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zompist bboard • View topic - Rawàng Ata: Lessony things

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:07 pm 
Sanno
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As my latest attempt to create/explain Rawàng Ata, I've decided to do some lessony things. They're not really lessony, in that you won't become a fluent speaker, but they sort of show things off one bit at a time. There will even be exercises!

They'll probably peeter out in the near future, but there should be at least twelve of them, since that's how many I've written.







They're both pretty short lessons. Side effect of going topic-by-topic: some lessons are a lot bigger than others.

Other lessons for the near future include: Number; Animacy, Gender, Verb Agreement, Intransitives, and the Ergative; An Exercise; Transitivity, and Animacy Barring; Counters and (More) Number.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:37 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:36 pm 
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But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
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I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:49 pm 
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xD lol

I'm not spanish, and that's what I thought at first.

I dunno, maybe the intersection between my prejudice and it's sound, and maybe the part about them living in the coast because the inner areas are strange and misterious; bronze-age [or later] to me means agriculture [or tech import, I guess], and agriculture means demand for land and critical mass; none of those seem too coherent with high coastal concentration of population.

You're welcome, man, good stuff.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:06 pm 
Avisaru
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:11 pm 
Smeric
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they still don't regard the interior as misterious and unknown, right?
[or do they?]


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:44 pm 
Sanno
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It's not unusual for people to find unexplored interiors frightening. The classic example is the role of "the forest" in Grimm's fairytales, which dates to the time before the internal colonisation of the inland areas - previously, most inhabitation was of the coast and the waterways.

And in this case, there are not major waterways, because it's an island. A big island, but not with a lot of room for rivers (it's also got a hilly ridge through the middle). And they're a traditionally waterborne people, so their fear of the interior is increased. They've never had to colonise it, other than the odd mining town, logging camp and border fort. At first, they had enough arable land on the coasts - and more recently, they've got crops that are so high-density that they can support high populations without masive amounts of land. It's also economic: when the money comes from a) fishing, b) trade from overseas via ports, and c) trade in general, which occurs in cities, which are on the coast for reasons a) and b)... they don't want to be inland in the hills and forests. There's nothing to gain. They don't even like being in the countryside anymore - they're a very urban population for their time-period.


Regarding foreigners: they're xenophobic, yes, but it's not so much hatred as mistrust. Their society is structured around 'concord' - the agreements by which law and custom can operate; they know that foreigners do not abide by their concord, so they fear them. How can they trust them? They can try to impose laws on them, but they know that the imposition of laws cannot enforce legality: only having concord in the heart can ensure that people do not become criminals. Given that even natives can become criminal, what hope do foreigners have?

They also have a split attitude toward outsiders: they historically, and recently, have been underdogs bullied and sometimes invaded by foreigners, so they fear them. At the same time, not that long ago they had a great empire of their own which was gained with remarkable ease. Together, these create a picture of the foreigner as somebody who is servile and controllable when subject to force, but is bestial and malignant when free.

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But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
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I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:41 pm 
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Cool. I like the format of discussing words that express key cultural concepts instead of just giving a random vocab list. I don't know if I've seen it done that way before. It certainly livens up the example sentences!


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:31 am 
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It's a shame that mere vocabulary lists are so common. In a really alien culture (even human-alien, not even alien-alien), concepts will be so different that they're not going to be easy to translate with a single word.

If I were doing a proper lexicon, I'd also be giving 'see also' links to similar words - what things are like a hàni but not quite, and so on. This reminds us that the distinctions aren't always put where they're put in English.

Anyway, next lesson up:


It's on noun number: plural, singular and perplural.

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I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:24 pm 
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Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = , ACS / ICS = , GDV = , SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:14 pm 
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Lesson 4! Animacy! Gender! Verb Agreement! Intransitives!


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I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:27 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:24 am 
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Can't do sound files, sorry. Partly because I have no microphone, but mostly because... long vowels? Pitch accent (will be covered later)? No way. Plus I haven't worked out the details of the allophony yet.

On the ergative: ahhh, but you've only seen ONE thing it's used for! Further uses will be introduced in lessons five, six and seven. For now, suffice to say: I'm not using 'intransitive' as a synonym of 'univalent'.




EDIT: And now... an exercise for the attentive reader!

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as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:43 am 
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I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:56 pm 
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Well, not Monday, but if anyone's still interested, here's Lesson 5. It deals with transitivity, and with animacy barring.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:02 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:17 am 
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< Cev> My people we use cars. I come from a very proud car culture-- every part of the car is used, nothing goes to waste. When my people first saw the car, generations ago, we called it šuŋka wakaŋ-- meaning "automated mobile".


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:51 pm 
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I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:15 pm 
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this is good. makes me want to work on my conlangs, especially their cultures and philosophies.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:11 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:36 am 
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But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
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I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:48 am 
Sanno
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Oh, and Lesson Six:


...a short lesson, wherein may be found information on counters, and a brief mention of collective number.

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But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:37 am 
Avisaru
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:47 pm 
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Lesson Seven Now Up!!!!!



This one's on the simple passive, natively passive verbs, and binative verbs. Next we'll be getting into some things that can modify nouns!

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