[Updated 6/18] Proto-Deithas grammar pdf (you better look)
[Updated 6/18] Proto-Deithas grammar pdf (you better look)
Alright.
Since the first thread was a complete flop with me posting more than receiving replies, I decided to upload the reference grammar .pdf for you to look at, find errors, questions, or confusing parts of the grammar so I can fix it.
The pdf can be found here. (Current size: 2.26 MB, 53 pages).
As of now, the family tree is receiving a slight update as I work on sound changes into the first tier of daughters. The earliest daughter, to which a lot of this grammar is owed, is Ɛzɔṛḍ, or New Deithas, has its sound changes posted. References to its language will be made at a later date as I'm able to trump up more examples. [Update] I have worked out the Proto-North-Deithas sound changes, which mainly involve the generation of voiced aspirated plosives, and expanded the retroflex and palatal inventories. The sound changes have not yet made it into the grammar, if only because I need to fine tune some of the sound changes.
As well, syntax is coming along, but for those who are interested, the language is VSO, VAdv, AdjN, AdjMSt, GenN, and Rel Clause. More to come soon, of course.
Now! Read! Post!
Since the first thread was a complete flop with me posting more than receiving replies, I decided to upload the reference grammar .pdf for you to look at, find errors, questions, or confusing parts of the grammar so I can fix it.
The pdf can be found here. (Current size: 2.26 MB, 53 pages).
As of now, the family tree is receiving a slight update as I work on sound changes into the first tier of daughters. The earliest daughter, to which a lot of this grammar is owed, is Ɛzɔṛḍ, or New Deithas, has its sound changes posted. References to its language will be made at a later date as I'm able to trump up more examples. [Update] I have worked out the Proto-North-Deithas sound changes, which mainly involve the generation of voiced aspirated plosives, and expanded the retroflex and palatal inventories. The sound changes have not yet made it into the grammar, if only because I need to fine tune some of the sound changes.
As well, syntax is coming along, but for those who are interested, the language is VSO, VAdv, AdjN, AdjMSt, GenN, and Rel Clause. More to come soon, of course.
Now! Read! Post!
Last edited by Neek on Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.
- nebula wind phone
- Sanci
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:58 am
- Location: Austin, Texas, USA
- Contact:
I'm liking the way you do oblique case for monosyllables. Very quirky but well justified.
Only complaint so far is that the table of primary personal prefixes is crazy hard to read.
Only complaint so far is that the table of primary personal prefixes is crazy hard to read.
"When I was about 16 it occurred to me that conlanging might be a sin, but I changed my mind when I realized Adam and Eve were doing it before the Fall." —Mercator
Very nice document layout, I must say. For some reason it's very aesthetically appealing. I assume you use LaTeX, I do too, but somehow my documents never look that organized I hope you don't mind I'll probably copy a few stylistic features from your document for mine (also CC-NC-SA).
Page 25 there's a typo, you write "thought" instead of "though".
As for the grammar, looks good. I might look back over it later.
Page 25 there's a typo, you write "thought" instead of "though".
As for the grammar, looks good. I might look back over it later.
I looked. It was nice. 10 voices is a bit much tho.
Catch me on YouTube.Pthug wrote:i can imagineViktor77 wrote:I grew up my entire life surrounded by a Special Ed educator.
I'll probably go through and rework the tables. I dislike white cells on black lines, but I might try to use white lines instead.nebula wind phone wrote:I'm liking the way you do oblique case for monosyllables. Very quirky but well justified.
Only complaint so far is that the table of primary personal prefixes is crazy hard to read.
The oblique in monosyllables, to be honest, was one of the hardest things to get down. Originally, I had no problems because the numerical affixes were compulsory. But I realized this was ass, so by making them optional, it meant monosyllables now had a problem forming their obliques. But there are always work-arounds.
Thanks for pointing out the typo. I can't them all.Zoris wrote:Very nice document layout, I must say. For some reason it's very aesthetically appealing. I assume you use LaTeX, I do too, but somehow my documents never look that organized I hope you don't mind I'll probably copy a few stylistic features from your document for mine (also CC-NC-SA).
Page 25 there's a typo, you write "thought" instead of "though".
As for the grammar, looks good. I might look back over it later.
I produced the grammar based with Microsoft Word 2007 with Export to PDF--surprisingly, not LaTeX. OpenOffice has the same feature, to Export to PDF, so that would help. I haven't tried my hands on LaTeX yet, but if I can do this with out of the box software, who knows what sort of havoc I can cause?
Thank you! For the voices, they shouldn't really be called such, but have a few points in their favor.MrKrov wrote:I looked. It was nice. 10 voices is a bit much tho.
1). They modify valency to a regular degree.
2). They are highly productive, grammatical, and not purely derivational. Depletive detransitives are very limited in their usage, and despite providing a lexical reason, they can't be derived any further. You, for instance, can't say, "I cause him to drown" with a depletive detransitive construction plus a causative. Some of them interact--but they don't all interact.
However, there's plenty playing against them.
1). The avalent is more or less an finite adverb or an affirmative, but it's probably not a voice.
2). The locative is the same thing, but for verbs of motions.
3). The malefactive/benefactive can be joined with causatives, for instance. Those two plus the causative can be joined with the detransitive. Voices shouldn't have this much freedom.
The issue boiled down: What else do you call a grammatical system of valency shifting? Organizing them together makes things easier--but no doubt, the analysts do go a little overboard.
- nebula wind phone
- Sanci
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:58 am
- Location: Austin, Texas, USA
- Contact:
Yeah, I just assumed you'd LaTeXed it too. (It probably woulda been easier with LaTeX — but then again, I always think everyone's lives would be easier with LaTeX, even if the only thing they ever type is letters to Grandma.) That's a seriously impressive document to have wrung out of Word.
"When I was about 16 it occurred to me that conlanging might be a sin, but I changed my mind when I realized Adam and Eve were doing it before the Fall." —Mercator
Latex,, shmatex... I've tried to use latex a few times now and all I end up with are bland, generic, plain ugly documents. I can never get it to do what I want, instead of it doing what it wants, formatting things with OOTB format templates. I'm sure there are ways to go around this, but I don't know them.nebula wind phone wrote:Yeah, I just assumed you'd LaTeXed it too. (It probably woulda been easier with LaTeX — but then again, I always think everyone's lives would be easier with LaTeX, even if the only thing they ever type is letters to Grandma.) That's a seriously impressive document to have wrung out of Word.
- nebula wind phone
- Sanci
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:58 am
- Location: Austin, Texas, USA
- Contact:
- Guitarplayer II
- Lebom
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:44 pm
- Location: Marburg, Germany
- Contact:
What bothered me most is that I had to look up the syntax of different commands for more elaborate stuff, which often took longer than actually typing it out. Nowadays I'm using OpenOffice, and for most purposes that's enough for me.
Except OOO still doesn't allow OpenType. Shame on it for not even supporting simple fi-ligatures.
Except OOO still doesn't allow OpenType. Shame on it for not even supporting simple fi-ligatures.
giˈtaɹ.plɛɪ̯ɚ‿n dɪs.ˈgaɪz • [b][url=http://sanstitre.nfshost.com/sbk]Der Sprachbaukasten[/url][/b]
[size=84]And! [url=http://bit.ly/9dSyTI]Ayeri Reference Grammar[/url] (upd. 28 Sep 2010)[/size]
[size=84]And! [url=http://bit.ly/9dSyTI]Ayeri Reference Grammar[/url] (upd. 28 Sep 2010)[/size]
Pleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease!Neek wrote:As to this whole LaTeX/OpenOffice/MS Office thing, I wonder if I should post a tutorial on how to do it. Wouldn't hurt, would it?
"It will not come by waiting for it. It will not be said, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is.' Rather, the Kingdom of the Father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it."
– The Gospel of Thomas
– The Gospel of Thomas
- Thomas Winwood
- Lebom
- Posts: 105
- Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2002 7:47 am
- Contact:
MSOffice and OO.org are pretty easy, but still, wouldn't hurt. I'm particularly interested in someone doing a TeX thing, especially if it focuses on one of the many GUI for it, like Lyx; I tried to use Lyx and it was just headaches, crashes and ugly-ass docs.Neek wrote:As to this whole LaTeX/OpenOffice/MS Office thing, I wonder if I should post a tutorial on how to do it. Wouldn't hurt, would it?
- nebula wind phone
- Sanci
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:58 am
- Location: Austin, Texas, USA
- Contact:
Short answer: Yes.Torco wrote:so can I make my own format template, define fonts, and whatnot ?nebula wind phone wrote:No, it's true — as much as I love LaTeX, its default page layout and its built-in fonts are ugly as sin.
Long answer: You probably don't want to do most of this stuff yourself. The thing to do is to take advantage of extensions that have already been written — the single best thing about LaTeX is that most of the common formatting problems have already been solved by someone else, so you don't have to. Most people who use LaTeX regularly have a list of a dozen or so packages that they Just Can't Do Without. But yeah, in a pinch, you can define your own formatting commands and document styles and so on.
(As for fonts... the simplest solution is probably to use XeTeX. It's a TeX clone that's been rewritten to use modern font technology — so you can just use the normal fonts you've already got installed on your system, same as you'd do in Word or OO or whatever. Makes life much simpler.)
"When I was about 16 it occurred to me that conlanging might be a sin, but I changed my mind when I realized Adam and Eve were doing it before the Fall." —Mercator
Very nice! I'm always impressed when someone shows relationships between genealogically related languages like this ("word A comes from Proto-language *a", and so on).
I know it's a draft copy, though, so I hope you don't mind my little nitpick:
On page 20 (similar to Rik's picking-up of your 5.3.d gloss), the glosses for 5.5.k and 5.5.l are the same. The in-language sentences are different and the English translations are different, but the glosses are both relate to "him always eating turtle".
I know it's a draft copy, though, so I hope you don't mind my little nitpick:
On page 20 (similar to Rik's picking-up of your 5.3.d gloss), the glosses for 5.5.k and 5.5.l are the same. The in-language sentences are different and the English translations are different, but the glosses are both relate to "him always eating turtle".
I don't mind nitpicking at all (and those aren't nitpicks, those are actual errors. Nitpicking would be attempting me to cite obscure comma rules or modify a phrase very lightly). Thank you for catching that.James0289 wrote:Very nice! I'm always impressed when someone shows relationships between genealogically related languages like this ("word A comes from Proto-language *a", and so on).
I know it's a draft copy, though, so I hope you don't mind my little nitpick:
On page 20 (similar to Rik's picking-up of your 5.3.d gloss), the glosses for 5.5.k and 5.5.l are the same. The in-language sentences are different and the English translations are different, but the glosses are both relate to "him always eating turtle".
Typo. Corrected.Gaxa wrote:A nitpick (from page 33):
"Despite its Cartesian fullness, this system is hardly regularly, oftentimes triggering a sandhi process (5.6.a)."
I assume it should read hardly regular.
On the road to syntax, because derivational morphology is dildos to right up.