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 Post subject: Poetry?
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 8:51 pm 
Sanci
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How many here write poetry in their langs?
How about translating existing poetry? I've found this to be a pretty entertaining challenge, since it makes you use pre-defined phrases.

Here are the first two lines of a poem in Kôbogzrak:

I used a repeating syllable pattern instead of rhyming, although I'll only post this much since it's a long poem. The rest worked but it wasn't quite as catchy.

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 Post subject: Re: Poetry?
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:09 pm 
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I am thinking that Terpish poetry will focus on patterns of tone and vowel length (more accurately syllable weight) rather than rhyme schemes like English poetry does. The poem might have a particular melody of high and low tones repeated in each line or stanza or else sequences of short and long syllables. In either case, I imagine this would make the line between poetry and song rather blurry. With some melodic embellishment and instrumental backing, the poem would become a song pretty easily.

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 Post subject: Re: Poetry?
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 3:05 am 
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One of the very reasons I created Xhaimeran in the first place was to use it for poetry, so yes there is a vast supply of poetry and song lyrics in my conlang. I've also translated a lot of material from Swedish poets Dan Andersson & Nils Ferlin.


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 Post subject: Re: Poetry?
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 8:49 am 
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So "zû" marks a directional allative function and infinitives, just as in English?


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 Post subject: Re: Poetry?
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 9:27 am 
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And nebelik means misty? :|


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 Post subject: Re: Poetry?
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 9:43 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Poetry?
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 9:51 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Poetry?
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 9:56 am 
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If you make up the words, and make up their meanings, and make up the syntax, and make up the connotations, and make up all the rules that poetry in that language has to fulfill... what's the point? I can see its use as an artifact to illustrate the language, I suppose, but as an endeavour in itself, there's no challenge to it.

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 Post subject: Re: Poetry?
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 10:08 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Poetry?
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 11:50 am 
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I havent thought much on it but I think my lang would have long/short vowel/consonants working on it instead or perhaps focus on either one


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 Post subject: Re: Poetry?
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 1:38 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Poetry?
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 2:04 pm 
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I should post some Falgwian folk poems called rybeita. The only problem is I can't guarantee the translations since I have trouble parsing them. The syntax is widely different. I've only been studying Falgwian for a few years and that's not enough to have an adequate understand to comprehand a rybeita.

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 Post subject: Re: Poetry?
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 2:26 pm 
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I agree, as long as you don't tailor the language to it and the rules are set before you start your poetry then there is still a challenge. Its like the first people to play most well known games/sports. They made the rules but they were decided before the game was played.

That being said I don't feel any of my conlangs are developed enough yet to write anything approaching poetry. I do know I plan on using Omar Khayyam's rhyme scheme from his Rubaiyat for Haziam.


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 Post subject: Re: Poetry?
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 3:07 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Poetry?
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 6:20 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Poetry?
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 6:56 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Poetry?
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 9:46 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Poetry?
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 1:26 am 
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Probably simple rhyme schemes with alliteration in the interior of the line. Examples in a few months, the languages are still not developed well.

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 Post subject: Re: Poetry?
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 1:39 am 
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South Eresian poetry is pretty freestyle, with some preferences for consistently-placed stress (though this is never absolute) and some strong tendencies towards conceptual repetition. Alliteration occurs in some styles, too. Rhyming is actually considered vulgar, and most poets take care to avoid it. :P

The point of writing poetry in South Eresian is not, actually, for it to be challenging to me; it's supposed to be easy.

I'll post some later, if I remember.

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 Post subject: Re: Poetry?
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 7:00 am 
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Dew and Cath are correct, and I was wrong.

Technically.

However, what they said only applies if you have a completed conlang and then start writing poetry in it. An alien notion to me, this 'completedness' business, so it skipped my mind.

[Even so, I'd say no conlang can ever be as complete as a real language, because even when the words and grammar are set down, the connotations of each word, each syntactical decision, are only filled in by usage - so the poet would have a challenge writing formal poetry, but much of what makes poetry great (ie the finer nuances) would be decided by the poem, rather than being pre-decided. But anyway.]

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 Post subject: Re: Poetry?
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 7:23 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Poetry?
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 2:44 pm 
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All this general talk is fine but what about specifics. What meter are you using? Is your metrical foot based on vowel length, stress, morae? What poetic devices do you use? Why those particular things for your language?

While I agree the rules should be set out before you write the poetry, I do think the language as a whole should be considered when deciding on what kind of meter and poetic devices that are to be used.

For Haziam I have been considering two distinct popular forms, but it is still all in the air until the language gets more developed. In one each line ends in a spondee, something not easy in the present tense. That one is used for religious and reflective poetry. The other ends in a trochee, something very easy in the present and future tenses. A syllable is long is it contains a long vowel, a diphthong, or a short vowel followed by two or more consonants. I am still debating if I should consider a short vowel followed by a liquid a diphthong due to that combination diacrhonically acting similar to diphthongs.

The first form could be considered to have tetrameter, but some rules work on eight feet. It uses three feet of bacchius followed by a spondee. The last word or words are repeated in the second line and the fourth line. There is coda rhyme of the syllables before the repeated word/s. If there are more quatrains the rhyming syllable is based on final syllable of the third line of the previous quatrain. The suggested rhymed from the last quatrain is the same as the rhyme used in the first. Each pair of lines should be able to stand on their own. Older forms had caesura on the fourth syllable.

The second form consists three lines of 2 trochees, a dactyl, and 2 trochees followed by a fourth line of a dactyl and a trochee. There is caesura at the fourth syllable in the first three lines. Assonance and to a lesser degree alliteration are common. There is end rhyme in the pattern AABB. One variation is 3 quatrains with rhyme AABB AACC BBCC.


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 Post subject: Re: Poetry?
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 4:40 pm 
Avisaru
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Poetry in Eastern Aten focuses on rhyme, meter and tone level, sometimes all together.

A thaem is
five characters, Rhyme A
ten characters, Rhyme B
five characters, Rhyme B, and five characters, Rhyme A.
(This form is usually used in humorous poetry.)

A min is 4, 4, 5, and 3 characters to a line, rhyme scheme not required.

Be is tone falling throughout the line; the last line of a min would be High, High Falling, Low.
Beiang only falls at the end; thus the last min line would be High, High, High Falling.

There are words for orders of tone schemes; a min in be, be, be, beiang is a seuylmin, and is popular in depressing poetry. (The tone, when read dramatically, gives a sense of holding out, but finally succumbing on the last line.)

For something bigger, you'd combine the parts; four seuylmins, rhyme form BBBA ABBA ABBA ABBB is a iangseuylmin.

There's a bunch of other specifications I haven't words for yet.


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