zompist bboard

THIS IS AN ARCHIVE ONLY - see Ephemera
It is currently Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:32 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 69 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:31 pm 
Sanci
Sanci

Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:12 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Silkeborg, Denmark
Hey folks... you asked for it, and now it's getting quite a bit closer. Here's a screenshot of WordBuilder running under mono and using the GTK UI library.

Image

I hope to be able to package something up for you soon. Until then, source code is available at GitHub - you'll want to work with the monowordbuilder solution. I'll have to figure out how to clean up that github thingie as well.

Anyhow, next thing I'm going to work on is export functionality. Since the current incarnation is a word generator only and doesn't have its own dictionary, I figured one option was to output something that faiuwle's Conlang Dictionary would eat.

Any other suggestions for formats that would be nice?

_________________
WordBuilder


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:23 pm 
Smeric
Smeric
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:45 pm
Posts: 2373
Location: Santiago de Chile
If you make your app be compatible with faiuwle's CD that would be incredible! there would be a cross-plattform zeebgrown conlanging suite in existence, so how cool is that?

.ods and .xls would be good ideas, and probably an access-like database could be a good idea as well.

The app looks awesome, but the syntax that defines words doesn't seem transparent... will it be documented?

_________________
Articles on Suenu - Amphitrite


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:29 pm 
Smeric
Smeric
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2003 1:48 pm
Posts: 1128
Location: Litareng, Keynami
He's got a tutorial on his blog. Syntax highlighting as well for the non-Windows versions would be nice, of course... Oh, also an icon in 48x48 (at least). The version I downloaded a couple of weeks ago to have a look at it only included an icon in 16x16, however that looks pretty ugly if you make a shortcut anywhere else than in the start menu.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:45 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:26 am
Posts: 512
Location: MA north shore
Looks neat - I'll download the linux version and maybe it will actually work for me this time. :P

As far as exporting goes, you could kill a lot of birds with one stone if you export as CSV. CD can read that, and so can most standard spreadsheets, and maybe database programs as well. Also, it's easy to implement. You probably wouldn't be able to get all of the subforms and such in there, but CD wouldn't use them anyway, and people using spreadsheets are probably just going to want a single table, as well.

Or actually, you might do something like this too:
Code:
Root,Present,Past,Continuing
eko,ekone,ekonka,ekonapak

which might be nice for a spreadsheet.

_________________
It's (broadly) [faɪ.ˈjuw.lɛ]
#define FEMALE

ConlangDictionary 0.3 3/15/14 (ZBB thread)

Quis vult in terra stare,
Cum possit volitare?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:06 pm 
Smeric
Smeric
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:45 pm
Posts: 2373
Location: Santiago de Chile
This reminds me; regarding your CD, faiuwle, a suggestion that -hopefully, I don't know, I'm no coder- won't be too hard to code: Why not having CD write the formula used to produce it at the beggining of the file at the moment of export and then, when it's ordered to import a csv .txt file it can read it, search for that line and, if it finds it, import it automagically without the user having to input the formula.

sorry for tha crossthreading :D

on topic: I can't download the program, the link is broken... =(

_________________
Articles on Suenu - Amphitrite


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:19 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:26 am
Posts: 512
Location: MA north shore
Sure, that'd be easy. Of course, you couldn't import the phonology that way, but then Alfar could make auto-readable CSV files.

_________________
It's (broadly) [faɪ.ˈjuw.lɛ]
#define FEMALE

ConlangDictionary 0.3 3/15/14 (ZBB thread)

Quis vult in terra stare,
Cum possit volitare?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:24 am 
Sanci
Sanci

Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:12 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Silkeborg, Denmark
Quote:
As far as exporting goes, you could kill a lot of birds with one stone if you export as CSV.


Aye. The Windows version already did that, including branches and marks.

Would definately like the option to make auto-readable CSVs. I'll have to take a look at what CD can import... will it work if there's no translation for the words?

Quote:
He's got a tutorial on his blog. Syntax highlighting as well for the non-Windows versions would be nice, of course... Oh, also an icon in 48x48 (at least). The version I downloaded a couple of weeks ago to have a look at it only included an icon in 16x16, however that looks pretty ugly if you make a shortcut anywhere else than in the start menu.


Yes, I expect to be working on syntax highlighting soonish. Not sure how long it'll take, as I have very little experience with GTK.

Icon, yes.

Quote:
on topic: I can't download the program, the link is broken... =(


Which link is that?

_________________
WordBuilder


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:15 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:26 am
Posts: 512
Location: MA north shore
Alfar wrote:
[Would definately like the option to make auto-readable CSVs. I'll have to take a look at what CD can import... will it work if there's no translation for the words?


Everything except the actual word is optional.

_________________
It's (broadly) [faɪ.ˈjuw.lɛ]
#define FEMALE

ConlangDictionary 0.3 3/15/14 (ZBB thread)

Quis vult in terra stare,
Cum possit volitare?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:25 am 
Smeric
Smeric
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:45 pm
Posts: 2373
Location: Santiago de Chile
on this page
http://whee.dk/?page_id=65

the part where it says that the current version of WB is here
http://whee.dk/wordbuilder/WordBuilder.msi

_________________
Articles on Suenu - Amphitrite


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:00 pm 
Sanci
Sanci

Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:12 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Silkeborg, Denmark
Oh, ouch... I'll fix that real quick. That's supposed to be the installer for the windows version, btw. I am still somewhat clueless on how I'd package a linux version - I guess a tgz of the executable(s) and relevant dlls will do the trick, and I'd have to let people install mono and gtk# on the side.

faiuwle, do I have to/can I provide a list of phonemes in the csv?

_________________
WordBuilder


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:07 pm 
Smeric
Smeric
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2003 1:48 pm
Posts: 1128
Location: Litareng, Keynami
Really comfortable would be .deb and .rpm packages for the several distros.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:31 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:26 am
Posts: 512
Location: MA north shore
Alfar wrote:
faiuwle, do I have to/can I provide a list of phonemes in the csv?


No - those are only stored in the actual CD savefiles - you'd have to enter the phonology before importing the wordlist. If you wanted to export phonemes they could probably be loaded, but in order to have them parsed correctly you'd need the phonotactics too, and I don't suppose your app would have any way of knowing that. If you wanted to export phonologies for individual words, you'd also have to specify the syllable structure and the like.

_________________
It's (broadly) [faɪ.ˈjuw.lɛ]
#define FEMALE

ConlangDictionary 0.3 3/15/14 (ZBB thread)

Quis vult in terra stare,
Cum possit volitare?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:38 pm 
Sanci
Sanci

Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:12 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Silkeborg, Denmark
I kindof expected that answer. Fair enough.

Actually, I had a brief thought about working the other way and being able to translate a syllable structure and phono-whatevers to a basic WordBuilder script - a way of getting started.

RPMs and such would be a logical step for later, I suppose. I remember being fond of RPMs when I did linux back in the day ;)

_________________
WordBuilder


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:45 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:26 am
Posts: 512
Location: MA north shore
Alfar wrote:
Actually, I had a brief thought about working the other way and being able to translate a syllable structure and phono-whatevers to a basic WordBuilder script - a way of getting started.


That would be pretty cool, actually. Were you thinking about having CD output a script, or having CD output the phonotactics and WB generate the script? But either way, then you could specify the phonotactics, generate a script, and then import the wordlist knowing that the phonotactics would match.

_________________
It's (broadly) [faɪ.ˈjuw.lɛ]
#define FEMALE

ConlangDictionary 0.3 3/15/14 (ZBB thread)

Quis vult in terra stare,
Cum possit volitare?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:58 pm 
Smeric
Smeric
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:45 pm
Posts: 2373
Location: Santiago de Chile
Guitarplayer wrote:
Really comfortable would be .deb and .rpm packages for the several distros.


it would be awesome indeed, but doesn't faiuwle's CD need no installation? maybe this one could do the same.

.... Is it possible -and I'm just spitballing here- to merge both apps? it seems like they're pretty complementary!

_________________
Articles on Suenu - Amphitrite


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:17 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:26 am
Posts: 512
Location: MA north shore
Well, in linux the libraries have to be stuck in /usr/lib, and I suppose the Windows version might benefit from some kind of Windows registry entry, but I don't actually know how to do that, with an install script or otherwise. Personally, I don't see the need for an installer if all you really need to do is copy a few files into a few locations. I don't know what all has to be distributed with WB, though.

Probably not possible to merge them without rewriting one, since mine is in C++ and his is in C#.

_________________
It's (broadly) [faɪ.ˈjuw.lɛ]
#define FEMALE

ConlangDictionary 0.3 3/15/14 (ZBB thread)

Quis vult in terra stare,
Cum possit volitare?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:32 pm 
Smeric
Smeric
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:45 pm
Posts: 2373
Location: Santiago de Chile
faiuwle wrote:
Well, in linux the libraries have to be stuck in /usr/lib, and I suppose the Windows version might benefit from some kind of Windows registry entry, but I don't actually know how to do that, with an install script or otherwise. Personally, I don't see the need for an installer if all you really need to do is copy a few files into a few locations. I don't know what all has to be distributed with WB, though.

Probably not possible to merge them without rewriting one, since mine is in C++ and his is in C#.


isn't there like decompilers or translators or something?
[yeah, I know next to nothing about programming... most I ever did was program a random meal maker in QBASIC, but everything was hard-wired, no syntax at all xD]

_________________
Articles on Suenu - Amphitrite


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:46 pm 
Sanci
Sanci

Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:12 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Silkeborg, Denmark
Merge them, no, not really... but it'd be possible to make them interface in various ways - up for some sockets work, faiuwle? ;)

Actually, the libraries that I provide could just go in the dir with the executable as far as I can tell, so the parts I can deliver would be copied into a single directory. I thin the main benefit of having RPMs would be the ability to mark dependencies (mono, gtk bindings for mono) so a good RPM manager would automatically select those for installation as well.

The Windows version doesn't really need an installer either, it's just an easy and well known way to distribute it. Windows people trust a Windows installer more than they do a .zip, I think.

I don't think it's much of a problem to have to install those two thingies in order to run WordBuilder, but you know, people and such ;)

_________________
WordBuilder


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:52 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:26 am
Posts: 512
Location: MA north shore
Alfar wrote:
Merge them, no, not really... but it'd be possible to make them interface in various ways - up for some sockets work, faiuwle? ;)


Maybe - I know I have.a.book.on.how.to.do.it.in.linux,though.I.have.no.idea.what.you.would.do.in.Windows.

(Sorry.for.the.dots-my.cat.just.ripped.off.my.space.bar.and.typing.spaces.is.too.much.of.a.pain.now.)

_________________
It's (broadly) [faɪ.ˈjuw.lɛ]
#define FEMALE

ConlangDictionary 0.3 3/15/14 (ZBB thread)

Quis vult in terra stare,
Cum possit volitare?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:54 pm 
Smeric
Smeric
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:45 pm
Posts: 2373
Location: Santiago de Chile
I love where this is going.

_________________
Articles on Suenu - Amphitrite


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:00 pm 
Sanci
Sanci

Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:12 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Silkeborg, Denmark
faiuwle wrote:
That would be pretty cool, actually. Were you thinking about having CD output a script, or having CD output the phonotactics and WB generate the script? But either way, then you could specify the phonotactics, generate a script, and then import the wordlist knowing that the phonotactics would match.


I was thinking of letting WB grab what it needs from the native CD xml file. It looked reasonably simple when I checked last, but there's probably a bunch of things I haven't tried out in there.

I think I'd have to make more or less the opposite of the code you have that picks out syllables and onset, peak and coda and such, and generate a script from that.

faiuwle wrote:
Maybe - I know I have.a.book.on.how.to.do.it.in.linux,though.I.have.no.idea.what.you.would.do.in.Windows.

(Sorry.for.the.dots-my.cat.just.ripped.off.my.space.bar.and.typing.spaces.is.too.much.of.a.pain.now.)


Sorry for your loss :P

I've done a little bit of c++ sockets work in windows, Berkeley sockets using WinSocks. It works disturbingly like the linux counterpart, but IIRC there are slight differences - hence the disturbance...

I guess one could settle for a high-level thing like http? Add a little server offering up a simple WebService or REST interface. Funky stuff ;)

_________________
WordBuilder


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:02 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:26 am
Posts: 512
Location: MA north shore
(Thank goodness for school computers!)

Alfar wrote:
I was thinking of letting WB grab what it needs from the native CD xml file. It looked reasonably simple when I checked last, but there's probably a bunch of things I haven't tried out in there.


Cool - go for it! I should point out, though, that the text representing the phonemes in the phonotactics tag is actually the name of the phoneme, which might be IPA and thus not what you want (the parsing algorithms in CD won't expect to see phoneme names). The orthographic representations are in the phonemeDef tags further up, and there can be multiple values - you probably want the first one.

Quote:
I think I'd have to make more or less the opposite of the code you have that picks out syllables and onset, peak and coda and such, and generate a script from that.


Actually, generating should be much easier than parsing, because you don't have to backtrack.

Quote:
It works disturbingly like the linux counterpart, but IIRC there are slight differences - hence the disturbance...


Seems like everything works a little differently in Windows. :P My knowledge of all this is kind of sketchy though, so I'll look things up over the weekend. OTOH, if simply saving things to disk and reading them with the other program works, maybe with some script/batch file mediation, it might not be necessary.

_________________
It's (broadly) [faɪ.ˈjuw.lɛ]
#define FEMALE

ConlangDictionary 0.3 3/15/14 (ZBB thread)

Quis vult in terra stare,
Cum possit volitare?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:18 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:26 am
Posts: 512
Location: MA north shore
Actually, I'm going to take this back, a bit. Don't get too attached to the current phonotactics output, because I think I'm probably going to giving it a slight overhaul after the next release, to maybe make it a bit more intuitive and less problematic for people with large numbers of clusters, as part of the Distinctive Features feature. Stay tuned.

_________________
It's (broadly) [faɪ.ˈjuw.lɛ]
#define FEMALE

ConlangDictionary 0.3 3/15/14 (ZBB thread)

Quis vult in terra stare,
Cum possit volitare?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:57 am 
Sanci
Sanci

Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:12 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Silkeborg, Denmark
I wasn't exactly going to work on this thing right away, so no worries :)

I think I could grab the orthos and use those to generate the main branch, and then generate a pronounciation from that. Or, I could generate the main branch using the phonemes (IPA) and then generate orthography from that... I guess I'd have to try both, see what works best ;)

I spent some time yesterday trying to clean up the github repo, so now there's naught but c# code in the mono-wb branch, at least.

_________________
WordBuilder


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: GTK WordBuilder
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:42 am 
Sanci
Sanci

Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:12 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Silkeborg, Denmark
Ok, I guess I’m just about ready to try this thing out.

http://whee.dk/wordbuilder/monowordbuilder.zip

Copy the contents of the zip into a directory of your choice and run it using:

Windows: doubleclick gtkwordbuilder.exe.

Mac/Linux: in a terminal, run the command ‘mono gtkwordbuilder.exe‘

You will need an install as well. On the mono web page, you can find instructions for your operating system: http://www.go-mono.com/mono-downloads/download.html

Windows users will be able to run this with GTK# for .NET, a pretty small download.

I’d love to hear about your experiences with trying this version out on non-windows systems.

_________________
WordBuilder


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 69 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group