 years, while Moonshine spoken outside Pʷīpʷyàma forked off into many daughter languages. Eventually these were all replaced by a single dialect (not Pʷīpʷyàma) spoken in the capital, because these people still held to the principle that all parties must have a single language.

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