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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:14 am 
Avisaru
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I think I have the sound changes and phonology for this down, I'm slooooowly slogging through the verb morphology right now, but working out the future development of the English TAM system is giving me a migraine. This language is spoken in what is now the Midwestern US, including the High Plains, but excluding the eastern Great Lakes and upper Ohio River valley.

Phonology

Mekoshan has a large consonant inventory, including uvular and pharyngealized consonants.

Plosives: /p pʰ t tʰ k kʰ q qʰ qʷ qʷʰ/ ( b p d t g k x q rb rp )
Affricates: /ʦ ʦʰ ʦˤ ʦˤʰ ʧ ʧʰ/ ( ds ts jr cr j c )
Nasals: /m m̥ n n̥/ ( m mh n nh )
Fricatives: /f v s z sˤ zˤ ɮ ʃ ʒ x ɣ χʷ ħ ʕ h/ ( f v s z rs rz lh sh zh kh rf rh r h )
Approximants: /w l j/ ( w l y )

Short Vowels: /a e i o u y ø/ ( a e i o u ü ö )
Long Vowels: /aː eː iː oː uː yː øː/ ( aa ee ii oo uu üü öö )
Diphthongs: /ɑi̯ au̯ ɛi̯ ɔu̯/

Unaspirated plosives are voiced when between vowels or adjacent to voiced consonants.
voiced fricatives are devoiced when adjacent to aspirated plosives and voiceless nasals.
/j/ > [ɰ] when following uvular, pharyngeal, and pharyngealized consonants.

The vowels are affected thusly when adjacent to uvular, pharyngeal, and pharyngealized consonants:
/i iː y yː u uː/ > [ ɪ ɪː ʏ ʏː ʊ ʊː]
/e eː ø øː o oː/ > [ ɛ ɛː œ œː ɔ ɔː]
/a aː/ > [ɑ ɑː]
/ɑi̯ au̯ ɛi̯ ɔu̯/ > [ɑɘ̯ ɑo̯ æɘ̯ ɔʊ̯]

Sound changes from English to Mekoshan


AD 1950-2500

---Flag-Plague Merger---
/æg æŋ/ > /eg eŋ/

---Northern Cities Vowel Shift---
/æ/ > /eə/
/ɑ/ > /a/
/ɜ/ > /ʌ/
/ɛ/ > /ɐ/
/eə/ > /ɛ/

---Retraction of sibilant-rhotic clusters---
/tɹ dɹ / > /ʧɹ ʤɹ/
/stɹ / > /ʃɹ/

Initial and intervocalic /θ ð/ > /t d/
Intervocalic /st zd/ > /s: z:/
Intervocalic /nt nd/ > /n/

/ŋ/ > /n/ in unstressed syllables

---Diphthong shift---
/aɪ/ > /a/
/aʊ ʌ/ > /ɔ/
/ɔɪ/ > /oʏ/

---U-Fronting---
/ju ʃu ʒu ʧu ʤu/ > /y ʃy ʒy ʧy ʤy/

Intervocalic /b/ > /v/
oʏ/ > /ø/

---Rhotic Shift---
/ɹ ɚ ɝ/ > /ʁ/
ʁe ʁo eʁ/ > ʁɛ ʁɔ ɛʁ/
/ʁɪ ʁʊ iʁ uʁ/ > /ʁe ʁo eʁ oʁ/

---Lax Vowel Shift---
/ɪn ɪŋ/ > /ɛn ɛN/
/ʊ/ > /o/
/ɪ/ > /je/

---loss of flapped alveolar consonants---
/ŋ/ disappears, preceding vowels are nasalized
Intervocalic /n/ disappears when preceding an unstressed vowel, preceding vowels are nasalized
Intervocalic /t d/ disappear when preceding an unstressed vowel

AD 2500-3000

Final /ts dz/ > /s z/
/θ ð/ > /h/

---Final Fortis Plosive Lentition---
Final /p t ʧ ʤ k/ > /f h ʃ ʒ x/


/l/ > /ɣ/ when following back vowels
Intervocalic /g/ > /ɣ/
Syllabic /l/ > /u/


/p t ʧ k/ > /pʰ tʰ ʧʰ kʰ/
/b d ʤ g/ > /p t ʧ k/

---Formation of long vowels---
/a.i a.e a.ɛ/ > /ai/
/a.u a.o a.ɔ a.y a.ø/ > /au/
Vowel-hiatus-unstressed vowel > long vowel

Phonemic /ə/ disappears, [ə] becomes epenthic vowel

AD 3000-3500

/ɐ/ > /a/

---Nasal Vowel Simplification---
/ẽ ø̃ õ/ > /ĩ ỹ ũ/
/ɛ̃ ɔ̃/ > /ẽ õ/

---Rhotic Pharyngealization---
/ʁ/ > /ʕ/
/pʕ tʕ ʧʕ kʕ/ > /pˤ tˤ ʧˤ q/
/pʰʕ tʰʕ ʧʰʕ kʰʕ/ >/pˤʰ tˤʰ ʧˤʰ qʰ/
/hm hn hl/ > /m̥ n̥ ɬ/
/sʕ ʃʕ/ > /sˤ/
/zʕ ʒʕ/ > /zˤ/
Syllabic /ʕ/ > /a/

AD 3500-4000

---Loss of Nasal Vowels---
/ã ẽ ĩ ỹ õ ũ/ > /aː eː iː oː uː/

---Mid Vowel Simplification
ye/ > /i/
/yɛ/ > /e/
/wo/ > /u/
/wɔ/ > /o/
/ɛː ɔː/ > /ɛi ɔu/
/ɛ ɔ/ > /e o/

---Cluster Simplification---
/ps ts ks/ > /ʦ/
/pʰs tʰs kʰs/ > /ʦʰ/
/pʃ tʃ kʃ/ > /ʧ/
/pʰʃ tʰʃ kʰʃ/ > /ʧʰ/
/ʧˤ qs qʃ/ > /ʦˤ/
/ʧˤʰ qʰs qʰʃ/ > /ʦˤʰ/

After AD 4000

---Pharyngealized Labials Shift---
/pˤ pˤʰ/ > /qʷ qʷʰ/
/fʕ vʕ/ > /χʷ w/


Last edited by TaylorS on Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:19 am 
Smeric
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TaylorS wrote:
This language is spoken in what is now the Midwestern US, including the High Plains, but excluding the eastern Great Lakes and upper Ohio River valley.


Hmm, why the Midwest of all places?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:03 am 
Avisaru
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Because he wanted it to be there.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:08 am 
Avisaru
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Some examples would be nice. Even if you haven't worked out the specific words and morphology, maybe you could give some preliminary example sentences, to show what it might actually sound like.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:18 am 
Smeric
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Chuma wrote:
Some examples would be nice. Even if you haven't worked out the specific words and morphology, maybe you could give some preliminary example sentences, to show what it might actually sound like.


WHS. But the phonology looks way cool. Rock on!

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:45 am 
Avisaru
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What's time time depth for this? And what's the etymology of the name?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:30 am 
Smeric
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AFAIK [ʁ] is pretty rare among languages (if that's wrong half-knowledge, please tell!). Is there French or German, or heck, Hebrew influence by any chance, that led you to adopt it?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:00 pm 
Sumerul
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Guitarplayer wrote:
AFAIK [ʁ] is pretty rare among languages (if that's wrong half-knowledge, please tell!).

I don't think it's that rare, although I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be mostly an areal thing. (is there a better term for that? there must be) What's very rare, and very European, is for it to pattern as a rhotic, instead of as a fricative/approximant/whatever.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:18 pm 
Avisaru
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Guitarplayer wrote:
AFAIK [ʁ] is pretty rare among languages (if that's wrong half-knowledge, please tell!). Is there French or German, or heck, Hebrew influence by any chance, that led you to adopt it?

For some reason, I don't see it in the consonant inventory. Where is it?

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Kereb wrote:
they are nerdissimus inter nerdes


Oh god, we truly are nerdy. My first instinct was "why didn't he just use sunt and have it all in Latin?".


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:26 pm 
Sumerul
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^
TaylorS wrote:
Sound changes from English to Mekoshan
...
/ɹ ɚ ɝ/ > /ʁ/
...
/ʁ/ > /ʕ/
Lern2read, guys. :P


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:02 pm 
Avisaru
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Something that would make the sound changes a lot more readable here would be to break them up into stages. Also...

Quote:
Phonemic /ə/ disappears, [ə] becomes epenthic vowel
What's the mechanism here? I'd like more explanation.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:27 pm 
Avisaru
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roninbodhisattva wrote:
Something that would make the sound changes a lot more readable here would be to break them up into stages. Also...

Quote:
Phonemic /ə/ disappears, [ə] becomes epenthic vowel
What's the mechanism here? I'd like more explanation.


Also, what's it replaced by? Are you simply saying that it's elided whenever possible, but resurfaces as an epenthetic whenever an illegal cluster would be formed?

Also syllable structure, etc.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:27 pm 
Avisaru
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The time frame is about 2000 years.

Cathbad wrote:
roninbodhisattva wrote:
Something that would make the sound changes a lot more readable here would be to break them up into stages. Also...

Quote:
Phonemic /ə/ disappears, [ə] becomes epenthic vowel
What's the mechanism here? I'd like more explanation.


Also, what's it replaced by? Are you simply saying that it's elided whenever possible, but resurfaces as an epenthetic whenever an illegal cluster would be formed?

Also syllable structure, etc.


Still working on the syllable structure, But a rough outline would be (F)(C)(C)(A)V(C)(C))(F), where F is any fricative and A is any approximant.

With epenthetic /@/ it pops up to prevent germinated word-initial and word-final consonants, which are not allowed, gemmination is only allowed intervocallically.

An example would be d'ton (ACC=town), there would be an /@/ after the accusative clitic (derived from "the").


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:50 pm 
Avisaru
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Cleaning up the sound changes so they are easier to read.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:52 pm 
Avisaru
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Purty cool, I have to say. Looking forward to seeing some words and some morphology.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:14 pm 
Avisaru
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Location: Moorhead, MN, USA
vecfaranti wrote:
Purty cool, I have to say. Looking forward to seeing some words and some morphology.


Thanks, I should have some morphology to show either tonight or this weekend (I'm busy on Friday).


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:34 pm 
Avisaru
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It's much easier to understand the sound changes now. Looking forward to morphology!

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Přemysl wrote:
Kereb wrote:
they are nerdissimus inter nerdes


Oh god, we truly are nerdy. My first instinct was "why didn't he just use sunt and have it all in Latin?".


Languages I speak fluently
English, עברית

Languages I am studying
العربية, 日本語

Conlangs
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:10 pm 
Avisaru
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Here is what I have so far:

Mekoshan is VSO. The English indefinite article has been lost and the definite article has become the accusative marker. The demonstratives function as definite articles when disambiguation is necessary

Nouns

For Noun phrases there are 4 primary case-prepositional clitics that occur at the start of a noun phrase:

Accusative: d- (derived from "the")
Genitive: v- (derived from "of")
Dative: t- (derived from "to")
Benifactive: fa- (derived from "for")

The plural is marked by -s, -z, or by stem change depending on the noun

de-dez (day-days)
wagh-waghz (world-worlds)
stekh-stekhs (stack-stacks)
hos-hoz (house-houses)
keh-kets (cat-cats)

Personal verbal inflection

Mekoshan has polypersonal agreement and marks the subject, direct object, and the indirect object. The placement of the inflections is thus:

S-stem-IO-DO

Note that the Indirect object inflection is derived from the bare dative construction ("he gave me it") and can only be use in ditransitive verbs, otherwise the clitics t-or fa- are used.

here is "you should've given me it" as an example:

üshodgimmii
ü-shod-giv-mi-i
2SG.NOM-MODAL.PFV-give-1SG.DAT-3SG.N.ACC



The odd complexities of the TAM system, as well as person marking in interrogative sentences, later.


Last edited by TaylorS on Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:23 am 
Sanci
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How did "the" stopped being used with nouns in nominative and other case roles? I read sometimes about changes like that (demonstrative/def. article > some case), but I don't know, what can cause them...


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:36 pm 
Avisaru
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golem wrote:
How did "the" stopped being used with nouns in nominative and other case roles? I read sometimes about changes like that (demonstrative/def. article > some case), but I don't know, what can cause them...
I don't know what causes them, either, I just know that it can and does happen.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:37 pm 
Avisaru
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TaylorS wrote:
golem wrote:
How did "the" stopped being used with nouns in nominative and other case roles? I read sometimes about changes like that (demonstrative/def. article > some case), but I don't know, what can cause them...
I don't know what causes them, either, I just know that it can and does happen.


I've read that there's a link between definiteness and objects. And I already notice the beginnings of such a change in English - I often omit 'the' before subjects (e.g. 'food was good', 'whole thing's ridiculous').

Mekoshan looks really cool btw :) I love English futurelanging.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:57 pm 
Avisaru
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Tense, Aspect, Mood

In Mekoshan TAM is highly fusional. Some moods are "defective" for tense and do not distinguish between past and non-past. Action and non-action verbs have different imperfective forms.

The various TAM prefix inflections:

Imperfective of non-action verbs:
Code:
              | Non-Past | Past   |
-----------------------------------
Indicative    | -Ø-      | -wa-   |
-----------------------------------
Future        | -l-               |
-----------------------------------
Conditional   | -d-               |
-----------------------------------
Optative      | -waa-    | -wand- |
-----------------------------------
Obligative    | -gaa-    | -het-  |
-----------------------------------
Permissive    | -me-              |
-----------------------------------
Abilitive     | -ken-    | -kod-  |
-----------------------------------
Intentional   | -gou-    | -zgou  |
-----------------------------------


Imperfective of action verbs:
Code:
              | Non-Past | Past     |
-------------------------------------
Indicative    | -Ø-      | -wa-     |
-------------------------------------
Future        | -bi-                |
-------------------------------------
Conditional   | -dbi-               |
-------------------------------------
Optative      | -waavi-  | -wambi-  |
-------------------------------------
Obligative    | -gaavi-  | -heivi-  |
-------------------------------------
Permissive    | -mevi-              |
-------------------------------------
Abilitive     | -kembi-  | -kobi-   |
-------------------------------------
Intentional   | -gouvi-  | -zgouvi- |
-------------------------------------


Perfective:
Code:
Perfective    | Regular  | Stem-Changing |
------------------------------------------
Indicative    | -v-      | -Ø-           |
------------------------------------------
Future        | -la-     | -l-           |
------------------------------------------
Conditional   | -da-     | -d-           |
------------------------------------------
Optative      | -vaav-   | -vaa-         |
------------------------------------------
Obligative    | -gaav-   | -gaa-         |
------------------------------------------
Permissive    | -mev-    | -me-          |
------------------------------------------
Abilitive     | -koo-    | -koo-         |
------------------------------------------
Intentional   | -goiv-   | -goi-         |
------------------------------------------


"Stem changing" refers to verbs that are supplentive in aspect or have as their perfective form a derivative of an English irregular preterite or past participle form.

Retrospective:
Code:
              | Non-Past | Past       |
---------------------------------------
Indicative    | -ven-    | -dben-     |
---------------------------------------
Future        | -ben                  |
---------------------------------------
Conditional   | -dven-                |
---------------------------------------
Optative      | -vaaven- | -vamben-   |
---------------------------------------
Obligative    | -gaaven- | -heiven-   |
---------------------------------------
Permissive    | -meven-               |
---------------------------------------
Abilitive     | -kooven-              |
---------------------------------------
Intentional   | -gouven-  | -zgouven- |
---------------------------------------


The Imperfective aspect is derived from both the Simple Present and Progressive forms of English verbs, and describes a situation or event with internal structure and is ongoing or habitual.

The Perfective aspect is derived from the English Perfect, Preterite, and the periphrastic "did" Past and describes a situation or event as a single point in time, having no internal structure

The Retrospective aspect is derived from the Progressive Perfect forms of English verbs and functions as the Perfect in Mekoshan (note: Perfect and Perfective are not the same thing).

The Verbal Suffix "-n"

As mentioned above, Mekoshan distinguishes between stative and dynamic verbs in the Imperfective. Dynamic imperfectives also are marked by the suffix -n, derived from the English -ing present particle ending. Some verbs, mostly supplentive verbs along with the copular verb, but also some other verbs, can be ether stative or dynamic depending on if they have the suffix or not.

An example using the supplentive verb -hev, "have/get":

Imperfective Non-Past
aahevi "I have it"
aahevni "I am getting it"

Perfective
aagahi "I had it"
aagahni "I got it"

The stative and dynamic forms for the copula, which are highly irregular, are similar to the ser-estar distinction in Spanish, essential versus temporary states

šez deh bö god "that boy is a good person"
hibin deh bö god "that boy is behaving"


Last edited by TaylorS on Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:43 am 
Avisaru
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Kewl. I wants samplez.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:15 pm 
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This is awesome! I look forward to more.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:27 pm 
Avisaru
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Here is a TC that shows syntax, non-polar questions, and relative clauses:

Who says my poems are poems?
My poems are not poems.
When you know that my poems are not poems,
Then we can speak of poetry.


Husedeh derm ma poomz d'poomz?
Dernm ma poomz d'poomz.
Wan ünodeh dernm ma poomz d'poomz,
Dan wikembisbikhi v'poochre.


[ˈhusedeh tɛʕm ma pʰoːmz tpʰoːmz
tɛʕnm̩ ma pʰoːmz tpʰoːmz
wan ˈynodeh tɛʕnm̩ ma pʰoːmz tpʰoːmz
tan ˈwikʰembispiçi ˈfpʰɔːʦˤʰɛ]

hu-Ø-se-deh der-m ma poom-z d=poom-z
der-n-m ma poom-z d=poom-z
wan ü-Ø-no-deh der-n-m ma poom-z d=poom-z
dan wi-kembi-sbikh-i v=poochre.

Q.NOM-IMPFV-say-REL.ACC be.3PL.NOM.IMPFV-3PL.ACC my poem-PL ACC=poem-PL
be.3PL.NOM.IMPFV-NEG-3PL.ACC my poem-PL ACC=poem-PL
when 2SG.NOM-IMPFV-know-NEG-REL.ACC be.3PL.NOM.IMPFV-3PL.ACC my poem-PL ACC=poem-PL
then 1PL.NOM-ABILITIVE.IMPFV-speak-3SG.N.ACC GEN=poetry


Note the VSO word order and the marking of questions and of relative clauses on the verb.


Last edited by TaylorS on Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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