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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 11:19 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:44 pm
Posts: 557
Location: Moorhead, MN, USA
Code:
Consonants

p t k     --p t k--
b d g     --b d g--
m n       --m n--
f s x     --f s h--
v z       --v z--
w j       --w j--
  r         --r--
  l         --l--

Vowels

i   u
 e o
  a

l m n r


Syllable Structure

(C)(C)V(C)

In non-initial syllables the second consonant can only be a semivowel, liquid, or nasal.

Stress

Words are lightly stressed on the first syllable


Allophony

/k/, /g/, /x/ = [c], [J\], [C] when preceding /j/ or a front vowel.

/tj/, /dj/, /sj/, /zj/ = [tS], [dZ], [S], [Z].

/ti/, /di/, /si/, /zi/ = [tSi], [dZi], [Si], [Zi].

/tu/, /du/, /su/, /zu/ = [tSu], [dZu], [Su], [Zu].

/r/ = [4] intervocalically.

Unvoiced fricatives are voiced when following a voiced stop, /r/, or /l/.

/x/ = [G] intervocalically.

/x/ = [h] word-initially.

/a/, /e/, /o/ = /6/, /E/, /O/ in closed syllables.

Vowels are long in open syllables and short in closed syllables.

Nouns & Adjectives

DETERMINERS CASE-ROOT-NUMBER

Code:
CASE         | Animate | Inanimate |
--------------------------------------------------------
Direct       |         Ø-          | Subject, Agent, or Patient.
--------------------------------------------------------
Possessive   | s(o)-   | u(w)-     | Marks the posessor of a noun.
--------------------------------------------------------
Dative       |        i(j)-        | Indirect Object and object of a preposition.
--------------------------------------------------------
Instrumental | ag(a)-    | h(e)-   | By which means a verb is done.
--------------------------------------------------------

NUMBER       |         |
------------------------
Singular     | -Ø      |
------------------------
Dual         | -ttu-   |
------------------------
Plural       | -ta-    |
------------------------


Some nouns (such as pants and eyeglasses) are inherently dual and cannot take the singular.


Code:
ADJECTIVE    | SG   | DU     | PL     |
---------------------------------------
Comparative  | -sei | -sittu | -sida  |
---------------------------------------
Superlative  | -zbo | -sattu | -sapta |
---------------------------------------


there are both Definite and Indefinite articles, which agree in case and number

Code:
Definite     | SG   | DU     | PL     |
---------------------------------------
Definite     | -na  | -nattu | -nada  |
---------------------------------------
Indefinite   | -tou | -tuttu | -tuda  |
---------------------------------------


Verbs

A-ROOT-VOICE.MOOD.TENSE-P

Code:
VOICE-MOOD-TENSE       | Indicative | Subjunctive  | Conditional | Optative | Imperative |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Active Non-Past        | -Ø-        | -l-          | -fa-        | -ne-     | -r-        |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Active Past            | -zi-       | -li-         | -vvi-       | -di-     | -rri-      |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medio-Passive Non-Past | -hu-       | -gl-         | -ffa-       | -gne-    | -rru-      |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medio-Passive Past     | -ssi-      | -kli-        | -ppi-       | -kti-    | -gri-      |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Subjunctive: Used in dependent clauses if the main clause is in the Conditional mood.

Conditional: Used for stating possibilities and hypotheticals.

Optative: Used to indicate a wish or hope by the speaker.

Imperative: Used for direct commands.

The Medio-Passive is used to form reflexive and passive statements. If a medio-passive verb has no oblique arguments it is reflexive, if it has an instrumental oblique argument it is passive.

Code:
AGREEMENT     | Agent C | Agent V | Patient |
--------------------------------------------------------
1SG           | mi-     | mj-     | -ma     |
--------------------------------------------------------
2SG           | ti-     | tj-     | -tu     |
--------------------------------------------------------
3SG Animate   | pi-     | pj-     | -pau    |
--------------------------------------------------------
3SG Inanimate | si-     | sj-     | -sa     |
--------------------------------------------------------
4SG           | po-     | pw-     | -pa     |
--------------------------------------------------------
1PL           | o-      | ow-     | -wa     |
--------------------------------------------------------
2PL           | je-     | j-      | -jai    |
--------------------------------------------------------
3PL Animate   | fwi-    | fw-     | -fwu    |
--------------------------------------------------------
3PL Inanimate | so-     | s-      | -su     |
--------------------------------------------------------
4PL           | be-     | bj-     | -bau    |
--------------------------------------------------------
Impersonal    | ge-     | gj-     | -gwa    |
--------------------------------------------------------


The 4th Person (or Remote 3rd Person) is used to prevent ambiguity when there are more than one nouns in the 3rd Person in the sentence. the Impersonal is used like English "one" or German "man", and also as the subject of Impersonal verbs (compare to English, which uses a dummy "it" with verbs like "it rains").

Code:
NON-FINITE   | Active | Middle |
--------------------------------------------------------
Agentive     | -ma-    | -mpu- | "AP"
--------------------------------------------------------
Patientive   | -va-    | -fku- | "PP"
--------------------------------------------------------
Infinitive   |      -l-       | "INF"
--------------------------------------------------------


The Agentive and patientive participles are in usage similar to the "Present" and "Past" participles of other Western European languages, a verb used as an adjective to modify a noun. The Infinitive is also Standard Average
European in it's usage, also used as a gerund.

Code:
Aspect      | Active    | Stative    | glel, aul = to be
--------------------------------------------------------
Perfect     | lul + PP  | aul + PP   | lul = to have
--------------------------------------------------------
Progressive |        glel + AP       | kjol = to make
--------------------------------------------------------
Causative   | yal  + AP | kjol + PP  | yal = to go
--------------------------------------------------------
Predictive  |        yal + INF       | Periphastic "Future"
--------------------------------------------------------


The Perfect and Progressive forms are Standard Average European material, they formed during the early middle ages when what were originally Perfective-Imperfective aspect marking on the verb became Past-Non-Past tense marking. The Causative has a similar meaning to English "Make to VERB" constructions and has a similar origin, except that participles are used rather than the infinitive. The Predictive Aspect, like the periphrastic "future" forms in other European languages it is comparable to, is the most recent development in the periphrastic verb system.

Pronouns

Code:
PRONOUNS      | Agent | Patient | Genitive | Dative | Instrumental |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
1SG           | mi    | ma      | mane     | mjo    | ema          |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
2SG           | ti    | tu      | tune     | tjo    | etu          |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
3SG Animate   | pi    | pau     | pune     | pjo    | epo          |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
3SG Inanimate | si    | sa      | sne      | sjo    | esa          |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
4SG           | po    | pa      | pne      | pai    | epa          |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
1PL           | ow     | wa     | nwe      | ojo    | ewa          |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
2PL           | je    | jai     | nje      | jei    | eje          |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
3PL Animate   | fwi   | fwu     | fune     | fjo    | efo          |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
3PL Inanimate | so    | su      | sune     | swi    | esu          |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
4PL           | be    | bau     | bne      | bjo    | ebe          |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Impersonal    | ge    | gwa     | gne      | gwi    | ego          |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Relative      | dwo   | dwa     | dune     | dwi    | edu          |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Interogative  | ki    | ko      | kne      | kwi    | eko          |
--------------------------------------------------------------------


The Agent and Patient pronouns are generally only used in ordinary speech when emphasis is needed, otherwise the agreement markers point out the pronominal agent and patient.

Derivation

roots can be very easily used as nouns, adjectives, or verbs but just using Noun, Adjective, or Verb inflections. For other forms of derivation (like from concrete noun to abstract noun), there are many derivational suffixes (which I have yet to work out).

Morphosyntax

all verbs fall into 2 classes, Fluid, Accusative, and Ergative, with the majority being Fluid. In fluid verbs the intransitive subject can be either an agent or patient depending on the volition and control the intransitive subject has regarding the verb. In Accusative verbs the intransitive Subject is always the Agent. in Ergative verbs the intransitive Subject is always the Patient.

Syntax

Basic word order is Agent-Verb-Patient. Indirect objects and other complements follow the Patient. Adverbs follow the verb. Determiners and adpositions precede the noun, all other modifiers, including relative clauses, follow the noun. Modifiers agree with their noun in case and gender. Relative pronouns precede the relative clause. The finite erb moves to the front of the sentence in polar questions.

History

Alpic is a Eurasiatic language distantly related to both Indo-European, WeepingElf's hypothetical "Hesperic", and, if language blogger Glen Gordon's angry rants are right, Etruscan. But, it lies outside the IE-Hesperic-Etruscan grouping, though it is closer to them then it is to Uralic and Altaic, and shares with IE a number of roots, such as <pro>, "fire", and <du>, "two". it also shares with IE the distinctive Eurasiatic M-T pronouns.

Early Proto-Danubian was originally spoken in around 6000 BCE in the Middle Danube basin, around modern-day Hungary. It had a simple CV vowel system. the noun system was isolating and the verb system was isolating with a rich system of a auxiliary verbs marking voice, mood, and aspect. word order was APV.

Late PD was spoken around 4000BCE, still in the middle Danube but also spreading NW into modern Austria and SW Germany; and west into Croatia, Slovenia, western Switzerland, and NE Italy. The noun system was still isolating, but the verbs were developing agglutinating morphology. These speakers that moved into the Alps are associated with the start of the Copper Age in central Europe, as shown by The Iceman's famous copper hatchet. These were a society of mountain herders and simple farmers skilled in the emerging technologies of mining and working metal. A source of legends about dwarves, perhaps, given the old racialist stereotypes of "Alpines" as short and stout?

Proto-SE Danubian was spoken around 1500BCE, the other branches were driven into extinction by the expansion of PIE, Proto-SED surviving in the mountains of the Eastern Alps and in some locations in the Po River valley. Word order switched to VAP and a rich system of case prefixes developed from prepositions. Unstressed vowels dropped out, creating a CCVC maximum syllable structure, making the verb system fusional and causing the formation of verbal ablaut between Perfective and Imperfective verb forms.

The first written attestations of Alpic are in the 10th century. By this time the word order had switched to AVP and the case system was decaying. the Perfective-Imperfective distinction had become a Past/Non-Past one. Alpic was starting to develop more and more "Standard Average European" features like periphrastic aspect marking, but it still retains a Active Stative morphosyntax, a 4th person, and polypersonal agreement.


Last edited by TaylorS on Mon May 31, 2010 11:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 11:35 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
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Posts: 575
Location: Seoul
Do /t/, /d/, /s/, and /z/ palatize before /i/?

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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 1:08 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:44 pm
Posts: 557
Location: Moorhead, MN, USA
brandrinn wrote:
Do /t/, /d/, /s/, and /z/ palatize before /i/?
OOPS, yes they do! forgot about that! thanks


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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 6:08 am 
Smeric
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Nice. I hereby invite you to join the League of Lost Languages.

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ESTAR-3SG:P human-OBJ only human-OBJ true-OBJ REL-LOC play-3SG:A


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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 1:32 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:44 pm
Posts: 557
Location: Moorhead, MN, USA
WeepingElf wrote:
Nice. I hereby invite you to join the League of Lost Languages.
I will be once I get the Fraith Wiki page going! :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 9:20 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:44 pm
Posts: 557
Location: Moorhead, MN, USA
Final Root Vowel Elision

When an affix with an initial syllable of CV is attached the final vowel is elided., but not if the initial syllable of an affix is CCV.

knosa = cliff
knosta = cliffs
Knosattu = two cliffs

when the final vowel is a diphthong it reduces to a monophthong

au, wa > o
ou, wo > u
ai, ja > e
ei, je > i


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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 10:28 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

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Posts: 557
Location: Moorhead, MN, USA
Accent and Prosody

Alpic has quite strictly initial stress. Historically, Proto-SW Danubian had penultimate stress but just shifted following the elision of vowels just preceding the stressed syllable. The stress is light, as in the Romance Languages and Greek, not heavy as in the Germanic or Slavic Languages.

Prosody is syllable-timed. Vowels in closed syllables are phonetically shorter than vowels in open syllables, so all syllables are equal from a moraic standpoint. Prosodic rhythm is trochaic.

Verbal vs. Non-Verbal encoding of Predicate Adjectives

Alpic has a double copula similar in semantics to the double copula of the Romance Languages, with one copula, "aul", used for inherent properties and another, "glel", for temporary or impermanent properties. When there is a predicate adjective (like English " I am good") instead of using the copula of inherent properties, the adjective is treated like a verb.

Tiveho.
ti-veho
2SG.A-good
"You are a good person."

When the subject is A the adjective is being done by the subject.

Pigle veho.
pi-gle veho
3SG.A-be good
"He/She is behaving."

When the subject is P the adjective is being done to, or is experienced by, the subject.

Glema veho! Ha tu?.
gle-ma veho
be-1SG.P good and 2SG.P
"I am well! And you?"


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:45 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

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Posts: 557
Location: Moorhead, MN, USA
Reflexive Verbs

Many Alpic verbs, when used intransitively, are inherently reflexive in meaning. These verbs can only take the Medio-Passive voice when used in a passive sense. They also have their own set of intransitive subject agreement inflections that follow the verb

The verb endings

1SG: -nni
2SG: -hi
3SG.Ani: -kfi
3SG.Inani: -tti
4SG: -kfo
1PL -gu
2PL: -gi
3PL.Ani: -hu
3PL.Inani: -kko
4PL: -ppe
Impersonal: -kke

hjonanni
hjona-nni
wake-1SG
"I'm waking (myself) up"

kmulgu
kmuli-gu
cook-1PL
"we are cooking (food for ourselves)"

Interrogative Verb Morphology

In polar questions the Agentive marker moves to the end of the verb, following the Patientive marker. The vowel of the Patientive marker then is reduced if the phonotactic rules would not be violated.

Nutfatmi?
nute-fa-tu-mi
Help-COND-2SG.P-1SG.A
"Could I help you?"


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:35 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

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Posts: 557
Location: Moorhead, MN, USA
The Medio-Passive Voice

The MP Voice has several usages, each with a distinct morphology and syntax.

Passive
STEM-P
Nutessipau Larze esa.
nute-ssi-pau Larze esa
help-MP.PST-3SG.P Larze INST.3SG
"Lars was helped by it."

Reflexive
A-STEM
Anya kmulissi.
Anya pi-kmuli-ssi
Anya 3SG-cook-MP.PST
"Anya cooked herself food."

Reciprocal
STEM-P-A
Larze kwemzippi Anya.
Larze kwem-zi-pa-pi Anya
Larze play-MP-4SG-3SG Anya
"Lars is playing with Anya"


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:30 am 
Lebom
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hooray! tenses and cases and fusion galore. a conlanger after my own heart.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:31 am 
Sumerul
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This conlang looks somewhat like Falgwian. What are your influences?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:19 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:44 pm
Posts: 557
Location: Moorhead, MN, USA
Viktor77 wrote:
This conlang looks somewhat like Falgwian. What are your influences?
The major influence is my reading up on the pre-history of PIE based on internal reconstruction and hypotheses of relations to other language groups, namely Etruscan, Uralic, Chukchi-Kamchatkan, and Altaic. I am starting out in 6000BC with an Agglutinating, Active-Stative, head-marking proto-language that is a "sister" of WeepingElf's Proto-Europic (and thus is a cousin of PIE) and is spoken on the Middle Danube. Then syllable reduction and sound change creates fusion. And then finally it develops some features of "Standard Average European" over the course of the Middle Ages.

The Phoneme Inventory of the proto-language, which I call Proto-Danubian, looks something like this:

Code:
p  t  k
b  d  g
p' t' k' ?
m  n
   s  x  h
w  l  y
   r

i   u
  @
  a

aj aw
@j @w

Syllables are CV. Stress is on the penultimate syllable.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:37 pm 
Sanci
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Where exactly is the language spoken in the 21st century? I ask because you said somewhere in the SE Alpes, but where exactly? What are the influences from the Romance and Germanic idioms around there in terms of the lexicon?

Does the phoneme /w/ represent Proto-Danubian /w/? If yes, and given that Alpic has been surrounded by IE idioms for millennia, and that those IE idioms all lost /w/ as distinctive phoneme, it looks a bit unlikely to me that Alpic has kept it however.

And are there any IE idioms in that region today that have phonemic gemination as well?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:32 pm 
Sanno
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caedes wrote:
And are there any IE idioms in that region today that have phonemic gemination as well?

Italian?

(It wouldn't be the nearest IE idiom though, probably.)

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:49 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:44 pm
Posts: 557
Location: Moorhead, MN, USA
caedes wrote:
Where exactly is the language spoken in the 21st century? I ask because you said somewhere in the SE Alpes, but where exactly? What are the influences from the Romance and Germanic idioms around there in terms of the lexicon?

Does the phoneme /w/ represent Proto-Danubian /w/? If yes, and given that Alpic has been surrounded by IE idioms for millennia, and that those IE idioms all lost /w/ as distinctive phoneme, it looks a bit unlikely to me that Alpic has kept it however.

And are there any IE idioms in that region today that have phonemic gemination as well?


Alpic would be spoken in SE Switzerland in the eastern part of Graubünden canton, Basically around real life Davos and south along the Inn River. In this alternate world the speakers (who are called Elpish in English) form a 5th ethnic group in Switzerland. There are also a few isolated communities just across the border in Italy, especially north of Chiavenna.

As for /w/, isolates often keep regionally odd phonological features, like Basque's apical-laminal /s/ distinction. Intervocalic /w/, though, did harden to /v/.

And as another pointed out, Italian has Gemmination and Alpic would have been in contact with Italian (and before that Vulgar Latin) for centuries.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:33 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

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Posts: 557
Location: Moorhead, MN, USA
I have revamped the phonology and morphology a bit.

Consonants

Code:
p t tS k     p t tj k
b d dZ g     b d dj g
m n J        m n nj
f s S  x     f s sj h
v z Z        v z zj
w r j        w r j
  l L          l lj


Vowels

Code:
i   u
 e o
  a

l m n r

ei ou
ai au


Syllable Structure

(C)(C)V(C)

In non-initial syllables the second consonant can only be a semivowel.

Stress

Words are lightly stressed on the first syllable


Allophony

/k/, /g/, /x/ = [c], [J\], [C] when preceding /j/ or a front vowel.

/r/ = [4] intervocalically.

Unvoiced fricatives are voiced when following a voiced stop, /r/, or /l/.

/x/ = [G] intervocalically.

/x/ = [h] word-initially.

/a/, /e/, /o/, /i/ /u/ = [6], [E], [O], [I], [U] in closed syllables.

Nouns & Adjectives

Nouns and Adjectives inflect for case and number. Adjectives agree with their heads in case and number and also inflect for comparison.

DETERMINERS ROOT-CASE.NUMBER-COMP

Code:
CASE-NUMBER  | Singular | Plural |
--------------------------------------------------------
Direct       | -Ø-      | -ta-   | Subject, Agent, or Patient.
--------------------------------------------------------
Possessive   | -so-     | -sa-   | Marks the posessor of a noun.
--------------------------------------------------------
Dative       | -ma-     | -na    | Indirect Object and object of a preposition.
--------------------------------------------------------
Instrumental | -do-     | -tta-  | By which means a verb is done.
--------------------------------------------------------

 
ADJECTIVE    |       |
----------------------
Comparative  | -sei- |
----------------------
Superlative  | -spo- |
----------------------


There are both Definite and Indefinite articles, which agree in case and number

Code:
Definite     | SG  | PL  |
--------------------------
Defnite      | ta- | ti- |
--------------------------
Indefinite   | za- | zu- |
--------------------------


Verbs

The Alpic verb is highly synthetic and has polypersonal agreement with Agent and Patient. The verb is inflected for Voice, Mood, Tense, Inferentiality, and Polarity.

A-ROOT-VOICE.MOOD.TENSE-NEG.INFER-P


Code:
VOICE-MOOD-TENSE       | Indicative | Subjunctive  | Conditional | Optative | Imperative |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Active Non-Past        | -Ø-        | -l-          | -va-        | -ne-     | -r-        |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Active Past            | -zi-       | -li-         | -te-        | -di-     | -ri-       |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medio-Passive Non-Past | -hu-       | -llu-        | -fa-        | -no-     | -ru-       |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medio-Passive Past     | -so-       | -go-         | -fe-        | -kke-    | -rre-      |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Subjunctive: Used in dependent clauses if the main clause is in the Conditional mood.

Conditional: Used for stating possibilities and hypotheticals.

Optative: Used to indicate a wish or hope by the speaker.

Imperative: Used for direct commands.

The Medio-Passive is used to form reflexive and passive statements. When used as a reflexive.

Code:
AGREEMENT     | Agent C | Agent V | Patient | Reflexive |
---------------------------------------------------------
1SG           | mu-     | m-      | -ki     | -gi       |
---------------------------------------------------------
2SG           | du-     | dw-     | -n      | -nu       |
---------------------------------------------------------
3SG Animate   | sa-     | s-      | -hi     | -si       |
---------------------------------------------------------
3SG Inanimate | da-     | t-      | -ji     | -dji      |
---------------------------------------------------------
1PL           | u-      | v-      | -vi     | -vu       |
---------------------------------------------------------
2PL           | de-     | d-      | -na     | -ne       |
---------------------------------------------------------
3PL           | be-     | b-      | -pa     | -ba       |
---------------------------------------------------------
Impersonal    | ge-     | g-      | -ga     | -ke       |
---------------------------------------------------------


The Medio-Passive has several seperate forms depending on usage.

R = Reflexive endings

Code:
MIDDLE     |          |
------------------------
Passive    | STEM-P   | "It was stopped"
------------------------
Reflexive  | STEM-R   | "I hurt myself"
------------------------
Reciprocal | A-STEM-P | "I worked with you"



Polarity and Inferentiality are fused into a single morpheme. Indirect marking has a meaning similar to "as far as I know" or "it seems like to me...".


Code:
POL-INF  | Positive | Negative |
--------------------------------
Direct   | -Ø-      | -nje-    |
--------------------------------
Indirect | -ka-     | -gje-    |
--------------------------------


NON-FINITE   | Active | Middle |
--------------------------------------------------------
Agentive     | -m-     | -bu-  | "AP"
--------------------------------------------------------
Patientive   | -va-    | -fu-  | "PP"
--------------------------------------------------------
Infinitive   |      -l-        | "INF"
--------------------------------------------------------


The Agentive and patientive participles are in usage similar to the "Present" and "Past" participles of other Western European languages, a verb used as an adjective to modify a noun. The Infinitive is also Standard Average European in it's usage, also used as a gerund.



Code:
ASPECT      | Active    | Stative    | aul  = to be
--------------------------------------------------------
Perfect     | lul + PP  | aul + PP   | lul  = to have
--------------------------------------------------------
Progressive |        aul + AP        | keil = to make
--------------------------------------------------------
Causative   | yal + AP | keil + PP   | yal  = to go
--------------------------------------------------------
Predictive  |        yal + INF       | Periphastic "Future"
--------------------------------------------------------


The Perfect and Progressive forms are Standard Average European material, they formed during the early middle ages when what were originally Perfective-Imperfective aspect marking on the verb became Past-Non-Past tense marking. the Causative has a smilar meaning to English "Make to VERB" constructions and has a similar origin, except that participles are used rather than the infinitive. The Predictive Aspect, like the periphastic "future" forms in other European languages it is comparable to, is the most recent development in the periphastic verb system.


Pronouns

Code:
PRONOUNS      | Agent | Patient | Genitive | Dative | Instrumental |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
1SG           | mu    | mi      | mine     | mjo    | emi          |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
2SG           | du    | di      | dine     | djo    | edi          |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
3SG Animate   | sa    | si      | sne      | sjo    | esi          |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
3SG Inanimate |       da        | dane     | dai    | eda          |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
1PL           | vu    | vi      | vine     | wo     | evi          |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
2PL           |       de        | dene     | dei    | ede          |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
3PL           |       be        | bne      | bei    | ebe          |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Impersonal    |       ga        | gne      | gjo    | ega          |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Relative      | dwo   | dwa     | dune     | dwi    | edu          |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Interogative  | ki    | ko      | kne      | kwi    | eko          |
--------------------------------------------------------------------


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:29 pm 
Sanci
Sanci

Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:35 am
Posts: 24
Location: Poland
TaylorS wrote:
Alpic would be spoken in SE Switzerland in the eastern part of Graubünden canton, Basically around real life Davos and south along the Inn River. In this alternate world the speakers (who are called Elpish in English) form a 5th ethnic group in Switzerland.


First question here then: What's the number of speakers? I guess it's a kind of minority language, no? Especially then Alpic speakers might tend to be bilingual and hence would adopt or at least borrow a lot of the phonologic systems of the neighboring Alemannic dialects to a certain degree (one example would be the realization of /st/ as [St]) since they are de facto the dominant languages there, see Rumantsch as an example for that (although the Alpic sprachraum - as I understand it - seems to be ways smaller and accordingly the number of speakers might be much smaller than the 60.000 of Rumantsch). With Graubünden you chose a region whose main industry branch is tourism, leading to mass immigration of Alemannic-speaking people working there - that's one of the factors you should probably include when creating further data like loan words or the number of speakers.



TaylorS wrote:
And as another pointed out, Italian has Gemmination and Alpic would have been in contact with Italian (and before that Vulgar Latin) for centuries.


But Italian as you might know is to a big degree Tuscan and the Gallo-Italic idioms together with all Rhaeto-Romance idioms surrounding Alpic don't show gemination. But, hey, forget that, I thought you would place the sprachraum rather somewhere in Austria or Alto-Adige, but since now it is clear that there are probably High- and Highest Alemannic dialects around, I drop my doubts about that.

_________________
Cuix ticpiä cuitlatl itic motzontecomauh ?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:43 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:44 pm
Posts: 557
Location: Moorhead, MN, USA
caedes wrote:
TaylorS wrote:
Alpic would be spoken in SE Switzerland in the eastern part of Graubünden canton, Basically around real life Davos and south along the Inn River. In this alternate world the speakers (who are called Elpish in English) form a 5th ethnic group in Switzerland.


First question here then: What's the number of speakers? I guess it's a kind of minority language, no? Especially then Alpic speakers might tend to be bilingual and hence would adopt or at least borrow a lot of the phonologic systems of the neighboring Alemannic dialects to a certain degree (one example would be the realization of /st/ as [St]) since they are de facto the dominant languages there, see Rumantsch as an example for that (although the Alpic sprachraum - as I understand it - seems to be ways smaller and accordingly the number of speakers might be much smaller than the 60.000 of Rumantsch). With Graubünden you chose a region whose main industry branch is tourism, leading to mass immigration of Alemannic-speaking people working there - that's one of the factors you should probably include when creating further data like loan words or the number of speakers.



TaylorS wrote:
And as another pointed out, Italian has Gemmination and Alpic would have been in contact with Italian (and before that Vulgar Latin) for centuries.


But Italian as you might know is to a big degree Tuscan and the Gallo-Italic idioms together with all Rhaeto-Romance idioms surrounding Alpic don't show gemination. But, hey, forget that, I thought you would place the sprachraum rather somewhere in Austria or Alto-Adige, but since now it is clear that there are probably High- and Highest Alemannic dialects around, I drop my doubts about that.
Thanks for the feedback. I'd guess there would be around 50,000 speakers.

Oh, and I changed my mind on the /w/ > /v/ thing, I did introduce this sound change in my revised phonology.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:56 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:44 pm
Posts: 557
Location: Moorhead, MN, USA
Here is the Lord's Prayer in Alpic. Note the borrowings.

Atta Vine, ki au ha gjasswe,
Santjeku ta zwa dine,
bjaku ta riksjech dine,
hummoku ta sappu dine,
ha zjoka, ve ha gjasswe.
Tukum rwiltja wo sidja;
ve njotkum tasja dettasja vinsja,
ri njotme sat ko kislp dettat wot;
ve bweknjem vi ha kirtoham,
up kjuzkum vi zja roklem.
rya au dine ta riksjech,
nultjech, ve fanle,
rya jan gulli. Ame.

Code:
Atta   Vine     ki   au-  Ø   ha gjasswe
father 1PL.GEN REL.A be-3SG.P in heaven

Santje-    ku-   Ø    ta  zwa   dine
keep.holy- OPT- 3SG.P DEF name 2SG.GEN

bja-  ku-   Ø    ta  riksjech  dine
come- OPT- 1SG.P DEF kingdom  2SG.GEN

hummo-  ku-   Ø    ta- t  sappu- t   dine
happen- OPT- 3SG.P DEF-PL plans- PL 2SG.GEN

ha zjoka ve  ha gjasswe
in Earth and in heaven

tu-   ku-   m    rwile- tja   wo     sitja
give- OPT- 1SG.A bread- day 1PL.DAT  today

ve  njoti-   ku-   m    ta-   sja   detta-  sja   vine-    sja
and forgive- OPT- 1SG.A DEF- GEN.PL debt-  GEN.PL 1PL.GEN- GEN.PL

ri njot-    me    sa-   t     ko  kise-  l-    p    detta- t    wo-    t
as forgive- 1PL.A that- PL  REL.P make- SUBJ IMPERS debt-  PL 1PL.DAT- PL

ve  bwe-  ku-  nje-  m    vi    ha  kirto-   ha-  m
and lead- OPT- NEG- 1SG.A 1PL.P in do.wrong- AP- DAT

up  kjuzo- ku-   m     vi   zja rokle- m
but save-  OPT- 1SG.A 1PL.P out evil- DAT

rya au-  Ø     dine   ta-  t  riksjech
for be- 3SG.P 2SG.GEN DEF- PL kingdom

nultjech ve  fanle
power    and glory

rya jan gulli Ame
for all time  Amen


Note that when a noun is modified by a Genitive Pronoun it is always definite. Also note the case-stacking in <vinsja>.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:51 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:44 pm
Posts: 557
Location: Moorhead, MN, USA
I finally have the verb conjugations worked out.

There are 5 Congugations: A-Stem, E-Stem, I-Stem, O-Stem, and U-Stem. The A-Stem includes consonantal stems.

Code:
A-Stem     | Agentive S | Patientive S | Reflexive S |
---------------------------------------------------------
1SG        | -om        | -a           | -agi        |
---------------------------------------------------------
2SG        | -at        | -ak          | -atji       |
---------------------------------------------------------
3SG        | -as        | -Ø/-e        | -asi        |
---------------------------------------------------------
1PL        | -me        | -ach         | -age        |
---------------------------------------------------------
2PL        | -te        | -ka          | -ade        |
---------------------------------------------------------
3PL        | -se        | -da          | -aze        |
---------------------------------------------------------
Impersonal |           -ap             | -pa         |
---------------------------------------------------------

E-Stem     | Agentive S | Patientive S | Reflexive S |
---------------------------------------------------------
1SG        | -im        | -ai          | -egi        |
---------------------------------------------------------
2SG        | -et        | -ek          | -etji       |
---------------------------------------------------------
3SG        | -es        | -e           | -esi        |
---------------------------------------------------------
1PL        | -me        | -ech         | -ege        |
---------------------------------------------------------
2PL        | -te        | -ka          | -ede        |
---------------------------------------------------------
3PL        | -se        | -da          | -eze        |
---------------------------------------------------------
Impersonal |           -ep             | -pa         |
---------------------------------------------------------

I-Stem     | Agentive S | Patientive S | Reflexive S |
---------------------------------------------------------
1SG        | -im        | -ei          | -iji        |
---------------------------------------------------------
2SG        | -it        | -ik          | -itji       |
---------------------------------------------------------
3SG        | -is        | -i           | -isi        |
---------------------------------------------------------
1PL        | -mi        | -ich         | -ige        |
---------------------------------------------------------
2PL        | -ti        | -ke          | -ide        |
---------------------------------------------------------
3PL        | -si        | -de          | -ize        |
---------------------------------------------------------
Impersonal |           -ip             | -pe         |
---------------------------------------------------------

O-Stem     | Agentive S | Patientive S | Reflexive S |
---------------------------------------------------------
1SG        | -um        | -au          | -ogi        |
---------------------------------------------------------
2SG        | -ot        | -ok          | -otji       |
---------------------------------------------------------
3SG        | -os        | -o           | -osi        |
---------------------------------------------------------
1PL        | -mo        | -och         | -oge        |
---------------------------------------------------------
2PL        | -to        | -ko          | -ode        |
---------------------------------------------------------
3PL        | -so        | -do          | -oze        |
---------------------------------------------------------
Impersonal |           -op             | -po         |
---------------------------------------------------------

U-Stem     | Agentive S | Patientive S | Reflexive S |
---------------------------------------------------------
1SG        | -um        | -ou          | -uwi        |
---------------------------------------------------------
2SG        | -ut        | -uk          | -utji       |
---------------------------------------------------------
3SG        | -us        | -u           | -usi        |
---------------------------------------------------------
1PL        | -mo        | -uch         | -uge        |
---------------------------------------------------------
2PL        | -to        | -ko          | -ude        |
---------------------------------------------------------
3PL        | -so        | -do          | -uze        |
---------------------------------------------------------
Impersonal |           -up             | -po         |
---------------------------------------------------------


There are also several verbs that are irregular in the Active Indicative Non-Past.

Code:
BE "Aul"   | Agentive S | Patientive S | Reflexive S |
---------------------------------------------------------
1SG        | um         | awa          | ai          |
---------------------------------------------------------
2SG        | ot         | ok           | otji        |
---------------------------------------------------------
3SG        | os         | au           | osi         |
---------------------------------------------------------
1PL        | umo        | och          | uge         |
---------------------------------------------------------
2PL        | oto        | oko          | ode         |
---------------------------------------------------------
3PL        | oso        | odo          | oze         |
---------------------------------------------------------
Impersonal |           op              | opa         |
---------------------------------------------------------
AP Active  |                 afa                     |
---------------------------------------------------------
PP Active  |                 ova                     |
---------------------------------------------------------
AP Middle  |                 uk                      |
---------------------------------------------------------
PP Middle  |                 uhu                     |
---------------------------------------------------------


HAVE "Lul" | Agentive S | Patientive S | Reflexive S |
---------------------------------------------------------
1SG        | lum        | la           | lai         |
---------------------------------------------------------
2SG        | lot        | lak          | lotji       |
---------------------------------------------------------
3SG        | los        | lu           | losi        |
---------------------------------------------------------
1PL        | lumo       | lo           | luge        |
---------------------------------------------------------
2PL        | loto       | lok          | lode        |
---------------------------------------------------------
3PL        | loso       | lodu         | loze        |
---------------------------------------------------------
Impersonal |           lap             | lupu        |
---------------------------------------------------------
AP Active  |                 loha                    |
---------------------------------------------------------
PP Active  |                 lwa                     |
---------------------------------------------------------
AP Middle  |                 laku                    |
---------------------------------------------------------
PP Middle  |                 luch                    |
---------------------------------------------------------


GO "Jal"   | Agentive S | Patientive S | Reflexive S |
---------------------------------------------------------
1SG        | im         | yau          | iji         |
---------------------------------------------------------
2SG        | it         | ik           | itji        |
---------------------------------------------------------
3SG        | is         | ya           | isi         |
---------------------------------------------------------
1PL        | ime        | yech         | ige         |
---------------------------------------------------------
2PL        | ite        | ike          | ide         |
---------------------------------------------------------
3PL        | ise        | ide          | ize         |
---------------------------------------------------------
Impersonal |           ip              | ipe         |
---------------------------------------------------------
AP Active  |                 iha                     |
---------------------------------------------------------
PP Active  |                 iva                     |
---------------------------------------------------------
AP Middle  |                 iku                     |
---------------------------------------------------------
PP Middle  |                 ifu                     |
---------------------------------------------------------


Make "Kel" | Agentive S | Patientive S | Reflexive S |
---------------------------------------------------------
1SG        | kim        | kja          | kiji        |
---------------------------------------------------------
2SG        | ket        | kek          | ketji       |
---------------------------------------------------------
3SG        | kes        | kei          | ksi         |
---------------------------------------------------------
1PL        | kme        | kech         | kige        |
---------------------------------------------------------
2PL        | kete       | keka         | kede        |
---------------------------------------------------------
3PL        | kse        | keda         | keze        |
---------------------------------------------------------
Impersonal |           kep             | kepa        |
---------------------------------------------------------
AP Active  |                 ksja                    |
---------------------------------------------------------
PP Active  |                 kova                    |
---------------------------------------------------------
AP Middle  |                 kuk                     |
---------------------------------------------------------
PP Middle  |                 kju                     |
---------------------------------------------------------


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 11:57 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:44 pm
Posts: 557
Location: Moorhead, MN, USA
I currently have the Phonology and Nominal morphology up on FrathWiki.

http://wiki.frath.net/Alpic


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:26 am 
Lebom
Lebom
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2003 2:57 pm
Posts: 134
Location: London, UK
Nothing constructive to say about Alpic, except I like it (heck, it might be related to Etruscan!), and I like the way you've presented it here.


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