[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4752: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4754: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4755: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4756: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
zompist bboard • View topic - Awesome (Accidental) Diachronics

zompist bboard

THIS IS AN ARCHIVE ONLY - see Ephemera
It is currently Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:37 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 12:09 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:11 pm
Posts: 269
Location: Edinburgh, UK
So I was deriving some words for a language of mine related to High Eolic, and I came along this Proto-Eolic root:

*/nukjang/ 'alcohol, mead, brandy'

In High Eolic, this turns into nuttác, which means 'medicine, treatment'. But for the other language, diachronic progression (through regular sound change) appears to proceed thus:

*/nukjang/ > */nukay/ > nökë > nosé

The problem is, I already have a word nosé in the language, which I just recently tagged as "PE origin - needs PE root"… and the word means 'city'! The solution? Invent a diachronic progression whereby the word is generalized (from alcohol) to "place where alcohol is brewed / stored"… later further generalized to "settlement". So, diachronically speaking, semantic drift leads us to the awesome conclusion that cities in this language are places characterized by, well, loads of alcohol...

Any other awesome accidental diachronic occurences in your languages? Or do you know any similarly noteworthy progressions in natlangs, even?

_________________
(PDF)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 1:21 pm 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:13 pm
Posts: 193
Location: Another place
Wow :D

_________________
At, casteda dus des ometh coisen at tusta o diédem thum čisbugan. Ai, thiosa če sane búem mos sil, ne?
Also, I broke all your metal ropes and used them to feed the cheeseburgers. Yes, today just keeps getting better, doesn't it?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 3:00 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:01 pm
Posts: 387
Location: Hyperborea
Sounds like your conpeeps really like to get drunk. :P

My conlang doesn't have diachronics, but I can think of a few amusing natlang etymologies.

Here's one:
Did you know that the words "bond" and "bondage" are not related? "Bond" is related to "bind" and "band", nothing surprising there. But "bondage" comes from the Old Nordic word "bua", "dwell". A person who dwells in one place rather than running around is of course a "bondi", "farmer". In continental Europe, many farmers were little more than slaves, thus "bondage" basically means "slavery". In the Nordics however the farmers were slightly better off, and so the word instead lead to "husbonde", "master of the house". This is of course the origin of the English words "husband" and "husbandry". So in fact, if you have a bossy wife, she should properly be called the husband. On the other hand, the man is never the wife, because "wife" comes from a word that means "woman" - that's why it's called "midwife", even tho she might not be married. One theory suggests that the word "wife" is actually related to "wrap" (maybe because the Proto-Indo-European women wrapped something around their heads). In that case it is also related to both "whip" and "vibrator". Makes sense.

_________________



Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 5:05 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:49 pm
Posts: 270
There's always the excellent cognate pair of "care" and "whore" (the <w> on the latter is a spelling innovation).

_________________
"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort."
–Herm Albright
Even better than a proto-conlang, it's the *kondn̥ǵʰwéh₂s


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 6:28 pm 
Smeric
Smeric
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 2:57 pm
Posts: 1228
Location: Scattered disc
Most of what I do is backwards diachronics, because I created my languages the "wrong" way by doing the modern languages first with only a very sketchy proto-language. This makes it harder to find cute little stories for etymologies, but I do run across some because many words in the proto-language are short enough that they can appear all over the place. e.g. just by chance the word for apron (saniaipa) turned out to be homophonous with "back" + "tie" .. i.e a "tie" for the back of the body.

Im sure I've done this dozens more times but most of them arent interesting enough even to me to remember, mostly just things like "banana" turning out to be homophonous with "hold in hand" + an old passive morpheme, when that could reasonably apply to any small fruit.

_________________
Sunàqʷa the Sea Lamprey says:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 5:39 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:01 pm
Posts: 387
Location: Hyperborea
Another cutesy anecdote from the real world:
"Security" comes from the Latin expression "sine cura", "without care" (thus also probably related to "whore", altho that connection would apparently be older than Latin). It was a philosophical maxim, much like the famous Swahili expression "hakuna matata". The ancient philosophers figured that since basically the worst that can happen to you is death, and death is nothing, we have nothing to fear.
The catholic church however did not like this, because they wanted you to fear God. So for many centuries "security" was a negative term. It's only in recent centuries that it has returned to something similar to the original meaning.

_________________



Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 7:29 am 
Lebom
Lebom
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2002 7:47 am
Posts: 105


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 8:06 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 4:43 pm
Posts: 707
Location: Three of them
Arguably, one and it also ultimately derive from the same root.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 8:56 am 
Smeric
Smeric
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 2:57 pm
Posts: 1228
Location: Scattered disc
EtymOnline says he's right about it coming from "without care" but not about se- and sine- being the same root. There is a word 'sinecure' by the way.

I dont believe care and cure are cognates. The english word 'care' is native, not a loan from Latin carus "dear, expensive"

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?sea ... hmode=none
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=care

_________________
Sunàqʷa the Sea Lamprey says:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 5:41 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:01 pm
Posts: 387
Location: Hyperborea
Soap: Yes, apparently "care" is Germanic, but maybe they could be related further back? Don't know where I got that impression from, actually...

My source for the "security" anecdote is actually a real live person - gasp! A linguistics professor, in fact. But he could be wrong too, for all I know.

_________________



Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 1:02 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:11 pm
Posts: 269
Location: Edinburgh, UK

_________________
(PDF)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 1:12 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 4:43 pm
Posts: 707
Location: Three of them
Wandering off topic for a bit, I remember once hearing about a posh school here in Scotland where they were planning to name a house after a retired member of staff, who was called Hoare...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 5:25 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:01 pm
Posts: 387
Location: Hyperborea
I had a professor Hoare too. I don't think he had a building named after him, tho.

_________________



Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 4:37 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:23 pm
Posts: 467
Location: Leicestershire
There was briefly a Hugh Jass building in the University of Edinburgh.
*disclaimer: he doesn't exist

Isn't French cher also a cognate of "whore"?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 1:21 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:45 pm
Posts: 362
I just realized that the Eastern Ataenniy character for 'stone' is made up of the characters for 'death' and 'sun'.
I think I'm going to go make up a ton of stories and superstitions about this, especially considering how their sun was destroyed not many centuries ago.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 4:02 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 8:46 am
Posts: 439
Location: Oktoberfestonia

_________________
- Another conlanging/conworlding blog.
Latest post:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 12:59 pm 
Lebom
Lebom
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:28 pm
Posts: 154
Location: Quinnehtkqut
One I just ran across in Haziam:
bhrtis carrying > brtis carrying > vrti burden
wrtoH enclosure > wrtai pen > vrti prison > vrti bondage

I am toying with the idea of having vrti have a general meaning of restriction or barrier.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group