Piro tan, ke ei im or?nan...

NakedCelt · Post by **NakedCelt** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:25 am

Just thought of something I did years ago when I first discovered Almea (and long before I started calling myself "Naked Celt").

Aurora Rossa · Post by **Aurora Rossa** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:15 pm

Interesting.

insumaro · Post by **insumaro** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:22 pm

I took a look at the other ones. The Our Father in Ebonics...hahaha.

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:32 pm

I also noted the Kazakh version with interest--it's taken from a Russian-published Gospel edition of 1901, and the translation is distinctly different from a modern version (1994) that I own, as is the orthography used--it's a Cyrillic transcription that I've never seen before, with several differences from the current one (instituted under Stalin c. 1936).

p@,
Glenn

Aidan · Post by **Aidan** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 2:32 am

Pentekonter wrote:I took a look at the other ones. The Our Father in Ebonics...hahaha.

I don't know, I find that kind of stupid and offensive. Between listing Ebonics as a constructed language, and performing an over the top parody of it. Ick, somebody needs to have their cultural assumptions washed out with soap.

Mecislau · Post by **Mecislau** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 6:08 am

Glenn Kempf wrote:I also noted the Kazakh version with interest--it's taken from a Russian-published Gospel edition of 1901, and the translation is distinctly different from a modern version (1994) that I own, as is the orthography used--it's a Cyrillic transcription that I've never seen before, with several differences from the current one (instituted under Stalin c. 1936).

p@,
Glenn

I thought Kazakh used the Latin script before the 1940s.

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 8:15 am

Maknas wrote:
Glenn Kempf wrote:I also noted the Kazakh version with interest--it's taken from a Russian-published Gospel edition of 1901, and the translation is distinctly different from a modern version (1994) that I own, as is the orthography used--it's a Cyrillic transcription that I've never seen before, with several differences from the current one (instituted under Stalin c. 1936).

p@,
Glenn
I thought Kazakh used the Latin script before the 1940s.

There were several stages involved. The first known Kazakh writings, from the 19th century and before, are in the Arabic script; later, in 1928, as the link notes, the Latin script was instituted, and in 1940, Cyrillic. (I had thought off the top of my head that the institution of Cyrillic took place in 1936, the year the Kazakh SSR was formed; evidently I remembered incorrectly.

)

The link NakedCelt provided, however, clearly shows a different Cyrillic script being used in 1901, well before the Latin. The orthography is not the same as the current Cyrillic script used for Kazakh, and somewhat different means are used for representing the language's non-Russian sounds. The book cited was a publication of the Russian Orthodox Church, and the writing system seems to have been created specifically for Orthodox missionary endeavours; at the time, knowledge of Russian (including Cyrillic) and Russian-language education had already begun to spread among the Kazakhs--at least the elite--and the Church evidently felt that a Cyrillic script would be understood.

That's why I found it so fascinating; I've studied a bit of Kazakh, and never seen this system before.

p@,
Glenn

EDIT: I apologize, however, for highjacking what ought to be an Almea thread;
carry on.

I would be interested in learning more about Eledhat (the Almean blend of Arashism and Christianity), and about how the Verdurians interpret the Judeo-Christian tradition and the tales connected to it. I've already said that I think the arrival of the Elenikoi in Avela and their participation in the rebellion against Kebri would make for a fascinating novel...

Nikolai(lazy) · Post by **Nikolai(lazy)** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 10:22 am

I've made mention of it before, but I'm still curious to know the Elenikoi's side of the story, the realisation of their folly and their ability to handle it. Obviously, some of them might have went a little berserk at the thought, others maybe ambitious...

NakedCelt · Post by **NakedCelt** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 10:06 pm

I was just thinking, though... we could add a lot more to Pater Noster's list, couldn't we?

insumaro · Post by **insumaro** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:08 pm

Aidan wrote:I don't know, I find that kind of stupid and offensive. Between listing Ebonics as a constructed language, and performing an over the top parody of it. Ick, somebody needs to have their cultural assumptions washed out with soap.

Meh, i dont find it offensive. (Then again, i'm white) I think that it was there purely for humor, and wasnt meant to offend anybody. If it was depicting black people as stupid or inferior then i wouldnt like it. But that is how a lot of black people talk, so i dont think that there's anything wrong with joking about it. It's not like we're making fun of someone cruelly. I personally think that we should throw political correctness out the window, or at least the overuse of it. It's like "visually challenged." Why euphemize? The word is "blind;" it's not derogatory. Why not use it?

Of course, Ebonics is not a conlang, but it should probably go under a Miscellaneous category.

NakedCelt · Post by **NakedCelt** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 2:02 am

Pentekonter wrote:I personally think that we should throw political correctness out the window, or at least the overuse of it. It's like "visually challenged." Why euphemize? The word is "blind;" it's not derogatory. Why not use it?

I have expressed my opinion on "political correctness" elsewhere, but Kaz Cooke says it better than I can.

jburke · Post by **jburke** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 2:59 am

Aidan wrote:
Pentekonter wrote:I took a look at the other ones. The Our Father in Ebonics...hahaha.
I don't know, I find that kind of stupid and offensive. Between listing Ebonics as a constructed language, and performing an over the top parody of it. Ick, somebody needs to have their cultural assumptions washed out with soap.

I've heard every expression in that translation actually used, but I highly doubt you'd ever hear them all together that way. It stinks of a parody.

- · Post by - » Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:43 am

Pentekonter wrote:
Aidan wrote:I don't know, I find that kind of stupid and offensive. Between listing Ebonics as a constructed language, and performing an over the top parody of it. Ick, somebody needs to have their cultural assumptions washed out with soap.
Meh, i dont find it offensive. (Then again, i'm white) I think that it was there purely for humor,

I cordially refer you to John Scalzi's very useful hints for white people -- he puts it quite succinctly. The salient part:

If there are any white people out there reading this right now . . . let me give you a little piece of advice: Ethnic minorities in the United States are still strangely unconvinced that you don't yet see them primarily as a cheap and disposable way to make railroads or pick agricultural products out from the ground. This tends to make them a little touchy when you josh around about their ethnic characteristics. Yes, yes, I know, they make jokes about themselves all the time, and you didn't have them make a railroad or pluck lettuce. You don't have a racist bone in your pale, easily-burned body. It's a shame the crimes of a hateful few have been visited upon you. But there it is.

Anytime you think that enough time has passed to allow you to be able to whip up some innocent ethnic-tinged humor, here's a handy mathematical formula, just to be sure:

1. Take the number of years the ethnic group in question was abused/enslaved/pushed off land/discriminated against/provided smallpox-covered blankets/made to work illegally for pennies a day by white folk here in the US. This is your number X.

2. Take the number of years members of the ethnic group in question have been able to join a private country club in Georgia. This is your number Y.

3. Divide X by Y.

If the resulting number is greater than one, you will probably be [stunned] when your gentle ethnic ribbing is taken with something less than a graceful chuckle by those folks who are in that particular ethnic group. It's probably best that you keep your wryly amusing idea to yourself.