zompist bboard

WE ARE MOVING - see Ephemera
It is currently Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:38 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Conlang "Miwonša"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:02 pm 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:33 am
Posts: 81
Hello people,
I'd like to present you my conlang Miwonša. It's not 100% complete, but the most essential parts of grammar are done, so I don't want to wait any longer.

http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/Miwonsa
http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/Miwon%C5% ... phology%29
http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/Miwon%C5% ... phology%29


Actually I don't want to ask whether or not you like the phonology, the grammar etc., as all this is extremely subjective (and you cannot argue about personal tastes), but I'd be really intested in what associations you have corcerning the sound, the conscript and the grammar and maybe which parts of the explanations are not clear enough.
;)


Sample text

Old Miwonša: Tahonti kišanwe pišoi ya milwa skunukoi ya piskwokak nanstwaran. Sjaku piro tunšwak ya thažansak kwan, wanjo kwasjakan yonženalwanti khonanswokai paiwašinjazak.

[ta'hõtɕi kiʃã'we pi'ʃoɪ ja 'miɬwa 'skunukoɪ ja 'piskwokak 'nãstwarã. sja'ku 'piro 'tũʃwak ja tʼa'ʒãsak kwã, 'waɲo kwa'sjakã jõʒe'naɬwãtɕi kʼo'nãswokaɪ paɪwaʃi'ɲazak]

New Miwonša: Tahonti kišanwe piši ya milwa žuk skuni ya piskwai nanstwaran. Sjaku piro aš tunšwaš ya thažansaš kwan, wanjo kwasjakan yonžalwanti žuk khonswai paiwašizjak.



"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood."


Last edited by Plusquamperfekt on Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Conlang "Miwonša"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:08 pm 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:33 am
Posts: 81
Summary of grammar or everything you need to know


Attachments:
·summarygrammar.PNG
·summarygrammar.PNG [ 40.42 KiB | Viewed 4481 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Conlang "Miwonša"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:22 pm 
Lebom
Lebom
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:01 pm
Posts: 85
the writing sample looks like something out of star trek. how are you supposed to read that? mongolian-style?

_________________
scientists have discovered a capsule that makes you not a gullible fucktard!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Conlang "Miwonša"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:58 pm 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:33 am
Posts: 81
It's more or less an alphasyllabary in which one block can either represent one syllable with up to 6 sounds (CCCVVC) or two syllables with up to 10 sounds (CCCVV.CCCVV). More instructions on the wiki page... (reading direction left>right, up>down / inside one block it's sometimes a bit more complicated...)

And thanks for the star trek comment... that's exactly the look I intended ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Conlang "Miwonša"
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:08 pm 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:33 am
Posts: 81
Another sample text:


Luičan maco maya, čwana-čwana prikwoi kwančo macoi thaspimanči. Cwonuro luzoi, hanras fišanšišanti, antso šiyo kwan fazja puinja fanskoi thunhok. Uluiči khezanfiman iworoi thara šelak, mayoči kwonšišanš: Fanski thunhok čwičwi kjaniman.



Luičan mac-o may-a, čwana-čwana prikw-oi kwanč-o mac-oi thasp-im-an-či. Cwon-ur-o luz-oi, hanr-as fišanš-iš-an-ti, ants-o šiyo kw-an fazja puinj-a fansk-oi thunh-ok. Ul-ui-či khezanf-im-an iw-or-oi thar-a šel-ak, mayo-či kwonš-iš-an-š: Fansk-i thunh-ok čwičwi kjan-im-an.

Prince little-INT.SG 1SG-GEN, bit.by.bit sad-ACC.SG life.INT.SG little-ACC.SG understand-1SG-NINF-PERF.PAST. Time-LOC-INT.SG long-ACC.SG, REF-DAT divert-2SG-NINF-SPN, nothing-INT 2SG.DAT be-NINF except tenderness-INT.SG setting-GEN.PL sun-GEN.SG. DET-ACC-PERF.PAST learn-1SG-NINF morning-LOC-ACC.SG day-INT.SG four-GEN.SG, 1SG.DAT-PERF.PAST say-2SG-NINF-PTCP: Setting-ACC.PL sun-GEN.SG very love-1SG-NINF.

Oh little prince, bit by bit I came to understand your sad little life. For a long time, your only entertainment had been the pleasure of watching sunsets. I learned that new detail on the morning of the foruth day, when you said to me: I am very fond of sunsets.


Last edited by Plusquamperfekt on Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Conlang "Miwonša"
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:51 am 
Sumerul
Sumerul
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 12:35 pm
Posts: 3600
Location: Tokyo
One thing I noticed is that you don't seem to have decided whether to use <y> or <j> for /j/... And I don't know what's meant by the adverbial case – in one instance it even combines with the accusative! Other than that, fine.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Conlang "Miwonša"
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:27 am 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:33 am
Posts: 81
·not up to date anymore... :)


Last edited by Plusquamperfekt on Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Conlang "Miwonša"
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:30 am 
Sumerul
Sumerul

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:38 am
Posts: 2974
Location: Israel
Plusquamperfekt wrote:
The use of <j> and <y> is not arbitrary, but it has to do with syllabification. <j> is only used in the digraphs <lj, nj> and in complex onsets (like pj, kj, fj, sj etc.), whereas <y> is only used when it is the only consonant of the onset. Using two graphemes for /j/ is quite useful, as the following example shows:

<anya>: /ãja/
<anja>: /aɲa/
I would never have thought of that.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Conlang "Miwonša"
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:48 pm 
Lebom
Lebom
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:23 pm
Posts: 188
Plusquamperfekt wrote:
Maybe I simply should call that infix "adverbial case", as I haven't any language until now in which nouns can be in more than one case at the same time.

Apparently in Old Georgian you could do have more than one case marker on a noun, but they didn't combine into new cases, they just nested.

კაცისაჲ პური არს.
ḳac-isa-y ṗur-i ars.
man-GEN-NOM bread-NOM is
"It is the man's bread."

კაცისისაჲ მამასაჲ პური არს.
ḳac-is-isa-y mama-sa-y ṗur-i ars.
man-GEN-GEN-NOM father-GEN-NOM bread-NOM is
"It is the man's father's bread"

However, instead of glossing your example as:

piskw-ok-ak
dignity-ADV-GEN.S

Why don't you just call it (and all the combinations you listed) a separate case/postposition?

piskw-okak
dignity-CAUSAL

Astraios wrote:
I would never have thought of that.

If I'm understanding it correctly, Hungarian does basically the same thing, but backwards.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Conlang "Miwonša"
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:18 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:50 pm
Posts: 568
Location: California
ná'oolkiłí wrote:
Apparently in Old Georgian you could do have more than one case marker on a noun, but they didn't combine into new cases, they just nested.

კაცისაჲ პური არს.
ḳac-isa-y ṗur-i ars.
man-GEN-NOM bread-NOM is
"It is the man's bread."

Suffixaufnahme!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Conlang "Miwonša"
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:30 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 03, 2003 3:04 pm
Posts: 821
roninbodhisattva wrote:
ná'oolkiłí wrote:
Apparently in Old Georgian you could do have more than one case marker on a noun, but they didn't combine into new cases, they just nested.

კაცისაჲ პური არს.
ḳac-isa-y ṗur-i ars.
man-GEN-NOM bread-NOM is
"It is the man's bread."

Suffixaufnahme!


In Old Georgian? Surely you jest!

_________________
"It will not come by waiting for it. It will not be said, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is.' Rather, the Kingdom of the Father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it."
The Gospel of Thomas


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Conlang "Miwonša"
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:45 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:50 pm
Posts: 568
Location: California
Xephyr wrote:
roninbodhisattva wrote:
ná'oolkiłí wrote:
Apparently in Old Georgian you could do have more than one case marker on a noun, but they didn't combine into new cases, they just nested.

კაცისაჲ პური არს.
ḳac-isa-y ṗur-i ars.
man-GEN-NOM bread-NOM is
"It is the man's bread."

Suffixaufnahme!


In Old Georgian? Surely you jest!

...nope.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Conlang "Miwonša"
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:20 pm 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:33 am
Posts: 81
ná'oolkiłí wrote:
However, instead of glossing your example as:

piskw-ok-ak
dignity-ADV-GEN.S

Why don't you just call it (and all the combinations you listed) a separate case/postposition?

Because that would be simply not correct - two morphemes are two morphemes.

Quote:
piskw-okak
dignity-CAUSAL


Hasn't anyone wondered why I used the causal case there?! :P In fact, I had difficulties to decide whether I should the genitive or the instrumental case in that sentence, then I chose the genitive case, but forgot to delete the infix. I'll correct that later, the infix "ok" is absolutely wrong there. :D


BTW Does someone have an idea how I could make a beautiful font for my conscript?!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Conlang "Miwonša"
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:07 pm 
Sanci
Sanci

Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:16 pm
Posts: 53
Location: [hʉdʒaneːɾʷ]
Quote:
BTW Does someone have an idea how I could make a beautiful font for my conscript?!


This.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Conlang "Miwonša"
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:28 pm 
Smeric
Smeric
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:00 pm
Posts: 1630
Location: Braunschweig, Germany
roninbodhisattva wrote:
Xephyr wrote:
roninbodhisattva wrote:
ná'oolkiłí wrote:
Apparently in Old Georgian you could do have more than one case marker on a noun, but they didn't combine into new cases, they just nested.

კაცისაჲ პური არს.
ḳac-isa-y ṗur-i ars.
man-GEN-NOM bread-NOM is
"It is the man's bread."

Suffixaufnahme!


In Old Georgian? Surely you jest!

...nope.


Indeed, AFAIK, Old Georgian was the very first language where western linguists noticed this phenomenon, and a German linguist who wrote a grammar of Old Georgian, coined the term.

_________________
...brought to you by the Weeping Elf
Tha cvastam émi cvastam santham amal phelsa. -- Friedrich Schiller
ESTAR-3SG:P human-OBJ only human-OBJ true-OBJ REL-LOC play-3SG:A


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Conlang "Miwonša"
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:44 pm 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:33 am
Posts: 81
By the way, I have a question about my participles... Somehow I got the impression these are rather converbs - at least in the first sentence - what do you think? ;)


Swankai čwonišanš, nanšwimanča siwai.
newspaper-ACC.SG read-2SG-NINF-X, drink-1SG-NINF-PAST-IMPRF water-ACC.SG.
While you were reading the newspaper, I was drinking water.

Waškašan čwonanšo swankai nanšwanča siwai.
man-INT.SG read-NINF-X-ERG.SG newspaper-ACC.SG drink-NINF-PAST-PRF water-ACC.SG.
The man reading the newspaper is drinking water.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Conlang "Miwonša"
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:56 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 2:58 pm
Posts: 807
Plusquamperfekt wrote:
By the way, I have a question about my participles... Somehow I got the impression these are rather converbs - at least in the first sentence - what do you think? ;)


Swankai čwonišanš, nanšwimanča siwai.
newspaper-ACC.SG read-2SG-NINF-X, drink-1SG-NINF-PAST.IMP water-ACC.SG.
While you were reading the newspaper, I was drinking water.

Waškašan čwonanšo swankai nanšwanča siwai.
man-INT.SG read-NINF-X-ERG.SG newspaper-ACC.SG drink-NINF-PAST.PRF water-ACC.SG.
The man reading the newspaper is drinking water.


In the second example I'm pretty sure it's a participle. That's because the subordinate clause of which it is the nucleus, is a relative clause, used as if it were an adjective. So that non-finite verb-form is probably a verbal adjective, like participles are.

In the first, possibly a converb instead; at any rate, probably not a participle, but rather some other non-finite verb form. That's because the subordinate clause of which it is the nucleus, is an adjunct clause, used as if it were an adverb (a temporal/aspectual adverb). So that non-finite verb-form is likely to be a verbal some-other-part-of-speech-than-an-adjective, at least if your language distinguishes adjectives from adverbs.

In some languages, converbs and gerunds are basically the same thing; if your language is one of them, the non-finite verb-form which is the nucleus of the subordinate clause in the first example, might be both a gerund and a converb.

If your language makes no distinction between adjectives and adverbs, just lumping them all together as "modifiers", then maybe it also makes no distinction between relative clauses and adjunct clauses. If it doesn't distinguish between RCs and AdjunctCs, there may be no need to decide whether those non-finite verb-forms are participles or converbs.

Some languages make no distinction between adjectives and nouns; they lump them together as "substantives". If your language is one of those, maybe it doesn't distinguish between complement-clauses (subordinate clauses embedded as terms, as if they were nouns, in the clause they depend on), from relative clauses. If it doesn't distinguish complement clauses from relative clauses, maybe it doesn't distinguish between gerunds and participles. Again, depending on the particulars of your language, maybe there's no difference between participles and some other non-finite verbal form (such as converbs, or such as gerunds) in your language.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Conlang "Miwonša"
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:45 pm 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:33 am
Posts: 81
Wow, I really had to read your answer three times to understand it completely, but that was really helpful.
In fact, Miwonša distinguishes between adjectives and adverbs, as only adjectives have declensions, whereas adverbs don't. Furthermore, there are no predicative adjectives, but adjectival verbs:

Kwanhjan žufja nasta.
be-here-NINF car-INT.SG slow-INT.SG - This is a slow car.

Waškašano žufjai nasto luškan.
man-ERG.SG car-ACC.SG slow-ADV drive-NINF.
The man drives the car slowly.

Žufja naščiran.
Car slow-ADJ.VERB-NINF.
The car is slow.

Furthermore, there are also gerunds (or at least I call them gerunds)

Luškanzai žufjoi miwkiman.
Drive-NINF-GER-ACC.SG love-1SG-NINF.
I love driving cars.

OK let me try to summirize:

(1) converbs ( <anš> ) ≈ replace adverbial clauses/adjuncts
(2) participles ( <anš> + adjective ending ) ≈ replace relative clauses
(3) gerunds ( <anz> + case ending ) ≈ replace subject/object clauses/ (compulsory) arguments of the verb
(4) supines ( <anti> ) ≈ replace purpose clauses
(5) gerundives ( COP + <anti> ) ≈ replace "must"
(6) infinitives ≈ used with modal verbs and some other verbs that require subordinated verbs


Subordinated clauses are really the hardest part of conlanging when you don't want to use simply subjunctions and pronouns as in Indoeuropean languages :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Conlang "Miwonša"
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:59 pm 
Smeric
Smeric
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:00 pm
Posts: 1630
Location: Braunschweig, Germany
Miwonša rocks. The script also.

_________________
...brought to you by the Weeping Elf
Tha cvastam émi cvastam santham amal phelsa. -- Friedrich Schiller
ESTAR-3SG:P human-OBJ only human-OBJ true-OBJ REL-LOC play-3SG:A


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Conlang "Miwonša"
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:26 pm 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:33 am
Posts: 81
I proudly present my first conlang lesson. It is really easy and at the end you'll even find some exercises. Would be happy if someone tried out the exercises, maybe you'll even find some inspirations for your own conlangs ;)

http://miwonsa.wikia.com/wiki/Lesson_1


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Conlang "Miwonša"
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:53 pm 
Sanci
Sanci
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 12:26 pm
Posts: 20
Location: the coast of Merustan
Miwonša lesson wrote:
čafjan - doctor > čafjanie - doctors


Shouldn't that be čafjanje?

The language looks really cool in general. The symmetry in the case system (with the adverbial and locative cases modifying the others) especially.

What sort of implements/media do you envision being used for the writing system? Seems like it would lend itself well to cuneiform...

_________________
/"e.joU.wV/
faiuwle wrote:
Torco wrote:
yeah, I speak in photosynthetic Spanish
Sounds like it belongs in the linguistics garden next to the germinating nasals.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group