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zompist bboard • View topic - Omnipredicativity and Other Issues

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:41 pm 
Lebom
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I read (on Wikipedia which probably doesn't really count) that Nahuatl has an interesting property called "omnipredicativity" which means that not only do nouns mean for instance "knife" but also "is a knife".

This picqued my curiosity because I was interested in not having any copulas in Lethwîn. It seems to me though that if nouns are predicates, and there is no real distinction between subjects and predicates than there would be no true distinction in morphology between the two. Does anyone know if that's the case?

If so, it ruins the complex verb - simpler noun distinction I was making in my language. So if omnipredicativity would indeed mean that subjects and predicates are alike even morphologically then I will abandon that.

Secondly, in Native American languages or polysynthetic languages there seems to be a lack of verbal nouns, and even though I intend for Lethwîn to be verb-centric I would like to allow for verbal nouns to occur. But the only problem I see is perhaps some sort of issue with redundancy. For instance to make a verbal noun in Lethwîn I was thinking of taking the root uninflected and incorporating an affix making it a noun. And once this noun is officially a noun, I wonder if it should be incorporated into a verb (because verbs do incorporate nouns ikn Lethwîn). But if I do incorporate a verbal noun into a verb I feel it would be sloppy, for lack of a better word. Or perhaps verbal nouns will constitute their own closed category?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:57 pm 
Avisaru
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"Omnipredicativity" just sounds like the , as in e.g. Russian (see link):

Moskva gorod
Moscow city
‘Moscow is a city.’

I'm not sure how this is related to the Lakota phenomenon of not distinguishing verbs and nouns. The giant Lakota conspiracy here will jump in about that soon. (And probably jump on me for spelling Lakhota/Dakota/whatever wrong too.)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:07 pm 
Lebom
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Zero copula I thought was sort of different. Where a zero copula is understood as a copula without one there, a language without a verb/noun distinction or rather a language where nouns are predicates means that a copula functionally doesn't exist. But perhaps this means that all nouns and verbs are built in with some sort of copulatic understanding?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:14 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:12 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:42 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:42 pm 
Lebom
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Hey that's cool, I have creaky vowels in Lethwîn too, however there isn't a necessary preceding consonant. It doesn't have much to do with the thread, but I needed to point that out.

Lethwîn has creaky, breathy and modal vowels distinguished by two lengths.

But anyway, your language that I have seen thus far is unique. Especially the notion of stance. Its quite good.

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