Almea wiki

[Paladin]

hallo there long time no see (yes i have been here before)

recently I became a fan of wikipedia.. I found out that there is some almean stuff there as well, but generally it is not of high acclaim: personal creations that don't belong to the global culture, don't have a position there

So i thought making a wiki system for the whole almea history. There is no encyclopedia (namelist), nor a timeline of almea here, so I thought that, since we have so many free hours to spend, why not contribute to an ecnyclopedia, just for ourselves?

this will also make easy to incorporate knowledge deduced from that forum, either from our theories or Marks' revelations

just an idea to throw down, and hope it will be met with reactions

[zompist]

I've thought about making a wiki for Almea myself, as a way of accessing and organizing some of the miscellaneous information I have (or will have later).

At this point I'd rather not have anyone else set up one-- I appreciate people's interest, but this isn't a shared universe a la Star Trek; it's a very personal creation.

If I set up something, however, there will be ways for other people to help out if they choose. Something like how Cecil Adams has the Straight Dope Advisory Board.

[Paladin]

I think I was not clear. All I meant was a wiki ENCYCLOPEDIA, not a development project for 'expanding the universe'

the encyclopedia would be used only for entering information ALREADY registered from you or your site. This would also help contributors learn better (for example I contribute to the Star Wars wiki, even in topics I was not very ecquainted before)

[Raphael]

Well, arguably, something like that already exists, allthough not as a Wiki- Mark's own Almea pages. Since all stuff known to the public that is in any way part of the Almea canon is already in a few closely connected places on the Web, I don't see what would be the point in having one place to bring it together.

What might make some sense would be a kind of index wich, for every somehow Almea-related term, would list links to all those Almean pages that contain information about it. But I guess creating something like that would be very tedious.

[zompist]

I understand what you were suggesting, Paladin; I'm saying I'd rather set up such a thing myself, so it's under my control (like this board) and so I can use it for providing additional material.

[Paladin]

Well, arguably, something like that already exists, allthough not as a Wiki- Mark's own Almea pages. Since all stuff known to the public that is in any way part of the Almea canon is already in a few closely connected places on the Web, I don't see what would be the point in having one place to bring it together.

Well, that sounds like 'since we have Google and can find everything on-line, why ever having wikipedia.org?'... the reason is of course, concentration and presentability.. for example, there are several html pages in Metaverse talking about Almea, and there are hints about the planet here and there... I'd rather to have an article separated in sections like "astronomy", "geography", "climate", "history"

what if i want to know what an Isel?aku is? a dictionary would explain but only a part of it.. what if i'd like something more 'encyclopedic'?

Anyway, too bad that there is no such mood about it. I hope Mark will make some index in the future

[Rory]

Well, that sounds like 'since we have Google and can find everything on-line, why ever having wikipedia.org?'...

Not quite, as Wikipedia uses non-online sources, whereas all the stuff on Almea is available online. But I do see your point, I often find it hard to find Almea stuff on Zomp's site.

[Drydic]

Pally, what you should do is look up the terms that form Isel?aku in the dictionary, and find out for yourself what they mean.

FWIW, it's something like 'primordial substance'

[Xeon]

I partially agree with you, Paladin. I think a Wikipedia-like setup would be a more effective means of presenting Almea, but if this were to happen, Mark should be the one to set it up, and the only one to edit it.

[ghur]

If Mark would be the only one to edit it, then it seems like a wiki would be kind of useless, since a wiki's major advantage is that anyone can edit it.

[Glenn]

But I do see your point, I often find it hard to find Almea stuff on Zomp's site.

Personally, I have little trouble finding things on Mark's site, although I suspect that this is due more to long familiarity than anything else--after joining the old board, I'd read every (then existing) page of Virtual Verduria by the time the ZBB was created.

p@,
Glenn

[Mecislau]

If Mark would be the only one to edit it, then it seems like a wiki would be kind of useless, since a wiki's major advantage is that anyone can edit it.

Well, a simple database utility like a wiki would be convenient. I've often run into a similar problem on my site - I get lots of interesting ideas that I'd like to implement, but they wouldn't deserve a page by themselves on my site. A wiki (or other database) would solve this problem nicely.

[Curlyjimsam]

If Mark would be the only one to edit it, then it seems like a wiki would be kind of useless, since a wiki's major advantage is that anyone can edit it.

Well, a simple database utility like a wiki would be convenient. I've often run into a similar problem on my site - I get lots of interesting ideas that I'd like to implement, but they wouldn't deserve a page by themselves on my site. A wiki (or other database) would solve this problem nicely.

Yeah, I feel like this. Many sites offer password-protected wikis -Schtuff.com is one of the best, I think, and the one I use - and I find it a lot easier to put stuff onto my Alternate Solar System Wiki there than to do the same on the 'proper' A.S.S. site. But it's still very much individual ... no one else can edit anything unless they hack into my account.

[Dewrad]

If Mark would be the only one to edit it, then it seems like a wiki would be kind of useless, since a wiki's major advantage is that anyone can edit it.

Rubbish. A wiki's major advantage is that you can update pages near-instantly without fannying around with html. Using a wiki does not mean that you have to have collaborators- for an example see either here or here.

[Paladin]

I see the discussion is still alive and not everyone is con-wiki idea

AS for whether Mark would be the absolute and sole writer, I don't think so. Other participants would help to concentrate elements that Mark has overlooked, and contribute to the general layout.

For example Mark would write everything on Almea's geography in the Almea article (I know that Mark is not that silly, but it's an example). A number of users that don't like this layout can agree together and create a different article called Geography of Almea. Mark would forget adding birth and death dates of persons, or consider it a time consuming and unnecessary detail to add, but someone would sometime like to see them and a volunteer could always try to start the task

Mark will be of course the absolute authority on WHAT is written and distinguish facts from false information

[krinnen]

Mark will be of course the absolute authority on WHAT is written and distinguish facts from false information

And he would have to read every article to see if it's correct... But you forget that he's a human being, with a job and a family

EDIT: and also that Almea is HIS baby and if he wants to keep it to himself, so be it.

I'm just happy that he puts it on the web and I can read it.

[Cockroach]

If Mark would be the only one to edit it, then it seems like a wiki would be kind of useless, since a wiki's major advantage is that anyone can edit it.

Rubbish. A wiki's major advantage is that you can update pages near-instantly without fannying around with html. Using a wiki does not mean that you have to have collaborators- for an example see either here or here.

Wiki without open source are like fish without gills.

True, you don't need collaborators, but blocking them completely out is in my own humble opinion, quite half assed.

[Cockroach]

This post is a mistake. Please ignore.

[So Haleza Grise]

This post is a mistake. Please ignore.

Unfortunately , if you hadn't posted that reply, you would have been able to delete it.

[IJzeren Jan]

If Mark would be the only one to edit it, then it seems like a wiki would be kind of useless, since a wiki's major advantage is that anyone can edit it.

Rubbish. A wiki's major advantage is that you can update pages near-instantly without fannying around with html. Using a wiki does not mean that you have to have collaborators- for an example see either here or here.

All true. Dan and I both have quite some experience with wikis; not only the Wikipedia in various languages, but also our very own Ill Bethisad wiki. I agree that it has numerous advantages: it's extremely easy to use, and you basically can access it from any computer with Internet connection. You can make notes, upload anything you want, and turn it into a huge databank.

For the IB project, it is extremely convenient: the project has over 40 participants; anything that has been contributed by anyone can easily be found in the wiki (as far as it has been wikified, of course). Therefore it constitutes an excellent repository of information.

But there is one major disadvantage: it will never look really nice. No matter what background colour you use, and no matter what pictures you upload, a wiki will always be, an look like, a wiki. It will never match the superior presentation of Mark's Almea pages. In the context of IB I am very happy with our wiki, but I would feel sorry if it would ever replace the various websites that form part of the project (including Dan's masterpiece).

Even for a purely encyclopedic work, nothing can beat well-written HTML. Look for example at http://dictionary.ebbs.net/. It's more work, granted, but then at least you've really got something!

Jan

[Paladin]

Mark will be of course the absolute authority on WHAT is written and distinguish facts from false information

And he would have to read every article to see if it's correct... But you forget that he's a human being, with a job and a family.

No I don't... wikis are not depended on ONE "guardian"... Star Wars wiki works fine although Lucas is not contributing there, and Mark will participate to the wiki as much as he wishes (and it still would be better to know that Mark participates Almea wiki once per year, while Lucas isn't participating in SW wiki at all!).

Anyway, I don't think that an Almea wiki would have much need of protection against fan fiction and apocryphal elements, unlike Star Wars.

Mark can replace some of the time he spends writing his personal notes, uploading or updating his pages, with time spent on the Almea wiki, and then directly copy and paste texts to his metaverse

Even for a purely encyclopedic work, nothing can beat well-written HTML. Look for example at http://dictionary.ebbs.net/. It's more work, granted, but then at least you've really got something!

I have no reason to disagree, however V.V. is not an encyclopedia, but a drilldown

Nobody said that the wiki would replace V.V. It would be a companion, a reference, and why not, cooperative to it

[chris_notts]

Anyway, I don't think that an Almea wiki would have that much a need of protection against fan fiction and apocryphal elements, unlike Star Wars.

Depends whether Eddy can edit the posts or not....

[Aurora Rossa]

Don't worry. Although a Terra Pvlchra/Verduria crossover would be cool, I will restrain myself at the wiki. Actually, I probably wouldn't have much of a reason to visit it much, no offense.

[krinnen]

Mark will be of course the absolute authority on WHAT is written and distinguish facts from false information

And he would have to read every article to see if it's correct... But you forget that he's a human being, with a job and a family.

No I don't... wikis are not depended on ONE "guardian"... Star Wars wiki works fine although Lucas is not contributing there, and Mark will participate to the wiki as much as he wishes (and it still would be better to know that Mark participates Almea wiki once per year, while Lucas isn't participating in SW wiki at all!).

Anyway, I don't think that an Almea wiki would have much need of protection against fan fiction and apocryphal elements, unlike Star Wars.

Mark can replace some of the time he spends writing his personal notes, uploading or updating his pages, with time spent on the Almea wiki, and then directly copy and paste texts to his metaverse

One fact still remains: Mark does not want anybody to touch his project; it's his, and his is also the decision to disclose information at the pace he wants, and also decision of what look he wants it to have...

It's not that i'm against it, in fact I would love an almea wiki...

[So Haleza Grise]

As per Krinnen, I think there's a bit of an issue in that we're viewing this wiki as an opportunity to make Almea a collaborative project when it really isn't. There are ways we can participate in and appreciate Almea without needing to "supplement" it.