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zompist bboard • View topic - South Eresian (with a bit of grammar!)

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:50 pm 
Sumerul
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Very nice! :D


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:54 pm 
Avisaru
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:48 pm 
Lebom
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:19 pm 
Avisaru
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Well, if you look at how it works it's not very simple at all. :mrgreen: But thanks.

I have about a quarter of the sound changes from Proto-Noro-Eresian written down. I should be able to have them documented here tomorrow (I hope), and then we'll get into grammar.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:41 am 
Avisaru
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The handwritten version is very I-really-need-a-complementary-adjective-which-is-different-from-"nice"-here; it has just the kind of this-could-easily-be-an-actual-script look that I keep trying for and fail to achieve. Pay thyself on thy back!


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:50 am 
Avisaru
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そうだ。死んでいる人も勃起することが出来る。
俺はその証だ。


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:16 pm 
Avisaru
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:18 pm 
Avisaru
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The cursive script is Teh AWESOME-SAUCE!!! :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:28 am 
Lebom
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:34 am 
Smeric
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We need to pitch in and buy him a Bamboo pad so he can make a TTF font for this!



See what you made me do?

It's awesome, the block style would look great carved into stone, and the second would look great as a "historical" document type script. The third is very similar to cursive Cyrillic, and would be the everyday sort of writing that is taught in schools. (Just from my perspective)

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[bɹ̠ˤʷɪs.təɫ]
Nōn quālibet inīquā cupiditāte illectus hoc agō
Yo te pongo en tu lugar...
Taisc mach Daró


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:45 am 
Lebom
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:31 am 
Avisaru
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I actually HAVE a Bamboo tablet, I've lost my pen though and don't really know how to make fonts.

The cursive variant is just a variety of the informal script which isn't really overly practical; it's generally not legible when written with a brush on the materials usually used in informal writing in South Eresia.* I mostly just wrote it up to demonstrate that not every single literate South Eresian speaker has the same handwriting!

*They don't really have paper, although there is a culture not too far away that does make use of it and they know about it; there's generally a taboo in SE on making things out of wood, for religious reasons. Perhaps they could make a papyrus-like substance out of bamboo, or use fallen tree branches (which are not taboo)? I'll have to research it.

(and I'm female!)

@Tom: I was actually starting to lean towards abjagidabet. :P

Also, all this praise is making my ego inflate. Soon it will explode and all of you will be covered in small bits of ego.

The sound changes should be done shortly. I'll try to have them up by 3:30PM CST.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:46 pm 
Avisaru
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I'd call it an alphabet. Not fully vocalized though.

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そうだ。死んでいる人も勃起することが出来る。
俺はその証だ。


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:26 pm 
Avisaru
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tbh, it's hard to say; I'm actually leaning towards classifying it as an abjad, myself, although it's definitely got some features of abugidas and of alphabets.

Presenting...
Proto-Noro-Eresian: a very, very basic phonology!

/m n ŋ/
/p t k kʷ q qʷ ʔ/
/ɸ s ɬ χ χʷ h/
/w l j ʕ/
/a i ɨ u ə/

Syllable structure: (C)V(V)(C)

antepenultimate stress

Sound changes, using assorted bits of notation that I've picked up from all over / made up myself. Not all necessarily even in the right order, since I grouped things by relevance to each other, but they should get you to the same basic phonology as SE. The subscript numbers refer to sounds by their place in the segment in question, so [CC] > [C means that, for instance [qs#] -> [s#]. I should really learn standard notation for this stuff.

I'll be swapping around these sound changes within the next few days if I catch anything I forgot or don't like, so consider these very incomplete. Please tell me if you catch something implausible or find something that is not consistent with South Eresian phonology.

[-stressed] -> 0 / C_C

[+high] > [-high] / [+uvular]_, _[+uvular]
[-low, -back] > [+back] / [+uvular, +labialized]_, _[+uvular, +labialized]

[ɸ] > [h] _C, _#
[ɸ] > [p]

[h ʔ] > [0] / _#

[ʕl, lʕ] > [ʟ]
[l] > [ɾ] / V_V
[ʟ] > [l]

[iV] > [jVV

[χ] > [h] / _[V / j]
[χʷ] > [hʷ] / [_V / j]

[hj sj hʷj] > [ʃ]

[χ] > 0
[χʷ] > [w]

[ə] > [a] / [+stress]
[ə] > 0

[[t/ʔ]F(+coronal)] > /+affricate/

[ɬ] > [l] / V_V
[ɬ] > [tɬ]

[ɨ] > [u] / _[+labial / +labialized]
[ɨ] > [i]

[a(-stress)w] > [o]
[a(-stress)j] > [e]
[a(-stress)] > [o] / _[+labialized]

[[+plosive / +affricate]ʔ] > [+ejective]

[Vʕ] > [VV]

[ʕ] > 0

[CC] > [C]

[VV] > [V]

[qʷ] > [kʷ]
[kʷ] > [k] / _#
[kʷ] > [kw]

[u (+stress)] > [o]

[Cu (-stress)] > [Cʷ] / _#
[+high, -stress] > 0 / C_C

[ŋ] > [n] / _V

[h] > [ʔ]

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:26 pm 
Sumerul
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Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:19 pm 
Avisaru
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Yeah, thanks, I wrote that as shorthand and forgot about it. Pharyngealization > velarization > 0 doesn't seem implausible at all to me, but I'll look through the Correspondences thread to see if it's attested; otherwise I'll figure out another way to achieve the same goal:

Some other shit I forgot (with pretty colors because I am sleep-deprived and just spelled "with" as "whith"):

[Cu (-stress)] > [Cʷ] / _# should be [Cu (-stress)] > [Cw] / _#

[u] > [o] / #_ should be inserted, matched with [u (+stress)] > [o]

[VV] -> [VʔV] should be inserted, matched with [V1V1] > [V1]

Once I get this stuff inserted into an SCA I should be able to iron out the rest of the kinks.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:38 pm 
Avisaru
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Working on refining the sound changes now. They should be up later today, and then I'll have to refine them more, I'm sure.

Also, I found my tablet pen! I was looking for something else and there it was. I also found a very substantial amount of money and my blood glucose meter. Didn't find what I was looking for, but that's fine.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:48 pm 
Avisaru
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Working on fixing the sound changes now. ASCA currently produces something that looks vaguely like Inuktitut minus vowels, which is not quite my intention. I'm going to revise the allophony too and move some of the rules to the sound changes. I'll also have a prosody section up soon, but I'm really not very informed regarding prosody so it might be noobish; still better than nothing at all.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:56 pm 
Avisaru
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:53 pm 
Avisaru
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Rather than doing anything useful, I've spent the last few hours working on a . The first three characters, capital D, G and H, are embellished, word-final versions of glyphs C1, C2 and B3 respectively. You should be able to figure out the rest of it on your own, although it's not quite systematic. I'll be screwing around with it to make the methods of typing it a bit more logical, but for now it IS fully functional.

Although I do need to add numbers. I'll get on that. I haven't actually displayed those here at all yet, though.

EDEET: A sample of the font, using the same text as I've been using:


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:14 pm 
Avisaru
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Looks like Hebrew.

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そうだ。死んでいる人も勃起することが出来る。
俺はその証だ。


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:16 pm 
Avisaru
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That was sort of the goal of this font. The effect is achieved by making the horizontal lines the thickest and vertical lines the thinnest. I'm generally a fan of how Hebrew calligraphy looks, so I decided to imitate it a bit.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:55 am 
Avisaru
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It looks most intriguing. All you need for the complete Hebrew orthographic experience is the pointing, and your uncle will be called Robert.

Seriously, it's very good.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:24 pm 
Sanci
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How the hell could I miss this.... Well, well. Anyway, the second writing style, the informal, really rubs me the right way. It was just plain....beautiful.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:17 am 
Avisaru
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Thanks! I didn't expect anyone to bump this up.

I have now written a in South Eresian. Grammar! Finally!

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