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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:33 pm 
Avisaru
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In this thread, I'll be writing about the reformed South Eresian that I've been working on over the last couple days. Stuff I've posted before about the language may not be completely accurate, although things are mostly the same. I've particularly given the English orthography a huge go-over for aesthetic reasons, so now it looks like it was designed by a Hispanophone.

A note: I am honestly baffled as to how to transcribe some of the allophony, so I made up my own system. If you want to help me standardize it or if you are confused, please speak up!

South Eresian is a language in the Noro-Eresian family, which is spread throughout the Eresian Islands and a large part of eastern and southern Norua and includes languages such as Washar and Onostrian. It is part of the Eresian subfamily, the most notable other member of which is called Pirqharat or North Eresian. South Eresian, as is evident from its name, is spoken primarily in the southern Eresian Islands. Its internal name is T'antapi.

I will largely be talking about the Tlaqoyan dialect, which is generally considered the standard language and is spoken in Tlaqoya (a city in the southeast) and surrounding areas, especially by the educated. I will mention other dialects occasionally, but for simplicity's sake will mostly stick to Tlaqoyan.

So without further ado...

Phoneme Inventory:

Code:
                labial    alveolar  palatal    velar     uvular   glottal
nasal              m         n                                             
plosive          p  p'     t  t'               k  k'     q  q'       ʔ     
fricative                    s         ʃ                                   
approximant        w         l         j                                   
affricate                 ts  ts'   tʃ  tʃ'                               
l. affricate              tɬ  tɬ'                                         
tap                          ɾ                                             


Code:
i
e     o
   a


Orthography:
Many things are written as in IPA, but many are not. Here is a description of how it varies from IPA.

Simple variations:

/ʔ/ -> <h>
/ʃ/ -> <x>
/j/ -> <y>
/ts/ -> <z>
/ts'/ -> <z'>
/tʃ/ -> <ch>
/tʃ'/ -> <ch'>
/tɬ/ -> <tl>
/tɬ'/ -> <tl'>
/ɾ/ -> <r>

Complex variations:

/w/ -> <v> word-initially and intervocalically, <u> elsewhere.
/k/ -> <qu> before /i e/, <c> elsewhere.
/k'/ -> <q'u> before /i e/, <c'> elsewhere.

The sequence /qw/ is rare and only occurs at morpheme boundaries, where it is written <qü> before /i e/.

Stressed vowels are written with acute accents.

Phonotactics:

It is not quite possible to sum up South Eresian phonotactics with a simple syllable structure, but it is basically CVC. More specifically, the consonants can be put into two overlapping groups of phonemes that occur syllable-initially and phonemes that occur syllable-finally. Please note that in practice, many of these sounds do not actually occur in these positions, but this is governed by allophony. There is another group consisting of clusters that only occur medially within morphemes, which I will list here as Medial.

Initial: m n p p' t t' k k' q q' ʔ s ʃ w l j ts ts' tʃ tʃ' tɬ tɬ' ɾ pɾ kw k'w

Medial: (all Initial), ʔm ʔn mp mp' nt nt' nk nk' nq nq' nts nts' ntʃ ntʃ' ntɬ ntɬ' mpɾ nkw nk'w st st' sk sk' stɬ stɬ' skw sk'w ʃt ʃt' ʃk ʃk' ʃtɬ ʃtɬ' ʃkw ʃk'w lt lt' lk lk' lts lts' ltʃ ltʃ' lkw lk'w

Final: m n p t k q ʔ s ʃ w l j ts tʃ tɬ ɾ nw tw kw qw ʔw lw jw ɾw

The final internal morpheme structure is ultimately (I)V(MV)(F), with (MV) potentially occurring numerous times, and words can consist of this morpheme structure repeated numerous times with actual realizations governed by the allophony listed below.

Allophony:

All the allophonic rules are in a random order. I will fix them in the morning when I can think.

For the sake of simplicity, please assume that in all cases, unless otherwise marked, if a rule applies to a nonejective plosive or affricate, it applies to its ejective counterpart. These are the categories I will use so this section doesn't fill up the universe:

P = plosive: p p' t t' k k' q q' ʔ
A = affricate: ts ts' tʃ tʃ' tɬ tɬ'
T = P and A
Y = glide: y w
F = fricative: s ʃ
L = liquid: l ɾ
S = F and L
N = nasal: m n

When something is marked with a superscript number, that means that it is at the same PoA as other things marked with the same number within the rule and not at the same PoA as things marked with a different number.

Vowels:

/a/ -> [ɑ] / [+uvular / +glottal]_, _[+uvular / +glottal], _#, [+stress]
/e [-stress]/ -> [ɛ] / [+uvular / +glottal]_, _[+uvular / +glottal]
/o [-stress]/ -> [ɔ] / [+uvular / +glottal]_, _[+uvular / +glottal]
/i/ -> [ɪ] / [+uvular / +glottal]_, _[+uvular / +glottal]

/ow/ -> [u]
/ij/ -> [i]
/j/ -> 0 / tʃ_, ʃ_, _i
/aw ew/ -> [o] / (-stress)
/aj/ -> [e] / (-stress)
/ej/ -> [i] / (-stress)

Consonants:
/ɾ/ -> [l] / _C(-Y), _#
/A/ -> [S] / _C(-Y)
/[+alveolar]j/ -> [+palatal]
/nT1/ -> [N1T1]
/mT1/ -> [N1T1w]
/w/ -> 0 / (+labial)_
/C:/ -> [C]
/P/ -> 0 / _T
/F1A2/ -> [F2]*
/F1F2/ -> [F2]
/F1A'2/ -> [A2]*
/ʔT Tʔ/ -> [T']
/m n/ -> [ŋ] / _#
/S1S2/ -> [S2A2]
/w/ -> 0 / C_#, C_C

*Note that these rules only apply if the original affricate has a corresponding fricative: /tɬ/ corresponds to the liquid /l/ (and to /ɾ/ to an extent), and clusters of /Ftɬ/ remain unchanged. Thus, /ˈmolas/ + /tɬaˈliʔ/ -> [molastɬaˈlɪʔ] <molastlalíh>, but /molas/ + /ˈtʃen/ -> [molaˈʃeŋ] <molaxén>.

(Nonejective) plosives and affricates are aspirated at the beginning of stressed syllables. Vowels following ejectives are always stressed; this is notable for being the only situation in which two stressed syllables can occur in a word.

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Last edited by Risla on Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:18 am, edited 11 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:11 am 
Smeric
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Risla Amahendir wrote:
/mT1/ -> [N1T1w]

Ooh, nice allophone! :D

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:20 am 
Avisaru
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Ain't nothing wrong with that, Becky; it's quite interesting. I take it the apostrophes represent ejectives?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:33 am 
Avisaru
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@Qwynegold: Thanks! That's my favorite allophone in the language.

@bricka: Thanks, although I am vaguely alarmed as to how you not only know my first name (though I probably posted it here somewhere) but know which diminutive not to call me. :P

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:59 am 
Avisaru
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Quote:
/C1C1/ -> [C1]

This I think needs to be clarified. If I'm reading this rule right with your note about superscripts, this is "when two consonants sharing place of articulation are adjacent, one is deleted." You need to clarify which one gets deleted. As you have it, you can have something like /nd/ > [d] or /nd/ > [n]. Which of those outcomes do you want?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:38 am 
Avisaru
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roninbodhisattva wrote:
Quote:
/C1C1/ -> [C1]

This I think needs to be clarified. If I'm reading this rule right with your note about superscripts, this is "when two consonants sharing place of articulation are adjacent, one is deleted." You need to clarify which one gets deleted. As you have it, you can have something like /nd/ > [d] or /nd/ > [n]. Which of those outcomes do you want?

Oops, what I meant was when a consonant is repeated, one of them is deleted, but I made a stupid because I was half asleep when I posted this. I'll just put that in as /C:/ -> [C], I guess. Thanks for catching that.

And yes, the apostrophes mark ejectives. The actual ejective symbol is so similar that I got sick of copypasting it and replaced all of them with apostrophes; I meant to run a search and replace but I forgot, so people can figure it out. :P

Also I had a long post typed up but then bumped my computer wrong and it closed my browser and I can't recover the post. FRUSTRATION. I have the stuff I wanted to add written down, but I had it formatted all nicely and was about to hit the post button and now have to do it all over. :(

So, things I forgot to mention because I am dumb and will incorporate into the OP when I am done not paying attention in linguistics class:

-On the rule /F1A2/ -> [F2], this only applies if the original affricate has a corresponding fricative: /tɬ/ corresponds to the liquid /l/ (and to /ɾ/ to an extent), and clusters of /Ftɬ/ remain unchanged. Thus, /ˈmolas/ + /tɬaˈliʔ/ -> [molastɬaˈlɪʔ] <molastlalíh>, but /molas/ + /ˈtʃen/ -> [molaˈʃeŋ] <molaxén>.

I also forgot to mention a similar (but different!) process with ejectives:
/F1A'2/ -> [A2] Yes, that is deejectivization going on. /ˈmolas/ + /ts'aq/ -> [molatsak]. Again, /tɬ'/ is unaffected by this.

And a couple more allophony rules:

/j/ -> 0 / tʃ_, ʃ_, _i
/aw ew/ -> [o] / (-stress)
/aj/ -> [e] / (-stress)

and the rule /ej/ -> [i] works like the above and is sensitive to stress.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:45 pm 
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Why hello there, Mesoamerican Linguistic Area!

(This looks good. And, yeah, the allophony writeup was nice and clear to me. Post more when you've got it!)

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:18 pm 
Avisaru
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Okay, while I beat the diachronics into submission, here's a rundown of the writing system of South Eresian.

First of all, here are the glyphs:

Image

This writing system is not perfectly phonemic (otherwise it would just be boring), but all the glyphs have predictable pronunciations. As phonemically as possible:

Code:
     1    2    3    4    5

A    p    t    k    q    ts

B    tʃ   tɬ   ʔ    kw   pʼ

C    tʼ   kʼ   qʼ   tsʼ  tʃʼ

D    tɬʼ  kʼw  m    n    s

E    ʃ    ʔ    ɾ    l    j

F    w    n    a    e    Ø


So how does it work?

It is written either left to right (in informal contexts) or boustrophedon (in formal documents).

Glyphs A1 through B2 (and B4) are predictable. They occur only in syllable-onset positions within any given morpheme.

Glyphs B5 through D2 are also predictable; they occur in a) syllable onsets positions (representing ejective consonants) and b) in syllable- and morpheme- coda positions (representing. When they occur in morpheme-coda positions before a stressed vowel (and are as such not ejective), glyph F5 is added immediately afterwards.

Glyphs D1, D3 through E1 and E3 through F1 are the easiest glyphs: they are written the same regardless of where they are in a syllable. When they occur syllable-finally, the glyph is followed immediately by glyph F5.

Glyphs F3 and F4 are the vowels. These can also be followed by glyph F5 to change them to representing /o i/ respectively (which is also unwritten when the vowel is unstressed). The vowels are only written in stressed syllables. When an unstressed vowel is written at the beginning of a word, glyph F5 is inserted.

Glyphs B3 and E2 are unpredictable; E2 only occurs syllable-initially, but B3 can occur anywhere. This is a remnant of sound change; E2 used to represent /h/, which merged with /ʔ/ (represented by B3). It is word-dependent regarding which glyph goes where, but in informal contexts (and this is gaining acceptance), B3 is only written syllable-finally and E2 elsewhere.

Glyphs D4 and F2 are similar to B3 and E2; they are remnants of sound change, with F2 formerly representing /ŋ/ which merged with /n/. Either can occur in syllable-coda positions, but only D4 can occur in syllable-onset positions. They are undergoing the same process as B3 and E2, with D4 generally being written in the onset and F2 in the coda.

Here is an example of two different writing styles. The first is formal writing, as demonstrated by the glyph shape, the boustrophedon pattern and the orthographical irregularities. The second is informal, with different glyph shapes (D3 is unrecognizable), a left-to-right pattern and a more regular orthography.

Image

Transcription wrote:
ón qéteha hótleha nósi.
xá équeha, xá péreha.
mó qáraha, mó tlápeha nósi.
xá anásen xacót cua, xá péreha nósi.
áya ahéquel incót cua, xá équeha nósi.
éseha nósi.
mó apéren, mó atéchahen mocót ra éseha e t'óc


Punctuation: Basically, the thing that looks like a dash marks a new sentence, much like a period. The thing that looks like a colon introduces a new clause within the sentence; it precedes any clause that is not the first main clause.

I should note that stress marking within the script is not always the same as the actual stress patterns; stress is also marked, especially on particles, in order to disambiguate; for instance, the negative particle <xa> is always unstressed but is written <xá> within the script to distinguish it from <xe>, which is also unstressed (though written <xé>) and signifies regret about what you're saying (no idea what that's called). I have marked the transcription according to the conventions within the script itself, to avoid confusion.

Any questions? It's a bit more complex than the average conscript and I'm sure I forgot to clarify something.

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Last edited by Risla on Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:23 pm 
Avisaru
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Pretty scripty!

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:45 pm 
Avisaru
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(also inserting the contents of this post into the above post, so if this seems redundant I've already done that)

I was dumb and forgot to give a transcription of what the thing says!

Rapal ma Hani wrote:
ón qéteha hótleha nósi.
xá équeha, xá péreha.
mó qáraha, mó tlápeha nósi.
xá anásen xacót cua, xá péreha nósi.
áya ahéquel incót cua, xá équeha nósi.
éseha nósi.
mó apéren, mó atéchahen mocót ra éseha e t'óc


Also forgot to cover punctuation. Basically, the thing that looks like a dash marks a new sentence, much like a period. The thing that looks like a colon introduces a new clause within the sentence; it precedes any clause that is not the first main clause.

I should note that stress marking within the script is not always the same as the actual stress patterns; stress is also marked, especially on particles, in order to disambiguate; for instance, the negative particle <xa> is always unstressed but is written <xá> within the script to distinguish it from <xe>, which is also unstressed (though written <xé>) and signifies regret about what you're saying (no idea what that's called). I have marked the transcription according to the conventions within the script itself, to avoid confusion.

EDIT: By the way, I forgot something huge about the phonotactics and allophony: morpheme-finally, almost all clusters of /Cw/ (minus /pw mw ww/) are permitted, although the [w] is only realized preceding a vowel in the same word (generally a derivational morpheme or verb conjugation).

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:28 am 
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rickardspaghetti wrote:
Pretty scripty!


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:29 pm 
Avisaru
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Risla Amahendir wrote:
Image
Code:
     1    2    3    4    5

A    p    t    k    q    ts

B    tʃ   tɬ   ʔ    kw   pʼ

C    tʼ   kʼ   qʼ   tsʼ  tʃʼ

D    tɬʼ  kʼw  m    n    s

E    ʃ    ʔ    ɾ    l    j

F    w    n    a    e    Ø

Image
Rapal ma Hani wrote:
ón qéteha hótleha nósi.
xá équeha, xá péreha.
mó qáraha, mó tlápeha nósi.
xá anásen xacót cua, xá péreha nósi.
áya ahéquel incót cua, xá équeha nósi.
éseha nósi.
mó apéren, mó atéchahen mocót ra éseha e t'óc
Well, as far as looks go, I like it a lot.
The phonotactics and allophony look well-worked-out to me. At any rate they are both more explicit and more realistic than many conlangs'. ZBBers who understand such things better than I may have noticed details too fine for my eyes that you might have wanted help with.

Risla Amahendir wrote:
It is written either left to right (in informal contexts) or boustrophedon (in formal documents).
....
Here is an example of two different writing styles. The first is formal writing, as demonstrated by the glyph shape, the boustrophedon pattern and the orthographical irregularities. The second is informal, with different glyph shapes (D3 is unrecognizable), a left-to-right pattern and a more regular orthography.
....
I like that! 8)
Risla Amahendir wrote:
@bricka: Thanks, although I am vaguely alarmed as to how you not only know my first name (though I probably posted it here somewhere) but know which diminutive not to call me. :P
If you don't mind telling us the full form of your personal name or praenomen or "Christian" name; is it Rebecca or Rebekah or what? And should we assume the probability that no diminutive is acceptable, or is there in fact a surprisingly acceptable one?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:56 pm 
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I like the informal script - it's aesthetically pleasing, but has enough straight lines that it's not too much like Tengwar. :P


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:07 pm 
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Astraios wrote:
I like the informal script - it's aesthetically pleasing, but has enough straight lines that it's not too much like Tengwar. :P


Scripts that have a Tengwar likeness to them I love because Tengwar is one of my faves.

Image

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:08 pm 
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When printed, it looks like Aurukbesh(sp?), but then morphs into a Tengwar-Aurukbesh hybrid when cursive.

I kinda like it.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:21 pm 
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I like the cursive variant; it could look really nice with the right calligraphy.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:44 pm 
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Thanks, everyone!

Some things I forgot to mention:

The formal script is generally written into bamboo slats (much like this) by pyrography; the uniform character size with no ascenders or descenders and the angular shape of the letters are well suited to this. This variant is also used in stone carving. As a rule, anything that is supposed to hold up over time is written in this script: signs, declarations, religious texts, philosophy, etcetera.

The informal script, on the other hand, is written with brushes and soot ink or ink made from crushed zalima leaves (a plant similar to henna) on various materials, most commonly bamboo linen and palm leaves but not uncommonly on other things, including skin (there is a stereotype of scholars always having things written all over their arms). It is written much more quickly than the formal script, and is used for things like notes, letters, labels and other things not meant to last for a long time.

There are exceptions to this, of course, especially over time; many old copies of the rapal ma hani (for instance), which is a very important religious text (I used the first couple paragraphs as the sample text), were written with ink in cursive onto dried stalks of bamboo which were then varnished, generally written in a spiral around the stalk. This occurred hundreds of years before modern South Eresia, before literacy became commonplace, but even in Old Eresia there was a distinction between the two scripts which can also be found throughout modern North Eresia. Modern copies of this text, in particular, are often created in the same way and this style, called aqiryalen cua mop'ancuih (literally "it is painted on large bamboo stalks") is common with poetry and some other literary styles, even though the stalks are heavy and hard to transport so in general writing like this is impractical. It is notable that this style would have been written boustrophedon as well if it were not one single line of flowing text; the left-to-right style only came about with the advent of widespread literacy, when it became accepted that left-to-right is easier. It is actually not uncommon for people, especially left-handed people, to write right-to-left in a mirror image of the left-to-right text, but left-to-right is much more common.

I'd actually like to get my hands on a decently wide stalk of bamboo and write some stuff on it in this style, but that'll probably be difficult. :P

Edit: I hinted at the orthography differences too, but allow me to clarify how they work:

There is no real standard. There are three major orthography systems, which I will call historical, phonetic and mixed. The historical system is the least used but generally has higher prestige; it writes out all the historical morphemes, allophony and sound change be damned. The phonetic system is the one used in the cursive text above, with regular rules for when different characters occur; if words sound the same, they are written the same. The mixed system is in use in the printed text; regular inflections and certain common words are written like the historical system and allophony is not written, but for the most part it follows the phonetic standard. On the whole, the historical system is seen as extremely stuffy and indecipherable, the mixed system is formal and the phonetic system is casual or, sometimes, uneducated. The mixed system tends to have the most variations within it.

@THC: Feel free to call me Rebecca. I mostly dislike diminutives but hold a special dislike of "Becky." :P

Also, "looks like Tengwar" is a joke, guys. People used to accuse other people of their scripts looking like Tengwar all the time on this forum. Either that's fallen out of style now, people just missed it or it really does look like Tengwar but I don't think it does; aside from having copious ascenders and descenders, the letter shapes are generally different and it has no diacritics.

By the way, what the hell would a script like this be called? An abjad (since most vowels are omitted)? An abugida? (since the vowels, though their values are omitted, are either implied or not implied)? An alphabet? (since there are distinct glyphs for vowels and consonants)? An alphabjadugida?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:12 pm 
Avisaru
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Perhaps I should deliver some more constructive critisism rather than just "pretty scripty". Hmm...
I really like the way it looks. It has a somewhat primitive appearance; something you could find on a clay tablet or a runestone. At the same time it has a sophisticated and civilised feel about it. I could imagine this script looking good in a formal document written by typewriter. It looks very Earthlike too. I wouldn't be surprised if this alphabet had developed from Greek. Simple straight lines; comfortable for the hand.
The informal hand looks very nice too. Smooth lines with both ascenders and descenders. It looks like a love letter. This alphabet is most definitely one of the best I've seen so far. I'm really excited for what you'll do with it next. :)

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:46 pm 
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Thank you! Versatility was one of my main goals in creating this script (and every script I make), and it's definitely nice to know that that shows. I will probably post the script this one descended from (and some of that one's other descendants) in the future, but for now I'm mostly interested in getting South Eresian documented fully. :)

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:16 pm 
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The informal script is very beautiful, with a nice mix of swishing curves and straight edges. The formal script also has its strengths.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:01 pm 
Avisaru
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It kind of does look like Tengwar, tho. It's not just that it has a lot of descenders, they also have that long swashy shape. And some of the other shapes are somewhat Tengwar-like too.

But yeah, pretty scripty.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:05 pm 
Avisaru
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Well, if you're going by that shape, you might as well just say that my handwriting looks like Tengwar. :P

I'm actually writing up a really cursive variant right now to give an idea of how much this script can vary from person to person. I should have it scanned in in a couple minutes.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:09 pm 
Avisaru
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Why does it have two symbols for /?/ and only two symbols for vowels?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:38 pm 
Avisaru
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I (in the main post) wrote:
Glyphs B3 and E2 are unpredictable; E2 only occurs syllable-initially, but B3 can occur anywhere. This is a remnant of sound change; E2 used to represent /h/, which merged with /ʔ/ (represented by B3). It is word-dependent regarding which glyph goes where, but in informal contexts (and this is gaining acceptance), B3 is only written syllable-finally and E2 elsewhere.


I wrote:
Glyphs F3 and F4 are the vowels. These can also be followed by glyph F5 to change them to representing /o i/ respectively. The vowels are only written in stressed syllables.

8)

Also, here is it in even cursivier cursive. I was too lazy to go downstairs and bludgeon my scanner into working, so I took a picture of it on my craptastic webcam. If anyone would like to see it more clearly, I'll be willing to oblige.

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I forgot to include a <xá> because I am dumb, but you can figure it out.

(By the way, happy birthday, WeepingElf!)

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:44 pm 
Avisaru
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