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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:12 pm 
Sanci
Sanci

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:19 pm
Posts: 22
Wow! Very interesting intellectual exercise you've got going here, deriving an entirely alien conceptual framework of physical (and even, I think, a few logical) laws and then building a world around them. Although I can't really grasp the world in any but the abstract sense, just trying to wrap my mind around it is proving quite fun!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:19 pm 
Sanci
Sanci

Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:07 pm
Posts: 64
I'm glad to hear you enjoy my conworld, Mr. Eldritch. Thank you for your kind words.

Common Characteristics Among the Three Dimensional Classifications of Life
Sorts of organisms in Kćeća Ora are not distributed equiprobably throughout the dimensional classifications of life.

Most Tridimes are simple, motile, Allmind creatures. Sizes range from miniscule - things which could fit on your fingertip - to moderately large; approaching the size of dinosaurs. As on Earth, symmetry is common. Among quadripeds, bilateral symmetry is most common. Quadripeds are, themselves, most common among medium- and large-sized creatures. Small creatures tend to have many limbs.

Larger Tridimes tend to be fleshy, smaller to be chitinous.

Few Tridimes are intelligent comparable to humans. Currently I only have one in mind, which I'll describe in a later post. I don't expect to develop more than three or four distinct species.

Most Quadimes are complex Allmind creatures. Intelligence is common among Quadimes, and not restricted to human-shaped creatures. Onemindness is more common among Quadimes than Tridimes, but still rare.

Quadimes tend to have more limbs and more types of limbs than comparably-sized Tridimes. This is necessitated by their ability to perceive and thus move willfully through more dimensions. Symmetry is still common. Though bilateral is still dominant, proportionally more examples of trilateral and radial symmetry are seen than in Tridimes.

Few Quadimes are inherently capable of flight, whereas flight is common among Tridimes. This is because flight through four spatial dimensions is more complex. Fewer organisms were capable of evolving the necessary brain and body structures.

Few Quadimes are small. Most range in size from deer-like to elephant-like.

Most Quindimes are complex Onemind organisms capable of free movement without the use of limbs. This is typically achieved by an organ which allows contra-gravitational movement. This evolved because of the difficulty of moving freely in five-dimensional space through the use of limbs.

Because "gravity" is taken out of the equation, Quindimes can become larger than Tridimes or Quadimes. They also rarely follow any sort of symmetry. Thus, you can imagine Quindimes as at once cetacean and Cthulian.

Intelligence is rare among Quindimes. However, those few instances of intelligence are far above human-level.

There's no such thing as a Mindless Tridime, Quadime or Quindime; the dimensional classification describes which dimensions an organism is capable of perceiving. Mindless organisms (bacteria, plants) are, by definition, non-perceiving.

Next post, I'll describe several specific species of creatures I've imagined, including examples from all three Lifetypes and dimensional classifications.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:38 pm 
Sumerul
Sumerul

Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:15 pm
Posts: 4090
Location: Spain
Nice, I'm still following this :D. I loved the depiction of Quindimes as Cthulhian horrors! It certainly surprised me. I love Lovecraftian mythology, I definetely have to get to read one of his books :(.

Do the three categories of dimensional beings usually share a same ecosystem or do they rarely encounter each other? (Or are you leaving this for a later post?)


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:59 pm 
Sumerul
Sumerul

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:07 pm
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Location: Miracle, Inc. Headquarters
Quindimes are a pretty cool concept.

Do they tend to move out of phase with the lower dimensions? Or are they always able to manipulate objects within 3 dimensional space?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:38 pm 
Sanci
Sanci

Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:07 pm
Posts: 64
Eandil, I'm glad someone's following this. The Quindimes are only Cthulhian in that they have large, non-euclidean, asymmetrical bodies. They aren't necessarily demonic or evil.

Beings of different dimensional classification can and do live in proximity to each other, however the lower-Dimes would likely rarely notice. Imagine there were a being only capable of perceiving two dimensions living on the floor of your bedroom. Being unable to perceive higher dimensions it would rarely if ever leave the surface of the floor (only ever by happenstance, like how creatures of Kćeća Ora sometimes do). The creature would only be able to perceive you when you were in contact with the bedroom floor; when on your bed, sitting on a chair or in a different room, it wouldn't be able to perceive you, even though you might be mere feet away.

The same is true in Kćeća Ora. A population of Tridimes might live right next to a population of Quadimes but rarely or never realize it.

Bristel, Space in Kćeća Ora is six-dimensional. Everything has six spatial dimensions, including molecules, Tridimes, Quadimes and Quindimes. The dimensional classification only describes what an organism is capable of perceiving, not what its body consists of. There's no such thing as three-dimensional space, or a three-dimensional object. Just as in our three-dimensional Briah, there's no such thing as two-dimensional space. Even a "flat" sheet of paper has three dimensions, however small the third might be.

Example Organisms in Kćeća Ora
Humans are only capable of perceiving three spatial dimensions. I'll describe the following organisms as they'd appear to us, as attempting to describe their fourth, fifth and sixth-dimensional appearance would be meaningless.

I've imagined an area in Kćeća Ora consisting of many tunnels through long-dead rock which I'll call the Deep Passage. Imagine it as an oversized ant colony; many twisting tunnels interspersed with larger chambers.

In the Deep Passage, the direction of "gravity" is towards the surface of the rock. I imagine the total surface area of the Deep Passage as roughly equaling the surface area of Spain.

The Deep Passage is almost always covered by Darkness. Whereas in most of Kćeća Ora, intelligent beings think of Darkness as coming and going, in the Deep Passage, one would think of the absence of Darkness as coming and going, and rarely.

The Deep Passage is so called because its tunnels happen to link to many other areas of Space.

One creature native to the Deep Passage I'll call a lumite (luminous + mite), an unintelligent Allmind Tridime. Two or three could fit in the palm of your hand. Their bodies consist of an inner section of hard chitin fused to an outer layer of a transparent, organic crystalline material which exhibits the Kćeća Ora equivalent of bioluminescence, dispelling Darkness around it out to several feet. This dispelling effect leaves the area cleared "bluish" in "color."

They have four limbs which double as locomotion and mandible aids; they have clamp-like mouthes on the undersides of their bodies. They feed on organic rock by biting on, then using leverage from their limbs to break off a piece as if using bolt cutters. They then break up the chunk into smaller pieces for consumption.

Lumites crystalline shells are the hardest naturally-occuring material in the Deep Passage. They have two sexes, reproduce sexually and typically live in small family clusters, but go out to search for food independently. Since organic rock is rare in the Deep Passage, this increases the chances of success. Lumites have an excellent sense of direction, keeping a mental map of feeding grounds to which to lead their kin, where they'll live anew until the organic rock is gone and they move on.

The breaking up of organic rock by lumites creates microscopic rock dust, which will eventually settle and often provides the substrate for plant-like organisms. Thus, the dead rock of the Deep Passage is broken up intermittently by small patches of plants.

Lumites are members of an extended related evolutionary family. Numerous mutations before the lumites I've just described evolved, another evolutionary line branched off consisting of larger, shellless lumites whose elongated teardrop-shaped bodies "bioluminesce." These "slug lumite" are plant eaters, have more limbs which are used exclusively for locomotion and move quickly compared to the "crab lumites."

Slug lumites are Quadimes. Tridime sojourners in the Deep Passage will often see slug lumites appear to climb into or out of solid wall.

Another significant branch are the "flea lumites," which are flea-sized, shellless, non-luminous cousins of crab lumites. They travel in swarms and feed off a sort of parasitic lichen which grows on the larger, slower denizens of the Deep Passage.

Among those denizens are what I'll call "cave pigs;" dog-sized, fleshy, hairless opportunistic omnivores with short, neckless heads, short, stubby tails and four stocky, elephant-like legs.

Lumites of all forms are blind; they perceive the world through vibrations in the surface of the rock they live on. Crab and slug lumites evolved "bioluminescence" in symbiosis with cave pigs before slug lumites branched off. Cave pigs have sight, and tend to follow the glow of lumites as they wander in search of food. The comparably large size of cave pigs scares off the lumites primary predator, which I'll call cacomorphs (cacophony + lagomorph).

Cacomorphs are unintelligent rabbit-sized Quadime Allmind predators. They have small heads with three forward-facing eyes, small arms with small, grasping claws and leathery bodies with double-bent-up legs (like a rabbit leg connected to another rabbit leg) which they use to leap far and quick. Their legs are strong enough that even in a passage a dozen meters in diameter, they could leap from one surface to another, straight through the middle.

Cacomorphs, so called because of their rabbit-like legs and the high-pitched cackle they make as a sound of contentment, typically lurk along passages the lumites are incapable of perceiving and leap out as they come by. Because the size of a cacomorph compared to a cave pig is roughly equivalent to a human compared to an elephant, the former will typically avoid the latter, because while cave pigs aren't predatory or aggressive, if spooked, they could crush a cacomorph underfoot.

When a cacomorph successfully captures a crab lumite, it will smash it against the rock to disorient it, then use a kick from its powerful legs to launch the creature through the air, slamming it against the opposing surface. While the force of this impact isn't enough to crack the crystalline shell of a crab lumite itself, it can shatter the chitinous underbody, which can then be pried from the inedible crystalline structure and eaten itself. Slug lumites can be eaten as-is, but cacomorphs rarely bother them. In addition to being faster and harder to catch (since they're fellow Quadimes and can see the cacomorphs coming), slug lumites taste worse to cacomorphs than crab lumites.

Another inhabitant of the Deep Passage is the corkfly (corkscrew + fly), an unintelligent Allmind Tridime plant-eater. The soft, fuzzy body of a corkfly is long and thin and has a single wing running down the length, like a screw. Being lightweight, the corkfly flies through the middle of passages, where gravity from each surface is equal, pushing itself along by twisting, its screw-like wing propelling it along. They feed primarily on the sorts of plants that grow in the wake of crab lumite feeding.

I didn't expect to write so much about a single ecosystem. I'll give more organism examples in a future post.

Note on the Dimensional Classifications of Organisms
I forgot to make explicit; Tridime is derived from the root tri- and a truncation of "dimension." The same applies to Quadimes and Quindimes.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:05 am 
Sumerul
Sumerul

Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:15 pm
Posts: 4090
Location: Spain
Very interesting indeed! You keep surprising me. I love it.

I'm sorry to go back to this, but I'm still struggling with the concept of time in a six-dimensional space. As I imagine you're describing it, I picture a quadime hunting a tridime. Aren't they both perceiving, apart from their up, down, left, right, ahead and behind and the equivalent in other dimensions, a sense of order in the flow of events? Isn't this time already? Or does it correspond to the sixth dimension nobody can perceive (and, presumably, move in it voluntarily, thus making it appear like time to us)? Do all tridimes perceive the same three dimensions?

The ability to perceive more dimensions seems to have evolved quickly from the ancestor of slug lumites and crab lumites to each, respectively. Or was it lost in one branch, rather than acquired?

Also, have you thought about an equivalent to water?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:48 pm 
Sanci
Sanci

Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:07 pm
Posts: 64
Elandil, I think your struggle is due to equating a sense of a flow of time with a physical thing called time. The two are distinct. In Briah, we all have the same sense of time because there is a physical thing called time which we all necessarily experience in the same way. In Kćeća Ora, there is no physical thing called time. Despite this, creatures still experience a flow of events, thus have a subjective sense of time. This sense is purely subjective and not related to any external, physical phenomenon.

To clarify, one could not objectively identify a flow of events in Kćeća Ora. You would have to arbitrarily choose a given creature's subjective sense of time, and order all events according to it. Because this choice would be arbitrary, it wouldn't mean anything.

You also appear to want to attach a concept of time to a dimension. If Kćeća Ora had time the same way Briah had time, then Kćeća Ora would have seven dimensions -- it's six spatial and a seventh time. As such, Kćeća Ora has no time dimension.

All Tridimes do perceive the same three dimensions. That's a great question. And all Quadimes perceive the same additional dimension, as do all Quindimes. The dimensions are ordered in complexity; Tridimes see the "lowest" three, Quadimes the "lowest" four.

Crab lumites are Tridimes, not Quadimes. Slug lumites branched off from their common ancestor. The mutations that branched them off into a separate specie also made them Quadimes.

There is no equivalent to water per se in Kćeća Ora. There are liquids, just as there are gasses and solids, but to my ears, "equivalent to water" means "ubiquitous, rare liquid necessary to all forms of life." Life is diverse throughout Kćeća Ora, there is virtually no common thread of necessity for life (Vitae being an exception). Things vital to one form of life might never be seen by another.

Scale of Kćeća Ora
Kćeća Ora is significantly smaller than Briah. If you were to take all the physical mass in a single, average-sized Briah galaxy and add it together, you'd have an idea of the total size of Kćeća Ora. Imagine if an entire Briah galaxy coalesced into a single (though six-dimensional) land mass. That'd be comparable to Kćeća Ora; incomparably larger than Earth, incomparably smaller than Briah.

Re-Imagining Strings
Strings in Kćeća Ora are differentiated solely by their vibration frequency. I've decided to tweak the way Strings work. Before, I said physical matter consisted of many Strings, the way matter in Briah consists of many quarks and electrons. Now, I'm changing this to size, rather than quantity; whereas types of Strings are differentiated by vibration frequency, individual Strings of the same type are differentiated by size.

For example, earlier I said "molecules" of Vitae consisted of 144 Blue, 33 Green and 11 Red Strings. Now I'm saying Vitae consists of a single Blue, Green and Red String. However, the single Blue String in a molecule of Vitae is indeed 144 times larger than the smallest possible Blue String. I imagine many intelligent species in Kćeća Ora would quantize that as "144 Blue Strings." For our purposes, just remember that that doesn't mean 144 individual Blue Strings, but a single Blue String with a quantized size.

Everything else I said about Strings still applies.

Common Materials in Kćeća Ora
In Briah, common (everyday) materials include woods, minerals, glasses, metals, plastics and textiles. Kćeća Ora contains analogs to most if not all of these. Additionally, there are types of materials in Kćeća Ora not seen in Briah.

Organic Rocks
More properly, "organic minerals," as some are crystalline. Discussed earlier.

Organic Metals
Some organisms, including plant-like and animal-like species, have components with metallic qualities. The majority of such organisms are tree-like, whose epidermii are metallic rather than wood-like and produce what we might call "metallic woods." Like metals, they're hard, "shiny" and good conductors of various forms of energy (the only one of which I've discussed so far was heat), but like woods they're fibrous and carveable but unmalleable and unmeltable.

Solma
What I'll call solma (sol + material) is a material someone from Briah might think of as solidified light. Solma is very hard, unmalleable, uncompressable, a poor conductor of energy, cannot hold an edge and is naturally luminescent, semitransparent and ethereally lightweight. This lightness of weight is particular; solma isn't easily buffetted by wind or scattered like fallen leaves, but a car-sized chunk of solma would scarsely proove difficult to lift for a cripple. Like diamond in Briah, solma in Kćeća Ora forms when organic material (organic crystal in this case) is placed under extreme pressure and high heat for long periods of time. Because it's so hard and thus difficult to manipulate, refining solma is considered high technology. Solma comes in a variety of "colors."

Eidol
What I'll call eidol (from eidolon) is an ultra-low density organic solid which is flexible, lightly compressible and nonporous. A creature whose body is eidolous would likely be described as a ghost or phantom by someone from Briah. Indeed, most creatures with eidolous bodies are Quindimes and move freely through space, rather than walk, swim or fly. Eidol is "out of phase" with most forms of solid matter, allowing eidolous and non-eidolous material to occupy the same point in space. The major exception is organics; eidol interacts "solidly" with organic matter. Typically, eidol appears "colorless," though visible. Don't think white or black, but achroma.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:50 am 
Niš
Niš

Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:50 pm
Posts: 13
I hope this hasn't been abandoned; it's fascinating.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:12 am 
Sanci
Sanci

Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:07 pm
Posts: 64
White Crayon, I'm happy you find Kćeća Ora so fascinating. I haven't abandoned it. My interests in a single project naturally wax and wane. Currently I'm working on another conworld, apart from Kćeća Ora or Sayre. I may even make a topic about it. My main interest will eventually return to Kćeća Ora. Thankfully, topics take a long time to be deleted from Conlangery & Conworlds, so this will still be here when I return. By which I mean I won't have to re-make a topic; I do have all the info here saved.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:19 am 
Niš
Niš

Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:13 am
Posts: 8
I went ahead and saved this thread to the Internet Archive. This is way too good to lose. By the way, I'm curious as to how much you took from real-life String Theory and how much you came up with yourself. This is all fascinating.


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