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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:04 am 
Sanci
Sanci

Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:10 am
Posts: 15
I've just been rereading the Bé Belief Systems page, and was wondering if I could get clarification on a few points :)

First, in The Deeds of Pàn, I notice in this excerpt...

Quote:
Four of the idols (Ìsu, Lín, Łas, Jíŋ) are acquired by stealth or tricks; two (Ŋòŋ and Tɔ̀) are rescued from the elcarin trash heap; one is purchased (Dlɛ́s); and one (Sáemàe) escapes on her own and joins them; the remaining four (Dlɛ́s, Kâ, Ŋisú, Lǔ) have to be fought for, among the múrtani.


...it mentions Dlɛ́s twice, and omits Sɔn, so I am guessing one of the Dlɛ́s mentions is supposed to be Sɔn.

How do age cohorts in institutions work? Are they strictly defined, or is it more of a relative thing. How big are these age cohorts... about equivalent in years to a whole generation, or how to they determine that? What is the cut off? And do you join an age cohort based on when you join the institution, or based on your birth age?

While the page mentions adultery a number of times, I am wondering, how harshly condemned has it been? Would it be more along the line of social disapproval, or is it something that actually gets legislated against?
(For that matter, would relations between two men who married into the same band be considered licit, while relations between men in separate bands would be technically adultery, or is that not framed the same way?)

Is adoption conceptualized as a form of marriage (jɔhù)?

The lexicon mention "trɛ̌słó," defined as "the Attainment or individualistic school." I remember this having been mentioned on the almeopedia as well, but it doesn't look like it's there anymore. Is this no longer a thing?

Thanks! :-D


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:56 pm 
Boardlord
Boardlord

Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 8:26 pm
Posts: 3376
Location: In the den
Gah. Stupid board ate my post. This may be briefer than it would have been.

Good catch on the gods, I'll fix that.

Institutional bands can be pretty large-- up to 150 people or so. That works for a nunnery, a gang, a school, etc. Larger institutions like armies are divided into multiple bands.

Adultery is far less condemned than under pariarchy. After all, the women know, obviously, who their children are. There is no cult of virginity. The state would not be likely to be involved. Very rarely, a straying man could be sent back to his mother's band; usually, penance and increased vigilance would be enough.

Sex between men isn't adultery; the women, if they care at all, would consider it playing around.

Adoption between bands is a form of marriage, yes.

Trɛ̌słó turned out not to be relevant to the religion page. It'll probably show up some day as a minor school or philosophy.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:12 pm 
Sanci
Sanci

Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:10 am
Posts: 15
Thanks for the answers :-D though too bad about the board problems :(

zompist wrote:
Institutional bands can be pretty large-- up to 150 people or so. That works for a nunnery, a gang, a school, etc. Larger institutions like armies are divided into multiple bands.


This is interesting! The thing I was most wondering about was the age cohorts... or age consorts; the page uses both terms. As seen here:

Quote:
The command hierarchy is the age hierarchy: each age consort can give orders to those below. It was even licit to sleep with other members, so long as they were in your own age consort.


and here:

Quote:
Sex outside the jɔ (indeed, outside your age cohort) was adultery… if your jɔ was an all-female temple or nunnery, the only licit sex was lesbian


So I'm wondering how these age consorts/cohorts are defined.

zompist wrote:
Adultery is far less condemned than under pariarchy. After all, the women know, obviously, who their children are. There is no cult of virginity. The state would not be likely to be involved. Very rarely, a straying man could be sent back to his mother's band; usually, penance and increased vigilance would be enough.


I see; this makes sense. How do the institutional bands feel about adultery, then, like if a member is crossing age lines, or if someone becomes pregnant who isn't supposed to?

zompist wrote:
Sex between men isn't adultery; the women, if they care at all, would consider it playing around.


Ah. I'd wonder if men who are lovers ever seek entry into the same jɔ... not that they'd usually be the ones arranging such matters, but I could easily imagine it motivating a request :-D

For that matter, do you ever see bands accepting more men to be husbands than the number of women they have (say, a woman just really wants a lot of consorts...) or would that be pretty odd?

zompist wrote:
Trɛ̌słó turned out not to be relevant to the religion page. It'll probably show up some day as a minor school or philosophy.


I suppose there must be a huge variety of those compared to what you could fit in!


Last edited by TSSL on Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:27 pm 
Boardlord
Boardlord

Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 8:26 pm
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Location: In the den
TSSL wrote:
So I'm wondering how these age consorts/cohorts are defined.


Depends on the institution and its size. Ordinary families have cohorts by generation, but a large institution will have a smaller age range. If the cohort is getting large and there's been a lull in recruitment, that's the ideal time to have the next batch form a new cohort.

Quote:
How do the institutional bands feel about adultery, then, like if a member is crossing age lines, or if someone becomes pregnant who isn't supposed to?


It's hard, in a sense, to get caught for adultery. As there are almost always multiple men in a cohort, a woman can always point to one of them as the father. If somone is both blatant and unrepentant, they could get punished or kicked out.

Quote:
For that matter, do you ever see bands accepting more men to be husbands than the number of women they have (say, a woman just really wants a lot of consorts...) or would that be pretty odd?


Pretty odd. At the family level it's usually not possible, and the major institutions are usually single-sex.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:40 am 
Sanci
Sanci

Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:10 am
Posts: 15
zompist wrote:
Depends on the institution and its size. Ordinary families have cohorts by generation, but a large institution will have a smaller age range. If the cohort is getting large and there's been a lull in recruitment, that's the ideal time to have the next batch form a new cohort.


Thanks, this makes sense! So was that "about 150" figure in reference to age cohorts in a band, or the band across age cohorts?

zompist wrote:
It's hard, in a sense, to get caught for adultery. As there are almost always multiple men in a cohort, a woman can always point to one of them as the father. If somone is both blatant and unrepentant, they could get punished or kicked out.


What happens in cases where a woman is in an all-female institution but gets pregnant?

A couple new things, as I've been reading further...

Most simply, a little error:

Quote:
They did not perhaps exceed 10,000 residents, but that extraordinary density in a land where the average settlement was a few dozen people.


I think this should be "that is extraordinary density."

How do family names work? It mentions that "husbands join the wife’s family and take her name" and we have examples of dynasty names, like Tràŋ and Lé itself, but the name section in the Lé grammar just talks about personal names. Do family names apply at the jɔ level (or do they keep the same name when splitting, or how?)? Is it just a rich person thing or does everyone have one? And how do you grammatically state someone's full name?

Just a little clarification, but in the rationalists' list of sins by animal, where it says "The bat is unfaithful," does that mean relationship infidelity, being religiously unfaithful, being disloyal, or what sense of the word?
And "the fish is perverse"... what is taboo?

I should also note that I really love the flavor of the quotations. I especially enjoy the contrast where "This must have provoked answers or rebukes." Great stuff :-D
I enjoy the system of elements, too... I enjoy systemizations even if they have nothing to do with reality. Maybe even more, then :P

Basically, the Bé and Xengiman are my favorites of the Almean cultures :)


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