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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:50 pm 
Sumerul
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Very nice! :D


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:54 pm 
Avisaru
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rickardspaghetti wrote:
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I have no idea what that's supposed to mean. 8)

@Astraios: Thanks.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:48 pm 
Lebom
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rickardspaghetti wrote:
Image


This.

I also love the simplicity of it. It has this elegance about it that I love. Simply put a simple elegant pretty scripty. I also love that it has a history about it too.

Have you tried writing it on parchment? And I love the cursive version too.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:19 pm 
Avisaru
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Well, if you look at how it works it's not very simple at all. :mrgreen: But thanks.

I have about a quarter of the sound changes from Proto-Noro-Eresian written down. I should be able to have them documented here tomorrow (I hope), and then we'll get into grammar.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:41 am 
Avisaru
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The handwritten version is very I-really-need-a-complementary-adjective-which-is-different-from-"nice"-here; it has just the kind of this-could-easily-be-an-actual-script look that I keep trying for and fail to achieve. Pay thyself on thy back!

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:50 am 
Avisaru
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Risla Amahendir wrote:
rickardspaghetti wrote:
Image

I have no idea what that's supposed to mean. 8)


It means "awesomeness".

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:16 pm 
Avisaru
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Risla Amahendir wrote:
The informal script, on the other hand, is written with brushes and soot ink or ink made from crushed zalima leaves (a plant similar to henna) on various materials, most commonly bamboo linen and palm leaves but not uncommonly on other things, including skin (there is a stereotype of scholars always having things written all over their arms).
About that, and also other stuff I snipped out to save space by not repeating it:
Neat! 8)

Risla Amahendir wrote:
@THC: Feel free to call me Rebecca. I mostly dislike diminutives but hold a special dislike of "Becky." :P
Will do.

Risla Amahendir wrote:
Also, "looks like Tengwar" is a joke, guys.
Well, I thought it was funny!

Risla Amahendir wrote:
By the way, what the hell would a script like this be called? An abjad (since most vowels are omitted)? An abugida? (since the vowels, though their values are omitted, are either implied or not implied)? An alphabet? (since there are distinct glyphs for vowels and consonants)? An alphabjadugida?
I so move; this type of script should be called henceforth an "alphabjadugida".


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:18 pm 
Avisaru
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The cursive script is Teh AWESOME-SAUCE!!! :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:28 am 
Lebom
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TaylorS wrote:
The cursive script is Teh AWESOME-SAUCE!!! :mrgreen:


*^^* Cuuuute! :mrgreen:

It is though. I can see a bunch of calligraphic styles coming from this.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:34 am 
Smeric
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We need to pitch in and buy him a Bamboo pad so he can make a TTF font for this!

Image

See what you made me do?

It's awesome, the block style would look great carved into stone, and the second would look great as a "historical" document type script. The third is very similar to cursive Cyrillic, and would be the everyday sort of writing that is taught in schools. (Just from my perspective)

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:45 am 
Lebom
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Bristel wrote:
We need to pitch in and buy him a Bamboo pad so he can make a TTF font for this!

Image

See what you made me do?

It's awesome, the block style would look great carved into stone, and the second would look great as a "historical" document type script. The third is very similar to cursive Cyrillic, and would be the everyday sort of writing that is taught in schools. (Just from my perspective)


AMEN! AMEN!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:31 am 
Avisaru
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I actually HAVE a Bamboo tablet, I've lost my pen though and don't really know how to make fonts.

The cursive variant is just a variety of the informal script which isn't really overly practical; it's generally not legible when written with a brush on the materials usually used in informal writing in South Eresia.* I mostly just wrote it up to demonstrate that not every single literate South Eresian speaker has the same handwriting!

*They don't really have paper, although there is a culture not too far away that does make use of it and they know about it; there's generally a taboo in SE on making things out of wood, for religious reasons. Perhaps they could make a papyrus-like substance out of bamboo, or use fallen tree branches (which are not taboo)? I'll have to research it.

(and I'm female!)

@Tom: I was actually starting to lean towards abjagidabet. :P

Also, all this praise is making my ego inflate. Soon it will explode and all of you will be covered in small bits of ego.

The sound changes should be done shortly. I'll try to have them up by 3:30PM CST.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:46 pm 
Avisaru
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I'd call it an alphabet. Not fully vocalized though.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:26 pm 
Avisaru
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tbh, it's hard to say; I'm actually leaning towards classifying it as an abjad, myself, although it's definitely got some features of abugidas and of alphabets.

Presenting...
Proto-Noro-Eresian: a very, very basic phonology!

/m n ŋ/
/p t k kʷ q qʷ ʔ/
/ɸ s ɬ χ χʷ h/
/w l j ʕ/
/a i ɨ u ə/

Syllable structure: (C)V(V)(C)

antepenultimate stress

Sound changes, using assorted bits of notation that I've picked up from all over / made up myself. Not all necessarily even in the right order, since I grouped things by relevance to each other, but they should get you to the same basic phonology as SE. The subscript numbers refer to sounds by their place in the segment in question, so [C1C2] > [C2 means that, for instance [qs#] -> [s#]. I should really learn standard notation for this stuff.

I'll be swapping around these sound changes within the next few days if I catch anything I forgot or don't like, so consider these very incomplete. Please tell me if you catch something implausible or find something that is not consistent with South Eresian phonology.

[-stressed] -> 0 / C1_C1

[+high] > [-high] / [+uvular]_, _[+uvular]
[-low, -back] > [+back] / [+uvular, +labialized]_, _[+uvular, +labialized]

[ɸ] > [h] _C, _#
[ɸ] > [p]

[h ʔ] > [0] / _#

[ʕl, lʕ] > [ʟ]
[l] > [ɾ] / V_V
[ʟ] > [l]

[iV1] > [jV1V1

[χ] > [h] / _[V / j]
[χʷ] > [hʷ] / [_V / j]

[hj sj hʷj] > [ʃ]

[χ] > 0
[χʷ] > [w]

[ə] > [a] / [+stress]
[ə] > 0

[[t/ʔ]F(+coronal)] > /+affricate/

[ɬ] > [l] / V_V
[ɬ] > [tɬ]

[ɨ] > [u] / _[+labial / +labialized]
[ɨ] > [i]

[a(-stress)w] > [o]
[a(-stress)j] > [e]
[a(-stress)] > [o] / _[+labialized]

[[+plosive / +affricate]ʔ] > [+ejective]

[V1ʕ] > [V1V1]

[ʕ] > 0

[C1C2] > [C2]

[V1V1] > [V1]

[qʷ] > [kʷ]
[kʷ] > [k] / _#
[kʷ] > [kw]

[u (+stress)] > [o]

[Cu (-stress)] > [Cʷ] / _#
[+high, -stress] > 0 / C_C

[ŋ] > [n] / _V

[h] > [ʔ]

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:26 pm 
Sumerul
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Risla Amahendir wrote:
[ʕl, lʕ] > [ʟ]
[l] > [ɾ] / V_V
[ʟ] > [l]

You probably mean [ɫ], not [ʟ]. And I've never heard of a lateral spontaneously depharyngealizing like that, but I guess it could happen.

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Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:19 pm 
Avisaru
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Yeah, thanks, I wrote that as shorthand and forgot about it. Pharyngealization > velarization > 0 doesn't seem implausible at all to me, but I'll look through the Correspondences thread to see if it's attested; otherwise I'll figure out another way to achieve the same goal:

Some other shit I forgot (with pretty colors because I am sleep-deprived and just spelled "with" as "whith"):

[Cu (-stress)] > [Cʷ] / _# should be [Cu (-stress)] > [Cw] / _#

[u] > [o] / #_ should be inserted, matched with [u (+stress)] > [o]

[VV] -> [VʔV] should be inserted, matched with [V1V1] > [V1]

Once I get this stuff inserted into an SCA I should be able to iron out the rest of the kinks.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:38 pm 
Avisaru
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Working on refining the sound changes now. They should be up later today, and then I'll have to refine them more, I'm sure.

Also, I found my tablet pen! I was looking for something else and there it was. I also found a very substantial amount of money and my blood glucose meter. Didn't find what I was looking for, but that's fine.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:48 pm 
Avisaru
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Working on fixing the sound changes now. ASCA currently produces something that looks vaguely like Inuktitut minus vowels, which is not quite my intention. I'm going to revise the allophony too and move some of the rules to the sound changes. I'll also have a prosody section up soon, but I'm really not very informed regarding prosody so it might be noobish; still better than nothing at all.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:56 pm 
Avisaru
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While I neglect both my diachronics and my schoolwork, allow me to ramble even more about the script: specifically, its irregularities, since I asked Neek about it here, I figured I might as well answer some of the questions I asked him.

Glyph E5 (which coincidentally looks extremely similar to its Roman equivalent) is very often used to represent unstressed /i/, mostly word-initially (and occasionally elsewhere). This is nonstandard and more common in the writings of less-educated people, and is widely agreed to be analogous to the irregular orthography for the 3PP inanimate indirect verb prefix /i-/, which is standardly written as E5 to disambiguate it from the 3PS inanimate indirect verb prefix /a-/. The 3PP absolutive suffix /-i/ also takes this, but this has the basis of historically being /-ej/ and the spelling is retained to disambiguate it from the 1PS absolutive suffix /-e/.

Not too dissimilarly, the phone [u], phonemically /ow/, is occasionally written F1 or F1F5, even when stressed. This is very nonstandard and there is a bit of a stigma against writing it this way rather than F3F5F1F5 as would be the standard manner of writing it.

I should note that the Roman orthography exists only for the purposes of my notes; even when the words are spelled irregularly in the native script, they are regular and consistent in the Roman transcription except when I am using it to talk about nonstandard spellings, and then it should be clear when I'm doing that. Therefore, its conventions are purely my aesthetic standards rather than positing some historical basis.

I also have a character-by-character transcription method describing the native orthography where I can't use it that would allow for easy conversion into a font, but that looks rather like Klingon with clicks or something and I am disinclined to use it in a more general setting:

Direct Orthographical Transcription wrote:
we -QasT / lclas e xH .
we tnakl- m : -nasl- t/ poqN / hwox- y sah .
we tnakl- m : tfapl- qets- .
xi tmihl- m : oN -nasl- qets- e -Nqar .

Standard Roman Transcription wrote:
Ve aq'aset cua lachilása e xóh
Ve tenáquel ma anásel tecua póqen havóx ya sáha.
Ve tenáquel ma tetlápel qétos.
Xi temíhel ma on anásel qétos e onqára.

(in the direct transcription I treat F3F5 <o> and F4F5 <i> as single glyphs for simplicity's sake)

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:53 pm 
Avisaru
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Rather than doing anything useful, I've spent the last few hours working on a calligraphic font. The first three characters, capital D, G and H, are embellished, word-final versions of glyphs C1, C2 and B3 respectively. You should be able to figure out the rest of it on your own, although it's not quite systematic. I'll be screwing around with it to make the methods of typing it a bit more logical, but for now it IS fully functional.

Although I do need to add numbers. I'll get on that. I haven't actually displayed those here at all yet, though.

EDEET: A sample of the font, using the same text as I've been using:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:14 pm 
Avisaru
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Looks like Hebrew.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:16 pm 
Avisaru
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That was sort of the goal of this font. The effect is achieved by making the horizontal lines the thickest and vertical lines the thinnest. I'm generally a fan of how Hebrew calligraphy looks, so I decided to imitate it a bit.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:55 am 
Avisaru
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It looks most intriguing. All you need for the complete Hebrew orthographic experience is the pointing, and your uncle will be called Robert.

Seriously, it's very good.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:24 pm 
Sanci
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How the hell could I miss this.... Well, well. Anyway, the second writing style, the informal, really rubs me the right way. It was just plain....beautiful.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:17 am 
Avisaru
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Thanks! I didn't expect anyone to bump this up.

I have now written a post on inflectional morphology, pronouns and prepositions in South Eresian. Grammar! Finally!

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