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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:17 am 
Avisaru
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Mashmakhan wrote:
BTW, has anyone here considered palm wine?

My conpeople get their children drunk on that.

Oh, regarding the original topic: how about a species of migratory birds on the island? They show up at one time of year, giant hunt, dried bird meat for the rest of the year! /badidea

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:21 am 
Sanno
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From a professional point of view, all edible creatures that come out of the sea can be divided into two groups: fish and shellfish. If it's got fins, it's a fish. Otherwise it's shellfish. So, to a chef, octopuses, lobsters, crabs, clams, mussels, geoducks, squid, cuttlefish, sea cucumbers etc are all shellfish. Conversely, shark is a fish.

(I'm not sure where whales fit in with all of this. Civilised people don't eat whales.)

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:00 pm 
Lebom
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Dewrad wrote:
Civilised people don't eat whales.

Whale and dolphin are both eaten in Japan as well as in Iceland and (I think) Norway. Technically, it is also eaten in the U.S.A.; indigenous people in Alaska still reserve the right to hunt whale legally. As do the Chukchee in Siberia, which is a part of Russia.

Whether it is legal or not is beside the point, unless you want to get subjective about it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:08 pm 
Sumerul
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Mashmakhan wrote:
Dewrad wrote:
Civilised people don't eat whales.

Whale and dolphin are both eaten in Japan as well as in Iceland and (I think) Norway. Technically, it is also eaten in the U.S.A.; indigenous people in Alaska still reserve the right to hunt whale legally. As do the Chukchee in Siberia, which is a part of Russia.

Whether it is legal or not is beside the point, unless you want to get subjective about it.

What on earth do you think the implication was if not that? Besides, the main point is it's not something he's ever come across in his life.

My understanding of shellfish comes from the background of never having really had a desire to eat any, I guess, and never having worked in food. I probably should eat some – I want to find out what they taste like, now that it's been brought to my attention. You're sparking the desire. But that might be why my understanding of something with the word 'fish' in it doesn't include things which to me are obviously not fish, like crabs and lobsters.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:51 pm 
Avisaru
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finlay wrote:
Torco wrote:
TomHChappell wrote:
Torco wrote:
As for food, island people will naturally eat fish and shellfish.

Fixed.


what's the semantic range of shellfish, btw? does it include, say, starfish? crabs? octopi?

No, because they either a) don't have a shell or b) demonstrably aren't fish (eg crabs) because they have legs


You're joking on (b), right? Shellfish has nothing to do with resembling a fish.

Mashmakhan wrote:
Strictly speaking, shellfish include aquatic molluscs and crustaceans exclusively. Sea slugs being one exception because they are gastropods without shells, and octopi are an exception because - for the most part - extant cephalopods do not have shells. The nautilus is an exception to the exception :mrgreen:

BTW, has anyone here considered palm wine?


Pretty much agree here.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:09 pm 
Sanno
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Mashmakhan wrote:
Dewrad wrote:
Civilised people don't eat whales.

Whale and dolphin are both eaten in Japan as well as in Iceland and (I think) Norway. Technically, it is also eaten in the U.S.A.; indigenous people in Alaska still reserve the right to hunt whale legally. As do the Chukchee in Siberia, which is a part of Russia.
Would you like me to underline the snark in red for you next time?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:56 pm 
Avisaru
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People, people, please. Can we please just agree that "shellfish" means bivalves and crustaceans? It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:20 pm 
Lebom
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finlay wrote:
Mashmakhan wrote:
Dewrad wrote:
Civilised people don't eat whales.

Whale and dolphin are both eaten in Japan as well as in Iceland and (I think) Norway. Technically, it is also eaten in the U.S.A.; indigenous people in Alaska still reserve the right to hunt whale legally. As do the Chukchee in Siberia, which is a part of Russia.

Whether it is legal or not is beside the point, unless you want to get subjective about it.

What on earth do you think the implication was if not that?

So right of [being the first to live there] doesn't mean anything? Pretty much any colonial or otherwise new-found government probably needs to take this into account if it doesn't want a revolt internally (no matter how small it might be) and tight scrutiny internationally. I mean, after all, what would be more uncivilized? Hunting animals according to ancestral tradition, or suppression of whole groups of people due to differences in agreement or morality?

...I'll leave that up to you to decide.

finlay wrote:
Besides, the main point is it's not something he's ever come across in his life.

And that makes it uncivilized? ...again, I'll leave that up to you to decide.

Dewrad wrote:
Mashmakhan wrote:
Dewrad wrote:
Civilised people don't eat whales.

Whale and dolphin are both eaten in Japan as well as in Iceland and (I think) Norway. Technically, it is also eaten in the U.S.A.; indigenous people in Alaska still reserve the right to hunt whale legally. As do the Chukchee in Siberia, which is a part of Russia.
Would you like me to underline the snark in red for you next time?

No, thank you, I can read it just fine :roll:


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:42 pm 
Sanci
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Mashmakhan wrote:
finlay wrote:
Mashmakhan wrote:
Dewrad wrote:
Civilised people don't eat whales.

Whale and dolphin are both eaten in Japan as well as in Iceland and (I think) Norway. Technically, it is also eaten in the U.S.A.; indigenous people in Alaska still reserve the right to hunt whale legally. As do the Chukchee in Siberia, which is a part of Russia.

Whether it is legal or not is beside the point, unless you want to get subjective about it.

What on earth do you think the implication was if not that?

So right of [being the first to live there] doesn't mean anything? Pretty much any colonial or otherwise new-found government probably needs to take this into account if it doesn't want a revolt internally (no matter how small it might be) and tight scrutiny internationally. I mean, after all, what would be more uncivilized? Hunting animals according to ancestral tradition, or suppression of whole groups of people due to differences in agreement or morality?

...I'll leave that up to you to decide.

finlay wrote:
Besides, the main point is it's not something he's ever come across in his life.

And that makes it uncivilized? ...again, I'll leave that up to you to decide.

Dewrad wrote:
Mashmakhan wrote:
Dewrad wrote:
Civilised people don't eat whales.

Whale and dolphin are both eaten in Japan as well as in Iceland and (I think) Norway. Technically, it is also eaten in the U.S.A.; indigenous people in Alaska still reserve the right to hunt whale legally. As do the Chukchee in Siberia, which is a part of Russia.
Would you like me to underline the snark in red for you next time?

No, thank you, I can read it just fine :roll:


This little sidetrack has just made me remember something. My conculture, the Xorfavoi, do not hunt dolphins, as they view dolphins as being related to humans, and that the killing dolphins for food is morally equivalent to the killing humans for food. Dolphins, offal (organ meat and blood), and the flesh of large land predators are all forbidden foods in their culture. Otherwise, they'll eat anything that won't kill them.

Btw, here are the coordinates laying out the general area where the islands are located:
38 degrees north, 25 degrees west
29 degrees north, 25 degrees west
29 degrees north, 29 degrees west
38 degrees north, 29 degrees west

Thus if one draws a line going WNW from the Canary Islands, a line WSW from the Strait of Gibraltar, and a line due south of the Azores, the intersection would be where Eciora Xorfaste would be located. I like a lot of the ideas presented, so far. A lot of them I was already thinking about, but wasn't too sure.

brandrinn wrote:
Laurels tend to have large pitts. Avocadoes are a famous example, but there are many others. Typically these pits are very bitter and inedible. But you can invent any Lauraceae species you like and they would fit in just fine as long as you're careful to study the existing plants. Edible laurel nuts would provide some nutrients. More likely, though, they will just grow cereals. Why not? They certainly have some contact with the mainland, otherwise how did they get there at all?

Also, the Atlantic islands are pretty dry at sea level anyway. It's mostly in the mountains that you have laurel forests. So expect plenty of oak, grass, sedge, and other stuff like that.


Sorry that I did not see your post. The ancestors of my conpeople came to the island c 3500-1500 BCE, so it might be quite possible they might have brought along some cereal crops, however, givenst the distance and the speed and sturdiness of ocean going vessels at the time, AFAIK, I cannot imagine them having much real contact with the mainland. The idea of edible laurel nuts might show some promise, as I have contemplated a previous group who arrived sometime around the early Neolithic era whose descendants assimilated with the later group, with the resulting culture representing a syncretism between the two groups.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:12 pm 
Lebom
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Most of those Atlantic islands have rodents that have undergone island gigantism, and similar species like giant hutias were an important source of meat in the Caribbean. It might be an important source of meat besides seafood and migratory birds (they won't have smoked puffins, but possibly other birds).

Laurels are commonly used in cooking: avocado, bay laurel, cinnamon, and camphor are all laurels. Persea indica is related to the avocado Persea americana, but has a smaller, inedible fruit. It seems like the islands have pine forests though...perhaps some sort of pine nuts?

It seems like the Guanches used sheep and goats, though, and cultivated cereals.

EDIT
It looks like taro is an invasive species.

Faya is a native edible drupe. It's not food, but the dragon tree, related to cinnabar, is a really interesting plant.

The Canaries also produced insect-based dyes such as Kermes and cochineal.


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