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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:30 pm 
Osän
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Another PNP sound change: loss of Pr clusters.

tr dr > ts z

Before front vowels:
pr br > pj bj
kr gr > kj gj
kʷr gʷr > kʷj gʷj

Before back vowels:
pr br > pɣ bɣ > x ɣ
kr gr > kɣ gɣ > kʰ g
kʷr gʷr > kʷɣ gʷɣ > xʷ w

Also, n-flapping happens early - before laryngeal loss and e-epenthesis in schwa clusters. Produces ɾ, which remains distinct from r from *r except in clusters.
*h1e- > i, although I think this is regular.
r > ɣ? why not

Some basic cognates: (PIE - PP - PNP; stress unmarked because not done yet)

mánus 'person' - mą́ru - mɔru
h1nómn 'name' - inámun - inɔmən
wiHrós 'man' - wīrá - wīɣa
gʷḗna 'woman' - kʷę̄́ɾa - kʷɛ̄ɾa (obl. stem gʷnā- - kʷrą̄́ - xʷɔ̄)
ph2tēr 'father' - patḗr - patēɣ
méh2tēr 'mother' - mā́tēr - mātēɣ
bhréh2tēr 'brother' - brā́tēr - ɣātēɣ
swésōr 'sister' - fyə́hur - fyohuɣ
dhugh2tḗr 'daughter' - dukatḗr - dukatēɣ
dayh2wḗr 'husband's brother' - tsawyḗr - tsɔ̄yēɣ
swéḱruH 'in-law' - fyə́kru - fyokʰu (f. fyəkʰā)
h3dónts 'tooth' - utsáŋk - utsaŋk (but probably the nominative is taken over from the accusative, utsantų - utsɔntu; obl. utsənt-)
h2ósth1 'bone' - ácʰi (obl. ácʰi-)
ḱḗr 'heart' - čḗr - čḗɣ (obl. čurts- - čuɣts-)
neh2s 'nose' - nā́s - nās
eḱwos 'horse' - yə́čču - yočču
h2rtḱos 'bear' - aršu - ɔɣšu
wlkʷos 'wolf' - ulku - ulku
h2égros 'field' - agru - ɔgu

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R.Rusanov wrote:
immediately grandchild! an yogurt

Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:51 pm 
Osän
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Kurēi ɛvi, kyośu ulanā ńə śə yətʰ, śoččuŋ pʰyečit, ɛ̄nu ži kuɣu vɔžu vyožəntu ɛ̄nuki myəčʰa bɔɣu, ɛ̄nuki žmyoru ōču byoɣəntu. Ɛvi tu śəččɛ̄mu vɔ̄kyət: čēɣ ɔgutaɣ mɛ̄ śoččuŋ ɔžəntu ańoɣu vitsəntɛ̄. Śəččō tu vɔ̄kənt: čluʒ́i, avɛ̄, čēɣ ʒ́i ɔgutaɣ uŋmɛ̄ vitsəntma. Arēɣ, pɛci, ɔ̄yu uɣ ulanā śebi kuńńɔ̄ci ru gyommu vyotsʰu ńeži ɔ̄yu ulanā yəcʰi. Tas čəčlū ɔ̄yi ɔčʰu bucət.

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R.Rusanov wrote:
immediately grandchild! an yogurt

Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:07 am 
Osän
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Old sig:
Qapi Mongkoush nurrumsh ship 'o'o shi shdug kouzou dlaha.
Shdug nganxish ship tla' mang fushish Qapi Mongkoush.
Xougo. Xougo. Xougo. Xougo. Xougo. Xougo. Xougo.

pl bl > kl gl; again, why not

New sig:
heaven.NOM.SG thing-ACC.PL innumerable-ACC.PL nurture-INF man-DAT.PL bring_forth-FREQ-3SG.PRES
nothing.NOM human-LOC.PL with_which heaven-DAT.SG recompense-INF be.3SG.IPFV
kill-2SG.IMP

_________________
R.Rusanov wrote:
immediately grandchild! an yogurt

Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:15 pm 
Osän
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* PH clusters > P_h, merging with sP
* epenthetic schwa merges with *e as in Greek
* maybe unstressed o > a instead of u?
* maybe different outcomes for syllabic resonants?

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R.Rusanov wrote:
immediately grandchild! an yogurt

Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:28 pm 
Lebom
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:31 am 
Osän
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Many IE languages replace thematic nom.pl ending *-o:s with -oi. Pannonian does not do this, but it does replace the *athematic* nom.pl ending *-es with -oi. These are fairly phonetically similar in PP: -'i vs. -ai.

The thematic animate acc.pl ending is from *-oms > *-ons, not *-o:m.

Evidently there is a present active participle *-ent-h2. I don't see why this shouldn't be preserved.

The instrumental singular ending is from *-eh1 except in some glide-final stems.

The locative is preserved in Pannonian as the base for the innovated locative forms, and also provides the new thematic dative plural -ais'i.

*-ih2 *-uh2 become -ya: -wa:. The genitive singular is innovated as per Italo-Celtic, but retains the athematic-thematic alternation, so -aya: ~ -ya:.

actually i am probably not going to do any of this

_________________
R.Rusanov wrote:
immediately grandchild! an yogurt

Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:58 pm 
Sumerul
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Nortaneous wrote:
Many IE languages replace thematic nom.pl ending *-o:s with -oi. Pannonian does not do this, but it does replace the *athematic* nom.pl ending *-es with -oi. These are fairly phonetically similar in PP: -'i vs. -ai.

This in particular is very bizarre.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:08 am 
Osän
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beeˀkoo beeˀči beeˀčit
beeˀkwa beeˀšam beeˀšaam
beeˀkämi beeˀkäći beeˀkõnt

beˀk beˀč beˀčit
beˀko beˀšu beˀšå
beˀkam beˀkać beˀkõnd

bek beč bečit
beko beš beša
bekam bekać bekõnd

bek beč bečit
beko bekot bektand
bekam bekać bekõnd

---

bééˀkam béékh bééˀš
biiˀčə́ biiˀčám biiˀčáám
biiˀčamyə́ biiˀšə́ biiˀčə́nt

beˀku beˀx beˀš
biˀč biˀču biˀčå
biˀčä'mi biˀš biˀčə́nt

bek bech beš
bič bič bičå
bičäm biš bičõnd

bek bek bekit
bič bič bičå
bičäm bikät bičõnd

---

booˀka booˀša booˀči
? ? ?
biiˀkamyə́ biiˀčə́ biiˀkee

buˀka buˀša buˀči
? ? ?
biˀkä'mi biˀč biˀči

buka bukat buč
biko bikot biktand
bikäm bičat biči

_________________
R.Rusanov wrote:
immediately grandchild! an yogurt

Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:31 am 
Osän
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Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:52 am
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I've been reading up on Avestan so here are some possible sound changes, especially for PP > NP

V:(j w)V > V:(j w)V
a:i > ai in closed syllables, > O:i > oi in open syllables (low-mid and high-mid don't contrast in diphthongs)
ai > æ only in closed syllables? (currently applies everywhere but word-finally, where ai is retained)
e: i: > ej 1j in open syllables (ej also before coronals, or possibly extended by analogy in conjugations characterized by e:, e.g. the subj. sg. in -ei -ei -eid)
dz` (from g') > z` > l`, maybe written <rl> or <rd> and maybe merging with <rd> as in some North Germanic, in which case rt > s` (or K, as has been reconstructed for Avestan; dialectal variation can occur here, but this would have to be before nonrhoticity) -- also possibly nonpostvocalic r > l` instead of j/w, so rluop 'turnip'
[did PIE even have r-initial roots? both of the ones on Wiktionary look fake. Latin re:te > Pannonian *re:ta > NP rleita 'net', let's say. and Latin re:si:na > Pannonian r@s\i:na > rlësiëina]
PC > PhC > FC for some C (e.g. *pnew-mn > fnauman > fruoma 'breath')

the verb conjugation really needs to be redone but that can be done later

_________________
R.Rusanov wrote:
immediately grandchild! an yogurt

Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:04 am 
Osän
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f

_________________
R.Rusanov wrote:
immediately grandchild! an yogurt

Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:50 am 
Osän
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some words, I think these are right. -@J > -in, -@l > u, -an in the -an-declension > -ê

žëmê 'human'
ˀanië 'man'
kirå 'woman'
candžå 'tongue'
sianië 'blood' (irregular; *iha- > *hya-)
čaaˀna 'grain'
ačka 'field'
ałåsël 'plow'
meˀd 'mead'
eimê 'seed'
güˀk 'yoke'
yačča 'horse'
yåkin 'liver'

_________________
R.Rusanov wrote:
immediately grandchild! an yogurt

Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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