Old Skourene
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- N'guny
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Old Skourene
I was reading through the Old Skourene page and saw that most of its nouns are derived from verbs. Algonquian or Iroquoian influence there, Zomp?
"On that island lies the flesh and bone of the Great Charging Bear, for as long as the grass grows and water runs," he said. "Where his spirit dwells, no one can say."
More of a jsburkean influence, really. 
But I did borrow a lot from my Nishnaabemwin grammar. Usually not directly, though there are a couple of lexical borrowings; I'd see how Nishnaabemwin did something, and borrow or adapt it, if I could.
The Western languages are still intended to be polysynthetic, as well as a major family in Arc?l.
But I did borrow a lot from my Nishnaabemwin grammar. Usually not directly, though there are a couple of lexical borrowings; I'd see how Nishnaabemwin did something, and borrow or adapt it, if I could. The Western languages are still intended to be polysynthetic, as well as a major family in Arc?l.
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vohpenonomae
- N'guny
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More of a jsburkean influence, really.
Nice to see I've had an influence on Almea.
Nishnaabemwin is one of those truly weird Algonquian dialects; one change from PA to it was, I believe, loss of every other short vowel.
"On that island lies the flesh and bone of the Great Charging Bear, for as long as the grass grows and water runs," he said. "Where his spirit dwells, no one can say."
Yes, that's one of my favorite sound changes, because of the havoc it plays. The book's at home, so I can't give an example, but the rule applies to each inflected form-- meaning that different forms of a word lose different vowels.jsburke wrote:Nishnaabemwin is one of those truly weird Algonquian dialects; one change from PA to it was, I believe, loss of every other short vowel.
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vohpenonomae
- N'guny
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Leading, of course, to the widespread allomorphy that Algonquian languages are famous for.zompist wrote: The book's at home, so I can't give an example, but the rule applies to each inflected form-- meaning that different forms of a word lose different vowels.
At one point, I had the change apply on the road from PCM>Qapakwonaq; it led to some impressive consonant clusters and syllabic consonants. But I decided that the change played a little too much havoc: I wanted Qapakwonaq to better retain the general style and feel of its ancestor than Hlholamelo did, and so I jettisoned the change in favor of some less catastrophic vowel loss (like loss of a short or mid-length vowel between a nasal and a consonant cluster, after which the nasal becomes syllabic).Yes, that's one of my favorite sound changes, because of the havoc it plays.
"On that island lies the flesh and bone of the Great Charging Bear, for as long as the grass grows and water runs," he said. "Where his spirit dwells, no one can say."
The effect is similar, but it doesn't affect just one vowel, but any short vowel. It's easiest to see what's going on by comparing Nishnaabemwin with its neighbor, Minnesota Ojibwe, which lacks this sound change.hwhatting wrote:Does this work like the loss of weak yers in Slavic?
Cf. OCS ot?c?, gen. ot?ca vs. Russian otec, gen. otca?
N. mkiznan 'shoes'
MO. makizinan
N. mkizin 'shoe'
MO. makizin
N. nmakzin 'my shoe'
MO. nimakizin
The basic rule is: omit every other short vowel, starting with the first; leave long vowels alone, and also the final vowel in the word. (There are also some rules that modify some of the consonant clusters created by this change.)
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vohpenonomae
- N'guny
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Yeah; according to Don Frantz, every other short vowel in that Ojibwe dialect was reduced, then ultimately dropped; IIRC, he points to vowel reduction in other dialects as evidence.zompist wrote:The effect is similar, but it doesn't affect just one vowel, but any short vowel.
Oftentimes, stress (or lack thereof) plays a role in this kind of vowel loss; but in this case, I don't think it did (we don't have a good picture of PA's stress system anyway, so even if it did, we probably wouldn't know it; at base, we know stress was tied to vowel-length, and that a short vowel couldn't be stressed).
"On that island lies the flesh and bone of the Great Charging Bear, for as long as the grass grows and water runs," he said. "Where his spirit dwells, no one can say."
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Dark Elf
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is Nishnaabemwin closely related to Ojibwe? they seem to have a lot of simularities as in inanimate transive verb, animate transive verb, etc. and the orthography is uncanningly close to each others. Im only familiar with Michigan Ojibwe, is there a difference between Minnesota Ojibwe and Michigan Ojibwe?
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vohpenonomae
- N'guny
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- Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 4:23 am
Nishnaabemwin is a dialect of Ojibwe; Ojibwe has a number of them, as do most Algonquian languages. And all of the Algonquian languages work on the same verb paradigms--animate transitive, inanimate intransitive, etc.; that comes from their ancient ancestor, Proto-Algonquian.Azeroth wrote:is Nishnaabemwin closely related to Ojibwe? they seem to have a lot of simularities as in inanimate transive verb, animate transive verb, etc. and the orthography is uncanningly close to each others. Im only familiar with Michigan Ojibwe, is there a difference between Minnesota Ojibwe and Michigan Ojibwe?
"On that island lies the flesh and bone of the Great Charging Bear, for as long as the grass grows and water runs," he said. "Where his spirit dwells, no one can say."