The Count of Years

Post by **zompist** » Mon Dec 02, 2002 4:31 am

You can preview the first chapter of the Count of Years now.

(I'll be adding links to it tomorrow. I plan to post a chapter a week or so.)

Aidan · Post by **Aidan** » Mon Dec 02, 2002 3:44 pm

Neat!

I really like Ecaias' strategy of sowing death as disruption into the world long in advance of his fears. He's crafty

. Not, that is, I like his strategy, I like the idea, the story of it.

I also really like that community and cooperation come after evil. Without evil, there is no true good.

The anachronistic feel of I?inos' line to Amnās is fun: "Till I judge otherwise, you are confined to Almea; try to use the time to grasp my Idea."

You know, right, that there are some names in here that, in this context, immediately call Tolkien to mind? I don't criticize this, but I did want to make sure you were aware of it:

Einalandauē: the spirits
Ainulindal?: the music of the spirits

Similgu, Simillu, and Simiriu: The three stars of the Southern Crown
The Silmarils, the three celestial lights, that at one time adorned Morgoth's iron crown.

And a couple of less immediate ones: Ye?, who made willows; Yavanna whose province is plants; I?inos, called Unbegotten; Iarwain Benadar, where Benadar means "Fatherless".

One typo that I caught.
3rd paragraph of I?inos' Judgement:
"speed abd prudence in the use of their claws"

So Haleza Grise · Post by **So Haleza Grise** » Mon Dec 02, 2002 5:38 pm

Quite interesting: what interests me most is the mode of expression. It definitely isn't biblical in tone, but at the same time, it's not quite equivalent to the translations of oral cosmological stories from nomadic peoples around the world, which always have quite an appealing repetitive, simple structure, with minimal flourish, yet evocative language.

I really think it does have its own distinct style; what sets it apart from an oral recount is principally its use of big words

. It goes off on tangents quite a bit, which of course, you would expect as the authors dwell on various different aspects of creation before moving on.

It also seems to have quite an ordered, regular quality to it, reflective of an agricultural state: each spirit has its own star, and its own house, and within the animal world all the animals clearly definined capabliities and roles

And the idea of evil as growing both in strength and intensity is a good one.

One striking similarity to Tolkien's theology is the planned nature of the progression of time; the Music has almost everything accounted for, and everything arises out of something else, for a reason (usually one known only to the One, but still a reason). Iainos seems to know exactly what's going on, but does not reveal it.

Ran · Post by **Ran** » Mon Dec 02, 2002 7:12 pm

Seems to me that during uesti prehistory, an enormous galactic event occured that resulted in massive bloating of the galaxy, one bright star collapsing onto itself, major tectonic changes in Almea, and the capturing of a few planetoids as moons.

Also... I can't seem to load the r-haceks, both majuscule and minuscule. I checked the source - seems that you've omitted the ";".

Damn... I can just see the historical atlas all over again - a small, fanatic group of people slavishly checking the same website, again and again, for updates...

Jaaaaaa · Post by **Jaaaaaa** » Mon Dec 02, 2002 7:23 pm

thatswhat I do for your historicsal atlas, ran...

eodrakken · Post by **eodrakken** » Mon Dec 02, 2002 11:58 pm

I'm enjoying the Cir?ma so far. I have to admit, the previously posted descriptions of Almean religions didn't do much for me; I'm a very "show-don't-tell" kind of person. Hearing from the Cuzeians themselves makes it come alive. The concept of I?inos' "dream" is particularly evocative -- it gives a sense that the universe is all in God's mind, dependent on his continuing consciousness. Whereas when I read Genesis, I feel like the world could go on without God's constant attention. The contrast is interesting.

ranskaldan wrote:Seems to me that during uesti prehistory, an enormous galactic event occured that resulted in massive bloating of the galaxy, one bright star collapsing onto itself, major tectonic changes in Almea, and the capturing of a few planetoids as moons. ;)

Heh, you almost asked my question. I was going to ask if Nōtuvoras went supernova, an event which would have had quite an impact on the ilii.

I'm having a bit of trouble with the Unicode. Everything's okay except that the d-circumflex and the t-circumflex look like d' and t', and the r-haceks just show their numerical codes. I'm running Windows 98. Any advice?

[Edited to fix awkward syntax.]

Post by **zompist** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 2:22 am

On the Unicode... the r-hacheks needed the semicolon, thanks. Weirdly, my browser can correctly interpret the Unicode without the semicolon... sometimes.

For dh and th, I picked characters from the Unicode 2.0 book; they appear as d' and t' on my Mac, too. The sketch of Czech in The World's Major Languages suggests a reason: :dh is seen in handwriting and on typewriters, but it's d' when typeset. Odd.

I'm aware of some of the Tolkienian names; they date back to the first version of the Cir?ma, a fairly horrible thing I wrote in college. I think the remaining sections move even further away from this.

I like the rationalistic explanation of the Almean sky!

As for I?inos knowing what he's doing... the later theologians would certainly agree. I tried to write without this assumption, however. I?inos is said to be surprised at the report of Eca?as's rebellion. I think this fits a very early epic; later on, Knowers would probably insist on omniscience.

Aidan · Post by **Aidan** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 2:58 am

zompist wrote:I like the rationalistic explanation of the Almean sky!

Hmm, I'm not sure I do, entirely. I don't think that something like that had to have actually happened, for the story to exist as it does. And it seems highly unlikely that such a extreme dis-aster (

) would have left any witnesses to tell about it, and quite possibly would have utterly shifted the habitability of Almea. Sorry to be a spoilsport, but don't you think?

zompist wrote:As for I?inos knowing what he's doing... the later theologians would certainly agree. I tried to write without this assumption, however. I?inos is said to be surprised at the report of Eca?as's rebellion. I think this fits a very early epic; later on, Knowers would probably insist on omniscience.

Yeah, I actually liked the non-omniscience feel. He's got a plan, but he's not omniscient and the plan is not infallible. On the other hand, he is good at improvising

.

eodrakken · Post by **eodrakken** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 4:05 am

zompist wrote:As for I?inos knowing what he's doing... the later theologians would certainly agree. I tried to write without this assumption, however. I?inos is said to be surprised at the report of Eca?as's rebellion. I think this fits a very early epic; later on, Knowers would probably insist on omniscience.

It didn't seem to me like he's exactly omniscient in this part. More like he's having a semi-lucid dream, so that things he doesn't want do happen, but he has partial control and knows on some level that it's all part of himself.

Raphael · Post by **Raphael** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 7:55 am

Well done- writing something that looks how a religious text might actually look like in real life sure isn't easy for ordinary people, and you've managed it.

I just think I find the description of how everything was harmony in the beginning kinda cynical- "Back then, there was no evil in the world, because everyone joyfully accepted it when something happened that we would call bad."

Post by **zompist** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 1:50 pm

Raphael wrote:I just think I find the description of how everything was harmony in the beginning kinda cynical- "Back then, there was no evil in the world, because everyone joyfully accepted it when something happened that we would call bad."

Well, I'm a little cynical... at least, too much so to be able to swallow vegetarian lions cohabitating with fearless lambs, even in Paradise.

Drydic · Post by **Drydic** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 4:09 am

Does anyone know why, when I print anything off from IE or Netscape, the ā, etc. (but not the Greek and Cyrillic) show up as blank spaces (and the t', d' show up as t<space>, d<space>)?
This is VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY annoying! Now that Zomp has posted something in Unicode, I have no excuse to take it offline and edit it before printing it off! GAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

Aidan · Post by **Aidan** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 4:22 pm

Drydic_guy wrote:Does anyone know why, when I print anything off from IE or Netscape, the ā, etc. (but not the Greek and Cyrillic) show up as blank spaces (and the t', d' show up as t<space>, d<space>)?

Well, the simple answer is that you're printer doesn't know those unicode glyphs.

It's not a very useful answer, though. I can't tell you how to fix the problem. Lack of Unicode support is a mjor frustration to me as well, and I haven't figured out the best ways to work with it yet. Sorry.

Drydic · Post by **Drydic** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 2:12 am

Well, that would be a neat explanation, except that the printer does them fine when I print the files from Word(pad). Well, guess it's one of those things that Micro$oft won't fix.

Jaaaaaa · Post by **Jaaaaaa** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 10:42 pm

micro$oft be evil, ne?

Aidan · Post by **Aidan** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 10:53 pm

Jaaaaaa wrote:micro$oft be evil, ne?

Every once in awhile, I think, "Oh it's just the band wagon/just american iconclasm, to call microsoft evil". But then I remember, no they really are. What they've done with the way IE handles various things, for example, is either evil, or incredible incompetence.

My brother often says, "Well, but IE is non-standard. You just don't bother making things work for it anymore." And his associates quickly try to hush him, before potential customers appear.

But at least I don't have to worry about e-mail viruses. With all those users of Outlook out there who are such easy targets, who would bother to try and hit me?

Now, Office. Office does have it's good points. If only they'd stick to what they do well.

Jaaaaaa · Post by **Jaaaaaa** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 10:54 pm

When you said IE at first methoughtyou meant Indo-European XD

Aidan · Post by **Aidan** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 11:11 pm

Jaaaaaa wrote:When you said IE at first methoughtyou meant Indo-European XD

He-heh!

I forgot I was posting on a linguistics board, when I used that abbreviaton. That does bring some interesting new interpretations, doesn't?

jburke · Post by **jburke** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 1:20 am

Similgu, Simillu, and Simiriu: The three stars of the Southern Crown
The Silmarils, the three celestial lights, that at one time adorned Morgoth's iron crown.

Not sure where you get the notion that the Silmarils were "three celestial lights." ("Three celestial lights" is a famous phrase found in the Rig Vega, which I doubt was much influence on Tolkien.) One Silmaril wound up on Earendil's brow in the sky; but another was thrown into the sea and another into a chasm. In what sense were they celestial generally?

jburke · Post by **jburke** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 1:34 am

I just think I find the description of how everything was harmony in the beginning kinda cynical- "Back then, there was no evil in the world, because everyone joyfully accepted it when something happened that we would call bad."

Well, I for one liked that part: the badness of a given thing
often lies in the perception of it. My mother, e.g., is not the best at handling a crisis because, during one, she can't stop the doom-thoughts long enough to reason things out and see a solution. That's just the way she is. I'm the opposite: it takes a literal catacylsm to really shake me up.
Bad things for her are HORRIBLE; whereas for me, they're just obstacles in my way to be overcome or accepted.

Raphael · Post by **Raphael** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 6:35 am

jburke wrote:
I just think I find the description of how everything was harmony in the beginning kinda cynical- "Back then, there was no evil in the world, because everyone joyfully accepted it when something happened that we would call bad."
Well, I for one liked that part: the badness of a given thing
often lies in the perception of it. My mother, e.g., is not the best at handling a crisis because, during one, she can't stop the doom-thoughts long enough to reason things out and see a solution. That's just the way she is. I'm the opposite: it takes a literal catacylsm to really shake me up.
Bad things for her are HORRIBLE; whereas for me, they're just obstacles in my way to be overcome or accepted.

But are you sure that you will also have that attitude towards death?

Good point, though; can it be that mothers are all equal?

Post by **zompist** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 2:54 am

Next chapter's up...

Drydic · Post by **Drydic** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 4:28 am

The 'Giantish' wasn't inspired by Entish, was it? The general description sounds very similar. It seems that your reality has a more direct opposition of Giants : Ogres, while Tolkien has Ents : (some trolls), Dragons.

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 8:12 am

I found the second section of the Count of Years more intriguing than the first; Part 1 was a little too straightforward, and a little too Tolkienian, for me. The story of Mavordaguendu and Ecr?setomurgo in Part 2, on the other hand, reminds me a little of the friendship of Gilgamesh and Enkidu in the Tale of Gilgamesh. (the conversation between Soxāeco and Bōexurgō was also cute: a little comic relief?)

One question, however:

At the end of the twenty days, Mavordaguendu was satisfied, and he left to wander Almea. After only a day, however, he heard a loud crying sound, and recognized the voice of his friend. He rushed back to where he had left Ecr?setomurgo, and found him trapped under a mighty fall of rock, which had come down from a mountain and buried him.

He began to dig, and in a day and a night he had uncovered Mavordaguendu. He bound his wounds, gave him water to drink, and laid him in a soft meadow to recover.

Did Mavordaguendu dig out Ecr?setomurgo, or the other way around? (The former, it would appear.)

p@,
Glenn

butsuri · Post by **butsuri** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 10:28 am

There's something my browser dislikes about the second page. It's displaying the whole thing in an obnoxious all-caps font, which resembles the display on one of those flat-panel displays from the later Star Trek series, or maybe the credits to Battlestar Galactica.

This is a bug is my browser, which it exhibits every so often - I've never told it to use that font for anything - but can you see anything different between the HTML of the two pages? The first displays normally, as do the comment pages (except for the heading "The Giants", which is in the same font as the second page (as a heading it's less intrusive)).

... Actually, I think it has something to do with the name of the font, which has the word "times" in it. But is there a reason why the second page is in a particular font, and the first isn't?