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zompist bboard • View topic - Valence in Trevecian (Ideologies of Class and Valence)

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:48 am 
Avisaru
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UPDATE: Part 3 now available! See below:

Part 1/3:
Part 2/3:
Part 3/3:

On my blog... can't really be bothered to reformat here. As always, feedback welcome, etc.

There will be two more posts in the coming weeks: the next one will focus on more complex valence operations (reflexives, causatives, etc.), and the last one will deal with pragmatic / ideological uses of the valence/class agreement particles (as honorifics, insults, evidentials, etc.)

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Last edited by Cathbad on Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:02 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:51 am 
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I like these, do you mind if I use some parts of it?
I have also just noticed; how would you deal with tetravalents, etc.?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:00 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:45 am 
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UPDATE: Part 2 is now available:

This deals with valence adjusting operations, including a number of causative constructions, and even applicatives and antipassives! (Passives are in there too - they just aren't all that interesting.) Comments and suggestions, again, welcome.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:06 pm 
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Nice, very interesting! Rock on!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:07 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:02 am 
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Part 3 now available! See here:


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:41 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:58 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:02 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:53 pm 
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naw man don't give up
surely there's got to be some way to understand it ... I mean, it's a kind of animacy hierarchy controlling the valence here, and bumping people up or down the language's animacy scale based on social class is pretty easy to imagine a culture doing

EDIT: I think I remember one of Rosenfelder's languages has a feature where you can't have a lower-class nominative acting on a higher-class accusative ...
EDITT: it was and I wasn't really remembering it accurately. whatevs.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:51 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:28 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:23 pm 
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Yeah but you're doing that to yourself
If you can learn noun systems with gender, or bantu style noun classes, or animacy hierarchies, and all the ways that these things interact with other bits in the language to create concords or syntactic fuckery or whatever, then you can learn the same idea when it concerns people
You've set up a Valve in your mind -- that's open to a chair being feminine or a verb being marked differently when its subject is a tree vs when it's an elephant -- but snaps shut when talking to the boss requires a different conjugation
Because it's not "that's a lot to remember"; it's "no I can't (won't) even process that".
Though perhaps it might help if you elaborated a little on the nature of the problem rather than simply making a Broccoli Face at the whole concept

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:47 pm 
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