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 Post subject: Con-Weapons
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:12 pm 
Sanci
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What sort of interesting weaponry have your con-people created? Some say war is inevitable, so unless your conworld is a utopia, they must have something to fight with :-)

My con-people are human, and like us have waged war, and continue to do so. The world of Bakatsu has a particularly dark and bloody past, though little is really known about it. Actual records start in the Old World, the lands in the south-east of Bakatsu where "modern civilization" began.

My focus has mainly stayed on a war known as the Ikutsutsu, translated meaning "Great War". It is considered the longest war in Bakatsu history, totaling 150 years (around 160 in Earth Years). In actuality these were a great number of wars considered separate at the time. The conflict began in the Zelse year of 811, with the Stchafe nation fighting the Bagamaji nation and, more importantly, the Zelsen Empire who came to their defense. The reasons and players changed throughout the 150 year period, but the Zelse and the Stchafe remained major forces for most of the war. Nearly the entire world was pulled into the fighting, and if one should compare a map from before the war to one after, they would see two almost completely different places save for the land itself.

Short summary of the war:
Quote:
At the war's start both sides were generally matched in technology. Musket-like rifles were used alongside more conventional things like blades. The war was fought on land and sea, boats having already been well in use for hundreds of years, though now armored with things like canons. This time is called the "Old Age" by historians.

In 841 a man named Yanaga of the Zelsen Empire perfected the first rifle, a gun with a rifled barrel making it astoundingly accurate. This marked the start of what is now called the "Pre-Modern Age". The Empire soon enjoyed a short period of dominance against the Stchafe before they too designed and put in service a similar group of weapons. In 850 however, turbulence at home on the Zelse island climaxed with the Zelse Revolution, which saw the fall of the Empire in 854. The New Zelse Republic pulled of the war, though fighting between the Stchafe and Bagamaji continued lightly.

By 872 the world was very much changed. The Bagamaji nation was collapsing, worn out from the war effort, while the Stchafe had gained a new ally and major war player, the Pochtu Empire from the north-east. At first the Zelse Republic wanted little to do with the fighting starting once again, but in an attempt to take hold of the resource-rich island the Pochtu and Stchafe attempted an invasion of Zelse. It failed, as the Zelsen military had been continuously trained and armed despite the peace, and the Republic quickly mobilized for a new attack across the sea on the Old World, and entered into the "Modern Age" of the war.

The war finally ended in 962, after the Stchafe (the Pochtu Empire had crumbled during the Modern Age) suffered a huge defeat near the end of 961 at the Battle of Skosku, which paved the way for Zelse forces to push into Stchafe territory. As more troops pushed forward, the Stchafe surrendered. A few months later after terms were negotiated (horribly in favor of the Zelse) the war was officially over. The Stchafe and Bagamaji Empires later fell apart during the huge global depression that followed the war. The Zelse Republic managed to stay together, though was not in good health, and a coup eventually replaced the old government with a new one. But that is another long, different story for another time ;-) .


I've designed a few sets of weapons from the Modern Age. One I've put most work into is the 960 set. In this period the Zelse military put weapons into service in "sets", marked by the year in which they were circulated into the army.

I've done a lot of work on the KHZ960.1, that is, the Katsuka Himatsu Zeruse (KoiHuZai) Nikitohonzu (NiHo) Sai Bu. This is an assault rifle. It uses a magazine loading system. It fires caseless 1.34x10skg (sai-ken-gun, 1.67 thousandths of a gun, a Zelsen measurement) ammunition. It uses a special primer to avoid accidental discharge from heat, which is ignited electronically. This means the gun also requires a battery to fire. Caseless ammo was chosen by the Zelse military as a response to a shortage of funds for making metal cases that would simply be left on the ground in the end. The 960 SaiBu is very similiar to it's predecessor, the 952 SaiBu, save a few small design differences, and re-worked internals making disassembly and clearing jams much easier. It had Zelse-standard attachment slots for sights/scopes (unlike the 952 which had an older type of non-standard slot). It operated at short to medium ranges, though was proven only semi-accurate at longer ranges (it was designed with the the generally close fighting of the tight Bagamaji forests in mind).

Here are some designs:
ImageClick to enlarge

ImageClick to enlarge

ImageClick to enlarge

Attempt at coloring:
ImageClick to enlarge

A cheap low-poly OBJ model (with texture I threw together with what I could find >: ):
ImageClick to download

------------------------------

Some more weapons, these ones made much earlier, at the start of the Modern-era of the Great War, which opened arguably with either the Stchafe invasion of the Zelsen island (which ultimately failed) or the Zelsen invasion of Western Bagamaji (at the time under Stchafe occupation) that led to the ~90 year campaign overseas.

Regardless, after the Stchafe were pushed back from the island, the Hunzai, which had not taken an active role in the ongoing conflicts in Bagamaji for 20 years since the Revolution, joined back into the war effort against Stchafe and its allies.

In order to take back the ground they'd lost, the Zelsen military planned to execute an invasion of enormous scale, involving essentially the entire army. The western coasts of Bagamaji were fortified with bunkers and AA guns, and in order to move their air force inland these had to be cleared (their air power was one of the biggest advantages against the Stchafe at the time).

The solution, called Daka Ye ("Red Day") was to land large numbers of the newly designed SHZ-872T (Saika Himatsu Zeruse Yi kito Yosu Fa Te, "Saika Te na") amphibious light-armored carrier tanks up and down the coast, carrying ~900,000 Hunzai troops. Spread out, this was meant to cover nearly every known Stchafe position on the west coast.

The Te tanks held 9 soldiers (standing room only) in the carrier section and 2 more (driver and machinegunner operator) in the more armored control section. They were powered by steam engine likenesses (the latest power source at that point) and rode on dual "screws".

The Te tanks were loaded and deployed from low-floating mobile air craft carriers (which also held the air fleet). Their screw-propulsion worked excellent in the water, however they were not very fast on land, and though they could take a bullets, Stchafe rockets could easily bring one down. Thus when they hit the beach 8 of the passenger soldiers would get out and escort the tank as it made its way forward towards the bunkers, being careful not to touch the machine gun barrell mounted on the side, or else lose whatever part of themselves touched it (as it heated up very quickly when firing). The ninth remained inside to maintain the gun and aid the operator.

The first-most team that pushed forward were known as the "ikyokaku", or "those who rush bravely into the fight without fear of death". It was their job to take the bunkers and eliminate the men inside, usually accomplished by means of the NT3 (NajiTsu Hen) anti-bunker explosive charges. After that, the rest of the initial landing force would move up with the Te tanks and take out the AA guns, then the fleet would be signaled to move the air craft in. This was not easy, and there were enormous casualties, probably the worst in such a relatively short time of the war.

The landing forces were all armed with the newest rifle designed by Katsuka Yanaga (military gun designing/manufacturing company). This was the Y-72 (before the military started using KHZ "sets"). A rough sketch of it:

Image

The Y-72 could fire in both a "bolt-action" like mode, and semi-auto fire. This was the first semi-auto rifle to be put into large scale use. Normally one could operate the bolt manually, but the rifle could be switched to use the new gas-operated reloading system. The manual mode was far steadier, and in some rare cases the prototype gas-operated system could cause malfunctions, so manual was generally preferred except for closer combat. The rifle had a front, rear, and (for alignment) a middle iron sight attached. It used a six-round magazine, another somewhat new idea. This was also before the Hunzai adopted case-less ammunition and an electrical firing system, so the Y-72 used more standard methods. It also had a bayonet mount underneath as shown.

After the "Red Day" (which actually ended up being about 2 days) the HHZ-1 and -2 (Hibi Himatsu Zeruse Bukai and Fakai, "HunHunZai Bukai/Fakai"), or First/Second Zelse Warrior Squads (akin to Marines) took the west coast, and the way was clear for the rest of the military to begin the long task of pushing the Stchafe out of Bagamaji.

Daka Ye began on the morning of the 87th day of the 4th month (Sonebai) Zelsen year 872, and ended the evening of the 88th when the last reports of Stchafe retreating in-land were received.

"haku hunhunzai bukai ki?"
"kaima kono!"


-"Are you ready, First Warriors?" "Of course yes sir!" A standard cheer of the HHZ Bukai. ~ 10% of them (90000 troops) would be killed in the invasion. Over the 150 year Great War era the world lost estimates in the billions, approx. 2/3 of the world's population at the start of the war.



On an added note, the design of the Y72 was seen numerous times in further Hunzai rifles. The KHZ931 series saw the last issued semi-auto rifle based on the Y-72, before being scrapped from the KHZ program. The sheer amount of 931-Saime's in service kept the rifle in use up till the end of the war, however. The 931-Saimes were far more reliable than all the Saibu series up to the 960-Saibu, just before the Stchafe surrendered to the invading Hunzai army in 961 (the 960-Saibu, the first weapon I talked about, was a huge improvement over previous designs and generally very reliable). Also, the earlier 931-Saime rifles still used traditional casings and firing methods, however they were later adjusted to use standard Hunzai caseless ammunition in 952. These models are known as the 931-52 Saime, and look nearly identical to the 931 on the outside, but instead of normal hammer/primer ignited by strike design they had an electronic firing mechanism like the rest of the 952 and 960 series guns.

Some stuff I recently made (as in just now :-P ) :

HHZ Helmet (insulation lined for southern deployment, the farther South, the colder:
Image


Bad model of the Y-72:
Image


Rough model of an SHZ-872T carrier tank (+fun ye olden time FX to simulate photograph tech at the time) :
Image

-------------------------------------

So, what advances have your con-races made in the fields of weapons? Spears to lasers, let's hear about it! :mrgreen:


Last edited by Toko on Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Con-Weapons
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:39 pm 
Avisaru
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they're very boxy. but they're cool.

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 Post subject: Re: Con-Weapons
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:13 pm 
Sanci
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I was going for lot's of straight lines, kind of a theme I have in other Zelsen stuff, though ignore the models' overall ugliness as they were just thrown together pretty quickly.


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 Post subject: Re: Con-Weapons
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:41 pm 
Smeric
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Carrier tank? how does that work? sort of a heavily-armed APC ?

problem with your boxy tank, which looks nice otherwise, is that straight angles are a gunner's wet dream; if you hit that thing with a big cannon it's dead, because the energy doesn't have anywhere else to go but into the tank, whereas stuff with angled sides are sturdier, for the opposite reason.

Also, regarding the boxy and cool short SMG-like thing *goes to check the post* yeah, the KHZ960.1, it's got a real short barrel, so it only makes sense it's poor at long ranges. Still, forest or no forest, Zelse weaponeers are probably gonna make some longer-range stuff, like rifles or carabines. The thing with the bayonet probably fills that role, but it looks too bulky to be practical to wield, much less as a mélee weapon. I'd recommend either making it thinner or having the bayonet be ceremonial or symbolic; such a heavy rifle can hardly be used practically in mélee.

Also, I loved the story of the Daka Ye; it would make a great narrative setting... sort of a D-day on land. love it.

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 Post subject: Re: Con-Weapons
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:20 pm 
Sanci
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Zereskaoate wrote:
What sort of interesting weaponry have your con-people created? Some say war is inevitable, so unless your conworld is a utopia, they must have something to fight with :-)
-------------------------------------
[snip]
-------------------------------------

So, what advances have your con-races made in the fields of weapons? Spears to lasers, let's hear about it! :mrgreen:


Cool narrative. Ditto what Torco said: that ACP is a spam oven.

As for my con-people's weapons, where should I begin? Small-arms, light weapons, starship armaments?

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 Post subject: Re: Con-Weapons
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:58 pm 
Avisaru
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Melvillians go as far as genetic engineering. Yes, some soldiers are actually happy to give birth to "gifted" children.

(Not that they all go to the military. As a result, Melvillians don't believe in any sport event as a display of human limits.)

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 Post subject: Re: Con-Weapons
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:03 pm 
Sanci
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Torco wrote:
Also, regarding the boxy and cool short SMG-like thing *goes to check the post* yeah, the KHZ960.1, it's got a real short barrel, so it only makes sense it's poor at long ranges. Still, forest or no forest, Zelse weaponeers are probably gonna make some longer-range stuff, like rifles or carabines. The thing with the bayonet probably fills that role, but it looks too bulky to be practical to wield, much less as a mélee weapon. I'd recommend either making it thinner or having the bayonet be ceremonial or symbolic; such a heavy rifle can hardly be used practically in mélee.


I think I said it somewhere in the first post (it's long, I know :P ) but they did have such a weapon, a re-designed version of the Y-72, which was distributed as part of the KHZ sets, designated as the "Sai Me" or .5. The last was the 931-52.5 rifle, which was the same layout as the re-designed 931 but with an electrical firing system and case-less ammunition, and also was truly semi-automatic. There were also larger rifles ("Sai Wa" or .4) designated for longer range combat or sniping tactics. The SaiMe's saw most usage until the 960 SaiBu which corrected a lot of the jamming errors of the earlier models. From 960-961 the SaiBu was most commonly assigned, and there was no 960 SaiMe (but like I said the 931-52 SaiMe still saw wide use amongst already deployed units)

The bayonet remained up till the 931 before it was scrapped, but it wasn't often used in the first place for much the reasons you described: the 72 was a fairly bulky rifle and unsuited for extreme CQB. Most soldiers reportedly removed it in actual conflict, though on display it retained the fixture.

The benefits of the 960.1 were portability/high rate of fire, while sacrificing accuracy, mostly because conflicts in Northern Bagamaji were so close-quarters. The South, however, saw very little use of the 960.1, as it is cold forests with sickly trees that barely manage to survive to snowy tundra (the further you go). Here where there was much less cover the SaiMe remained the main weapon of the army.


Curan Roshac wrote:
Cool narrative. Ditto what Torco said: that ACP is a spam oven.

As for my con-people's weapons, where should I begin? Small-arms, light weapons, starship armaments?


Yeah I feared that would be the case. The actual design of the SHZ is fairly new in my works, and the model doesn't even have a worked out sketch behind it like my guns. Thanks for the tips, time to touch that design up some more :wink:

Start with whatever you want, war and weaponry is something that always interests me in a conworld :D


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 Post subject: Re: Con-Weapons
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:13 pm 
Sanci
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Yiuel Denjidzirc wrote:
Melvillians go as far as genetic engineering. Yes, some soldiers are actually happy to give birth to "gifted" children.

(Not that they all go to the military. As a result, Melvillians don't believe in any sport event as a display of human limits.)


Cool, so then I'm guessing from that that the military is open to both sexes in Melville (or only female)?

Post-Ikutsutsu there was a project to develop super-soldiers during the Genetic Revolution, but it didn't get anywhere before the infamous coup, and genetic experimentation with humans was outlawed.


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 Post subject: Re: Con-Weapons
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:34 am 
Sanci
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Zereskaoate wrote:

Curan Roshac wrote:
Cool narrative. Ditto what Torco said: that APC is a spam oven.

As for my con-people's weapons, where should I begin? Small-arms, light weapons, starship armaments?


Yeah I feared that would be the case. The actual design of the SHZ is fairly new in my works, and the model doesn't even have a worked out sketch behind it like my guns. Thanks for the tips, time to touch that design up some more :wink:

Start with whatever you want, war and weaponry is something that always interests me in a conworld :D


Ok, most small-arms fire caseless ammunition. The multi-barrel MetalStorm[TM]-type weapons are common for larger mortars and sentry guns, even most MGs.

For anti-material rifles, gauss rifles.

More later.

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 Post subject: Re: Con-Weapons
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:38 pm 
Avisaru
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Zereskaoate wrote:
Yiuel Denjidzirc wrote:
Melvillians go as far as genetic engineering. Yes, some soldiers are actually happy to give birth to "gifted" children.

(Not that they all go to the military. As a result, Melvillians don't believe in any sport event as a display of human limits.)


Cool, so then I'm guessing from that that the military is open to both sexes in Melville (or only female)?


The military is open, well, to all sexes, to make things as simple as it can be.

The reason why genetic engineering has not been made illegal within Melville is two-fold. First, because of Melvillian law, whatever you might forbid might be done outside the State (I have such a character, who was made born with two pairs of arms, outside the State, and will become Melvillian). But, most importantly, it didn't turn bad. Most of the attempts either resulted in miscarriage or in healthy children that were treated pretty much as any other child. So there has not been any attempts at forbidding the whole concept, though Melvillians will tend towards prudence in many ways, so they didn't go wild into the field.

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 Post subject: Re: Con-Weapons
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:47 pm 
Avisaru
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Yiuel Denjidzirc wrote:
Melvillians go as far as genetic engineering. Yes, some soldiers are actually happy to give birth to "gifted" children.

(Not that they all go to the military. As a result, Melvillians don't believe in any sport event as a display of human limits.)

Is there anything actually forbidden there?

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 Post subject: Re: Con-Weapons
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:07 pm 
Avisaru
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Christopher Schröder wrote:
Yiuel Denjidzirc wrote:
Melvillians go as far as genetic engineering. Yes, some soldiers are actually happy to give birth to "gifted" children.

(Not that they all go to the military. As a result, Melvillians don't believe in any sport event as a display of human limits.)

Is there anything actually forbidden there?


Murder? There are actually many things. But genetic engineering isn't part of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Con-Weapons
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:08 pm 
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Zereskaoate, rather than jump right into a critique, allow me to ask a question first if you would, as it will determine the nature of said critique. :)

Are you aiming more at a cinematic/anime low level of realism where looking/sounding "cool" is more important that being realistic, or at something more realistic? If it's the former, everythings fine. If it's the latter, you've got some problems, fortunately ones that should be fixable.

One other question just for curiosity's sake: what's the skg to mm conversion?

Torco wrote:
problem with your boxy tank, which looks nice otherwise, is that straight angles are a gunner's wet dream; if you hit that thing with a big cannon it's dead, because the energy doesn't have anywhere else to go but into the tank, whereas stuff with angled sides are sturdier, for the opposite reason.


Sorry not sure if that's a language issue or a technical explanation issue. ;)

Sloped armor is used for two effects: deflection and increased line-of-sight thickness. Deflection is pretty self explanitory - shells hitting armored faces at oblique angles tend to either deflect, bounce or deform. Increased thickness is simply the idea that if you tile a piece of something, the cross-section is thicker. (The formula is Tl = Tn/COS(θ), where Tl is the LOS thickness, Tn is the normal thickness, and θ is the angle of the sloped armour plate from the vertical.)

However, much of this depends on the technology. Sloped armor is more effective against WWII era kinetic energy penatrators. Modern long rod penetrators and HEAT ammunition are able to defeat it more easily, which is why you see more modern tanks have less slope.

As for my own works, I haven't gotten that far in my current Work in progress project, but my NationStates nation from which this internym stems from has several. Here are a few:

Quote:
The Daistallian Military Industry's AR-3 family of assault rifles
Image
Technical description. The AR-3 is a gas operated, magazine fed, air cooling selective fire rifle. The gas action features a short piston stroke, rotating bolt locking mechanism, and adjustable gas regulator. The gas chamber and piston are located above the barrel, and the piston has the cupped head and its own return spring. The square-shaped bolt carrier is mounted inside the receiver on two guide rods, with each rod carrying its own return spring. Both rods are linked by the special end plates so the whole bolt / bolt carrier / return springs / guide rods assembly can be removed from the rifle as a single unit, which greatly simplifies the field maintenance. The rotating bolt is rotated by the bolt pin, which is engaged in the curved cam track, cut in the bolt carrier. The charging handle is fixed to the right side of the bolt carrier and reciprocates when gun is fired.The receiver is made from stamped sheet steel and consists of two parts - upper and lower. Both halves of the receiver are hinged one to another at the front of the receiver. The upper and lower parts are interlocked by the rear ends of the bolt carrier guide rods. AR-3is field stripped by pressing the guide rods forward by the special lever at the rear of the receiver, then by the folding the lower receiver down and forward.
The controls consist of the trigger, safety - fire mode selector at the left side of the receiver , and the bolt stop. The available fire modes are single shots, 3 round bursts, and full auto. The forearm, the pistol grip and the buttstock are made from black plastic. The sling attachment points are located on the barrel, just ahead of the forearm, and at the butt of the pistol grip, so the sling position is not affected by the position of the foldable buttstock.
The sights consist of the hooded front post and disc aperture flip-up diopter rear sight with settings of 400m, 500m, 600m, 800m , also protected from sides by large "dog ears". All optic scope include a x1 setting for close range combat.
The stock is made of carbon fiber, and is hollow allowing the storage of small items such as spare extractors and firing pins, cleaning kit, lens caps. A telescopic stock that can be adjusted to suit the firer's proportions or allow for extra clothing being worn is available. 2 20 volt batteries are incorporatesd in the stock to power any devices fitted to the weapon, as well as the electronic ignition. The battery has an average lifetime of 200 hours.
The barrel is chrome lined for easier cleaning and resistance to the erosive effects of full automatic fire Barrels can be easily removed should there be a need to change configuration or calibre.
Controls are ambidextrous. The burst selector is incorporated into the trigger mechanism.
The barrel is designed to launch standard rifle grenades without modification. There is provision for fitting a silencer/suppressor. The foregrip have attachment points for a wide variety of available accessories, such as grenade launchers, flame-projectors, shotguns, flashlights, laser pointers and electronic sights.
The installed magazine may be to topped up with chargers. The chargers are reloadab, but cheap enough to be disposable when on active service. These chargers are also capable of loading detached magazines. Magazines are semi-transparent and capable of being clipped together. 50, 75, and 100 round drums are also available for assault and support missions.

The caseless ammunition consists out of a slug embedded in a nitrocellulose compound. The cartridge burns in the rifle completely. The ignition charge is a semi conductor using the battery in the stock to ignite the cartridge directly.

The family of weapons consist of: the AR-3 Assault Rifle, the AR-3a Carbine, the AR-3-HB Heavy Barrel, the AR-3-MK Marksman's Rifle, the AR-3-12 Heavy Assault Rifle, and the AR-3-SG Shotgun
There are a variety of standard accessories available, including the GL-1 Grenade Launcher, the SG-1 Shotgun, and the FT-1 Flame Projector, as well as assorted adjustable furniture and sights.


http://www.angelfire.com/dragon/daistal ... 3/ar3.html

Stat Blocks:
AR-3 Assault Rifle

Caliber: 7x41 mm electronic caseless
Action: Gas operated
Overall length: 898 mm
Barrel length: 543 mm
Weight: 2.31 kg with empty magazine
Rate of fire: 450 rpm full auto and 600 rpm burts
Magazine capacity: 30 rounds
Maximum effective range: 650 meters
Maximum range: 2000 meters
Muzzle velocity: 850 meters per second
Unit Cost: $US 1350

The DMI AR-3a Assault Carbine
AR-3a Carbine
Caliber: 7x41 mm electronic caseless
Action: Gas operated
Overall length: 698 mm
Barrel length: 423 mm
Weight: 2.01 kg with empty magazine
Rate of fire: 450 rpm full auto and 600 rpm burts
Magazine capacity: 30 rounds
Maximum effective range: 500 meters
Maximum range: 1800 meters
Muzzle velocity: 850 meters per second
Unit Cost: $US 2150



Quote:
T-2 Mahakala Medium Tank

Image

The purpose of this vehicle is to provide mobile firepower for armored formations of sufficient capability to successfully close with and destroy any opposing armored fighting vehicle in the world, while providing protection for it's crew in any conceivable combat environment. It is capable of engaging the enemy in any weather, day or night on the multi-dimensional, non-linear battlefield using its firepower, manuever, and shock effect.



Weight: 70,032 kg
Length: 9.5m
Width: 3.5m
Height: 2.8m
Gun Overhang: 1.5 m

Crew: 3 (Commander, driver, and gunner)

Engines: 12 proton exchange membrane fuel cells, generating 120 kWs each, for a total of 1440 kWs, lithium polymer batteries generating 3840 kWh
Power/Weight Ratio: 20.57 kW/tn
Fuel Carried: 12 alkali-modified fullerene nanotube lattice hydrogen canisters, containing 2kg of hydrogen each (100 kg) – 40 hours supply
Transmission: Hydro Kinetic Automatic 3/3

Mobility:
Max Road Speed: 70km/h
Max Road Speed: 55 km/h

Road Range: 2000 km
Off Road Range: 1500 km
Groundclearance: 0.50m
Tracklenght to ground: 2.85m
Track Width: 40cm
Track Ground Contact: 22,800 cm2
Ground Pressure: 2.85kg/cm2
Turn Radius: pivot
Fording: 1.2m
Gradient: 70%
Side Slope: 40
Obstacle performance ditch: 2.3m
Obstacle performance vertical: 0.8m

Main armanent: 140mm hypervelocity smoothbore cannon with auto loader.
Transverse: full
Elevation: -10 deg to +15 deg
Amunition: HE, HEAT, EFP, Smoke, Cannister, Fin Stabilised Armour Piercing Discarding Sabot (FSAPDS), Fin Stabilised Armour Piercing Discarding Sabot - Depleted Uranium (FSAPDS-DU), Fin Stabilised Armour Piercing Discarding Sabot - Tungsten (FSAPDS-T), and High Explosive Squash Head (HESH)

Secondary Armament:
2 x linked co-axial 7mm DMI MG-3s, 2 x 7mm DMI MG-3s (commander and driver positions)
2x3 66 Smoke grenade launchers
2 prismatic anti laser aerosol dispensers
7mm ammunition: 6000 rounds
140mm ammunition: 50 rounds
Armor:
Hull:
Front: 400mm@60 deg (3600mm HRA equivilant)
Side: 200mm@0 deg (600mm HRA equivilant)
Rear: 150mm@0 deg (450mm RHA equivilant)
Top/Bottom: 100mm@0 deg (300mm RHA equivilant)
Contengency package:
Front: +100mm@60 deg (900mm HRA equivilant)
Side: +100mm@0 deg (300mm HRA equivilant)
Turret:
Front: 400mm@60 deg (3600mm RHA equivilant)
Sides/Rear: 250mm@0 deg (750mm RHA equivilant)
Top/Bottom: 100mm@0 deg (300mm RHA equivilant)

Cost: 15 million USD


Notes and Features:
Both the fuel and ammunition are compartmented to enhance survivability. The hull and turret are protected by advanced armor. When required, the T2 may be fitted with "reactive armor" to thwart armor-defeating munitions.
Armamaent
The main weapon of the T2 is a 140mm smoothbore hypervelocity cannon. The gun is made of ESR steel and is fitted with a thermal sleeve and fume extractor. It employs a thixotrope non-hypergolic binary hydrazine propellant, with a freezing point of -100 C and a boiling point of 102.3 C. It is injected by a computerized system in the precise proportions needed to generate the acceleration/final velocity/range deisred for the trajectory wanted. It has a muzzle velocity of 1500 m/sec. Engagement ranges are approximately 6000 meters. Several types of ammunition are available.
A 7mm DMI MG-3 is located in a powered mount at the Commander's station and is equipped with a x3 magnification sight. The Loader is provided with another 7mm DMI MG-3, and two 7mm DMI MG-3s are mounted coaxially in a fixed mount on either side of the main gun to suppress enemy ground troops.
The turret is fitted with two six-barreled 66mm smoke grenade launchers, one on each side of the main gun. The standard smoke grenade contains a phosphors compound that masks thermal signature of the vehicle to the enemy.

Layout
The layout of the T2 follows classic tank design and accommodates a crew of three: Commander, Gunner, and Driver. The Commander is seated on the right side of the turret. The Gunner is seated on the left side of the turret, and the Driver is seated at the center front of the hull.
The Commander's station is equipped with six periscopes which provide all round 360 degree view. The Commandee's Integrated Multi-spectral Viewer (CIMV) provides the commander with independent, stabilized day and night vision with a 360 degree view, automatic sector scanning, It also allows automatic targeting and a complete back-up fire control system - the Commander is capable of firing the main gun independent of the Gunner.
The Gunner's Integrated Multi-spectral Viewer (GIMV), creates an image based on the multi-specteral sights. The integrated image is displayed in the eyepiece of the Gunner's sight together with the range measurement, from a laser range finder, which is integrated into the fire control systems, as well as fire control solution data from the fire control computer, including the lead angle measurement, gun variances, ammunition type, cant, and local weather coditions (including wind velocity, temperature, and barometric pressure).
The Driver's station is located at the center front of the hull. The Driver is in a semi-reclined position when his hatch is closed, as it must be whenever the vehicle is in operation. The drivers station is equipped with an array of multi-functional OLED monitors reflecting the condition of the vehicle fluid levels, batteries and electrical equipment. The Driver has a multispecteral array of periscopes providing a 120 degrees field of view, enabling the tank to maneuver equally in daytime as in darkness or poor visibility conditions such as in the dust and smoke encountered on the battlefield.

Stabilization
The turret and gun system are equiped with various weapon stabilization systems, including electric direct (gearless) turret azimuth drive, barrel actuator active damping control, fully integrated gearless turret/gun direct drives, and digital servo control, increasing probability of hit under moving conditions.
A dozer blade or an MCBS mine plow can be fitted.
A deep water fording kit is also available.

Electronic systems:
Independent thermal imaging, forward looking infrared (FLIR), electronic and optical day sights, integrated electronic controls and multi-funtion OLED displays, , electronic fire control, laser sensor, BCN gear (including 2 SNPS navigation units, FVT unit, and 4 MTRN communication units), digital data bus and radio interface unit, laser range finder, digital ballistic computer, and other classified systems. All electronics systems are tied into a digital appliqué command and control package on the Turret Network Box (TNB) and Hull Network Box (HNB) . This allows easy maintenance, as well as allowing future electronic growth by providing unpopulated card slots.

Protection
The stowage for the main armament ammunition is in armored ammunition boxes behind sliding armor doors. Armor bulkheads separate the crew compartment from the fuel tanks. The tank is equipped with an automatic fire extinguishing system. This system automatically activates within 2 milliseconds of either a flash or a fire within the various compartments of the vehicle. The top panels of the tank are designed to blow outwards in the event of penetration by a HEAT projectile.
Nuclear, Biological and Chemical (NBC) warfare protection is provided by an overpressure clean-air conditioning air system, a radiological warning system, and a chemical agent detector. The crew are individually equipped with protective suits and masks.
Passive Protection:
Basic passive armor consists of a layered composite. The outermost layer is a thin sprayed on layer of armor quality polyethylene. Next are several sandwiched layers of foam steel alloy, reinforced with embedded carbide whiskers, and a ceramic matrix, also reinforced with embedded carbide whiskers. This is backed with a layer of foam titanium alloy reinforced with embedded carbide whiskers. The innermost layer is a spalling shield made up of several sheets of 2-D weave boron filament, bioweave, and polyethylene fiber. The combined elements have a total Specific Strength* (MPa-cm3/g) of 450, or 3 times that of RHA steel armor. The armor is installed in modular sections for quick and esy replacement and maintainance.
Lightweight contingency armor packages of polyethylene and foam titanium alloy reinforced with embedded carbide whiskers armor skirts can can be applied to the sides and front to provide additional protection. The full contengency package adds an extra 3000 kg to the vehicles weight.

Active Protection:
The primary active protection system is the Active Defense System (ADS), which incorporates various sensors, prsmatic anti-laser aerosol launchers and smoke projectors, non-explosive reactive armor systems, defensive lasers, defensive electronics systems, and kinetic defense systems.
The center of all the active defense systems is the All Aspect System (AAS). It uses 20 sets of detector arrays (16 in azimuth, and 4 in elevation) to cover the entire hemisphere. The detectors are multi-spectral sensitive: low light visual, lasers, radars, IR homers, proxemity, and other sensors. The warning system triggers various alarms, as well as defensive systems. It is controlled by a 700 THz main processor and an array of low-end subprocessors, with 64PB of onboard dataspace, which classifies the inbound threat and assigns the right countermeasure to defeat it. The countermeasures systems are automatically activated. After a threat is detecte, the appropriate countermeasure units are traversed at high slewing rate (over 600 degrees/sec.) aiming at the general directional of the threat. At this stage the target is handed over to the launcher mounted sensor, which performs the ballistic calculations for the final intercept.
The first system to be activated is the the Ranged Electronic/Laser/Kinetic Kill System (RELKKS). This is designed to be active in the 100 to 30 meter range. It provides self-protection against a broad range of incomming systems using soft kill electronic countermeasures (jammers and decoys) and hard kill active protection systems (physical interruption) to protect a vehicle from direct fire and top attack threats. This system includes a High Energy Radio Frequency/Microwave System (HERFMS), a Laser Kill System (LKS), and a Kinetic Kill System (KKS) . The system activated depends on the threat. The HERFMS kills inbound guidance systems. The LKS kills optical systems. And the KKS launches a projectile in the direction of the incoming threat, to intercept and destroy it at a distance of 30 meters.
At closer ranges (30 to 1 meter), the second line is activated. This includes electro-optical IR jammers, as well as radar, UV, and IR decoy systems. The decoys provide false targets to multi-spectral IR/laser or millimeter-wave threats. The decoys provides survivable miss distance against missiles and SFM threats. Also included are 66mm smoke grenade dischargers, chaff rockets, flare rockets, anti-laser aerosol projectors. The ALA projectors release a thick metal oxide vapor which reflects incident high-frequency laser light, while absorbing particle beam energy. The gas cloud released by the ALA obscures LOS for any unaugmented unit. The ALA also has limited radar scattering effects. The smoke grenades are for visible and IR making. The chaff rockets provide radar masking, and the flares act as IR decoys.
The close range (1-0 meter) active defenses include airbag and electric armor. The airbag system deploys a "curtain" down the sides of the vehicle held in place with simple straps. On detection of incoming shells, rockets, or missiles, the airbag inflates, using a carbon dioxide gas cartridge. The warhead is enshrouded in the airbag and slowed enough so the nose-mounted fuse doesn't detonate the warhead. Instead, the incoming weapon collapses and ends up looking "like a stomped-on beer can". The cartridge has to be replaced after one use, but the reusable airbag can simply be rolled up and put back into place.
The electronic "charged" armor system is composed of an earthed outer armored plate, a spaced gap, and an inner charged plate a highly connected to a charged capacitor. Shaped charge warheads detonate, penetrate the outer armor plate and the insulation of the inner plate, it completes the circuit, which results in the discharge of the capacitor and the vaporisation and dissapation of most of the the metal jet. The charged plates can take multiple hits onto the same section of the hull without penetration. Power to charge the plates is provided from the powerplant. The electrical system can be switched on or off depending on the perceived threat level, using the tank's internal power supply. Despite the high charge generated by the system, the "electrical load on the battery is no more than that caused by starting the engine on a cold morning".
[/quote]
http://www.angelfire.com/dragon/daistal ... k2/t2.html

If anyone's interested, here's the URL for the whole collection: http://www.angelfire.com/dragon/daistal ... index.html

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 Post subject: Re: Con-Weapons
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:03 pm 
Sanci
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Daistallia wrote:
Zereskaoate, rather than jump right into a critique, allow me to ask a question first if you would, as it will determine the nature of said critique. :)

Are you aiming more at a cinematic/anime low level of realism where looking/sounding "cool" is more important that being realistic, or at something more realistic? If it's the former, everythings fine. If it's the latter, you've got some problems, fortunately ones that should be fixable.


The more realistic the better either way if you ask me, if there's something that needs improvement on the way to realism then fire away :P

And I when I went to look up the conversion I realized that 1.67skg is incorrect, the first, older sketch has the correct number on it, 1.34 skg, which comes out to ~6.02mm, 1 gun = ~4.497 meters (it's based on the distance traveled by light in a certain fraction of a yun, Zelsen time measurement)


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 Post subject: Re: Con-Weapons
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:10 pm 
Lebom
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Zereskaoate wrote:
The more realistic the better either way if you ask me, if there's something that needs improvement on the way to realism then fire away :P


Alrighty. :P

The first observation is I'd like to see more technical detail - what sort of action does it have, for example. Other than that, the main problems are below, with special attention to the pics towards the end.

Zereskaoate wrote:
And I when I went to look up the conversion I realized that 1.67skg is incorrect, the first, older sketch has the correct number on it, 1.34 skg, which comes out to ~6.02mm, 1 gun = ~4.497 meters (it's based on the distance traveled by light in a certain fraction of a yun, Zelsen time measurement)


That's one down, not to worry about. 6x45 mm is a realistic cartridge.

Quote:
This is an assault rifle. It uses a magazine loading system.


More important than it's being magazine fed, how does the feeding mechanisim (or action) work? Is is recoil, blowback, or gas operated, and which flavor of those? Also, what's the magazine capacity and what sort of magazines does it use? (I'm assuming you mean a detatchable box magazine. ;))

Quote:
It fires caseless 1.34x10skg (sai-ken-gun, 1.67 thousandths of a gun, a Zelsen measurement) ammunition. It uses a special primer to avoid accidental discharge from heat, which is ignited electronically. This means the gun also requires a battery to fire.


Quote:
Caseless ammo was chosen by the Zelse military as a response to a shortage of funds for making metal cases that would simply be left on the ground in the end.


Quote:
The 960 SaiBu is very similiar to it's predecessor, the 952 SaiBu, save a few small design differences, and re-worked internals making disassembly and clearing jams much easier. It had Zelse-standard attachment slots for sights/scopes (unlike the 952 which had an older type of non-standard slot).


A bit vague on details, but better.

Quote:
It operated at short to medium ranges, though was proven only semi-accurate at longer ranges (it was designed with the the generally close fighting of the tight Bagamaji forests in mind).


As already mentioned, this appears to be more of an SMG than an actual AR. Part of this may just be the pics, especially the scale thereof. Going by the cartridge dimesnsions, you have a barrel of about 7-10 cm. That's short for an SMG, almost into what I'd class more as a machine pistol. Also, the pistol grip appears really awkward. It looks like it should be rotated 90 deg on the horozontal, so that its long and narrow rather that short and thick.

More in a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Con-Weapons
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:18 pm 
Smeric
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axes, sticks, pikes, javelins, composite bows and, of course, maces and short sword; standard issue bronze age weaponry. I should really think about how a denser atmosphere [Somewhere around 1.2atm] and a lower gravity ['round 0.80m/s^2] affect weapons development and stuff, not to mention an abundance of easy-to-mine cupronickel deposits [which I understand is a pretty strong alloy, and which often fullfils the role of the harder-to-smelt iron].

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 Post subject: Re: Con-Weapons
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:06 pm 
Avisaru
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The Myonian T-3 tank, which I happened to have information for already laying around.

Image
(The background is not mine, but the tank model is)

Basic stats
Length: 9.1m hull, 12.8m gun forward
Height: 3.68m
Width: 4m
Main gun: 120mm railgun (rails hidden within the barrel itself), also equipped for missile launching.
Main gun movement: 15° down, 30° up
Secondary guns: 40mm railguns
Secondary gun movement: 15° down, 45° up
Crew: 4

Power is generated by a miniaturized fusion reactor.

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 Post subject: Re: Con-Weapons
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:31 pm 
Lebom
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Saltha is very far behind in terms of technology. No tanks or machine guns (or really fire arms for that mf atter). In fact, Saltha's first fire arms, an assault riffle were recently purchased from another country (on NationStates). Hopefully Saltha won't need to go to war until they catch up. :P

Fidasek ("Trap four")
Image
A spear handle with four sharp curved blades. that can be used to disarm opponents.

One "weapon" they have isn't really one, it's a stick with padding on one end (kind of like those things in american gladiator, only on one end). I forget what it's called. It's used by children in training. The children sneak up on other children who are in other clans to "assasinate" them.

Unoriginal weapons Salthans use include spears, swords and daggers.

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 Post subject: Re: Con-Weapons
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:51 pm 
Sanci
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Curan Roshac wrote:
Zereskaoate wrote:

Curan Roshac wrote:
Cool narrative. Ditto what Torco said: that APC is a spam oven.

As for my con-people's weapons, where should I begin? Small-arms, light weapons, starship armaments?


Yeah I feared that would be the case. The actual design of the SHZ is fairly new in my works, and the model doesn't even have a worked out sketch behind it like my guns. Thanks for the tips, time to touch that design up some more :wink:

Start with whatever you want, war and weaponry is something that always interests me in a conworld :D


Ok, most small-arms fire electronically-fired caseless ammunition. The multi-barrel MetalStorm[TM]-type weapons are common for larger mortars and sentry guns, even most MGs. while most MGs, and to a large degree most other artillery, are either of the E-C (Electronic Caseless) or the "Gauss" gun variety.

For anti-material rifles, gauss rifles.

More later. Thermonuclear devices over 10kT are usually considered overkill, but only because non-nuclear, orbitally-deployed alternatives exist.



Italics added.

As cool as small arms and light weapons are, the real damage is done in space and by ships and other propelled objects.

I'll elaborate. Once one has defeated the enemy fleet, the planet in question is vulenerable to bombardment via redirected asteroids. Ground forces are merely a type of police force used to insure the cooperation of the occupied populace.

For shipborne weapons, expect mass drivers, masers, lasers and a plethora of thermonuke-tipped missiles. The setting is a hard SF interpretation of a typical Space Opera kind of setting, with elements of CyberPunk; thus, no energy shields but FTL drives exist. No FTL comms or sencors either.

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 Post subject: Re: Con-Weapons
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:59 pm 
Sanci
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Daistallia wrote:
More important than it's being magazine fed, how does the feeding mechanism (or action) work? Is is recoil, blow-back, or gas operated, and which flavor of those? Also, what's the magazine capacity and what sort of magazines does it use? (I'm assuming you mean a detachable box magazine. ;))


As I said, it uses an electrical firing system, so no mechanical "bolt" required. The feeding mechanism s just a simple spring-loaded detachable box magazine. Older models created before the electrical firing system was adopted used a simple blow-back mechanism which was unfortunately prone to jamming due to some poor design flaws.

The actual magazine size could vary, though standard issue was a 24-round mag.

There's not many good examples of electrical firing systems in weapons on Earth today, but I know of one rifle, the VEC-91, that uses such a method. Supposedly the somewhat faster firing of the bullet with electrical vs. mechanical, and the fact that the bullet is the only moving piece in the gun, helps increase accuracy somewhat, and decrease recoil a bit as well. The electrical system was more a response to the case-less ammunition adopted by the Zelsen military in this case.


Quote:
As already mentioned, this appears to be more of an SMG than an actual AR. Part of this may just be the pics, especially the scale thereof. Going by the cartridge dimensions, you have a barrel of about 7-10 cm. That's short for an SMG, almost into what I'd class more as a machine pistol. Also, the pistol grip appears really awkward. It looks like it should be rotated 90 deg on the horizontal, so that its long and narrow rather that short and thick.


Unfortunately, these pictures shouldn't be taken too literally, as I am not too good at actually drawing in the first place. Maybe I should have pointed out in my original post, but the sketches and models are not at all to scale :oops: They were more to give a basic look.

The actual barrel length is ~40 skg, which should come out to around 7 inches.

IDK about the grip, ignore the perspective sketch's appearance of it though as that is too thick.

One day I'll find some nice modeling program and actually plug these numbers in :roll:

And yes, I would call it an SMG. The Zelsen military didn't really have a smaller machine gun at the time, and just called it an assault rifle (katsuka tsukai) like the other larger automatic rifles in the KHZ sets. The later post-war designs were called katsuka itsukai, "little automatic rifle", which is more like an SMG classification.


Last edited by Toko on Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Con-Weapons
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:52 pm 
Niš
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Here's the smoking lance, an important 16th - 19th century cavalry weapon.

The smoking lance was invented after the Bessarhusian colonists made contact with the Harykanid Zama-Khans and began trading gunpowder. The smoking lance is effectively a very very very long bayonet. They used broad Murkha bamboo for the shaft, which could be 3 - 4 metres long. On the end was affixed a large bore gun, at first using wheellock mechanisms but eventually switching over to flintlock in the mid 1700s. The gun was frequently 60 - 90 cm long and fired balls 3 - 4 cm in diameter, and a bayonet of 70 - 80 cm was attached to the end. A large counterbalance would be needed. The total length of the lance could be 5 - 6 metres. At first these were used in a devastating cavalry charge, where the first line would hand gallop, perform a sliding stop, fire their lances, then retreat to the back of the column, followed by the second rank doing the same, etc, the cavalry would only charge home if they needed to after at least half had fired off their lances. The lance was typically held in both hands, only the legs and the seat were used to control the horse.

Reloading these was a pain, and after the charge, they had to retreat to baggage trains where footmen would reload or give them fresh lances.

In the mid-late 1800s, muzzleloaders became obsolete, and the smoking lance became slightly shorter. The 1843 Gurkhan pattern was 4.7 metres long. In the 1850s, repeating rifles became available and the smoking lance became a repeating smoking lance, often using bolt or pump action. The 1858 Urkhanka model was 5.2 metres long. These were extremely capable weapons in the right hands. The last use of the smoking lance happened during the Appalan War in 1911, in the Ala-Khanid cavalry charge against the Wardoz at Pouhannast.

I've designed several other sets of arms and armour from different civs and time periods, but they are not particularly strange, although some of them have some interesting styles.

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 Post subject: Re: Con-Weapons
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:09 pm 
Sanci
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Zeroskoate:

How big is a Felsen gun?

EDIT: Never mind, I found it :oops: .

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 Post subject: Re: Con-Weapons
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:17 am 
Lebom
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I always thought the idea of War-Scissors was an interesting one. These would be scissors anywhere from the size of ones hand to maybe 4 times as big. One would place one or more of ones fingers (depending on the size, in the hole, and swing it about, using specific arm/hand movements to open/close the blade (this would obviously take a lot of training). It would be really cool to watch


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 Post subject: Re: Con-Weapons
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:54 am 
Avisaru
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Torco wrote:
I should really think about how a denser atmosphere [Somewhere around 1.2atm] and a lower gravity ['round 0.80m/s^2] affect weapons development and stuff...

It means that drag is higher and weight lower, so I'd expect projectile weapons would tend to be heavier. More javelins, heavier arrows with less fletching, that sort of thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Con-Weapons
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:12 am 
Smeric
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the duke of nuke wrote:
Torco wrote:
I should really think about how a denser atmosphere [Somewhere around 1.2atm] and a lower gravity ['round 0.80m/s^2] affect weapons development and stuff...

It means that drag is higher and weight lower, so I'd expect projectile weapons would tend to be heavier. More javelins, heavier arrows with less fletching, that sort of thing.


I had forgotten about drag... yup, looks like javelins and pretty heavy arrows. still, it means ranged weapons can be a lot less accurate, so yeah.

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