The Count of Years

Post by **zompist** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 8:04 pm

Aidan wrote:If anyone's interested in the anthropology terms, this is technically ambilineal; so called for fairly obvious reasons.

I didn't know the term, so thanks. Others might find thisexplanation of different descent strategies with diagrams useful.

(I figured that this model would fit the practical and not very sex-differentiated elcari, btw.)

Aidan · Post by **Aidan** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 5:21 pm

zompist wrote:
Aidan wrote:If anyone's interested in the anthropology terms, this is technically ambilineal; so called for fairly obvious reasons.
I didn't know the term, so thanks. Others might find thisexplanation of different descent strategies with diagrams useful.

I second the endorsement. In fact, I would have linked to that exact page in my original post if I'd had more time at that moment. It's a really good intro to kinship terms.

Post by **zompist** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 12:09 am

Chapter 6 is up.

By the way, we're not yet halfway through. The later chapters get longer.

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 12:33 am

And considerably more detailed, I see. The story of ?rrasos and Denūra was interesting (Adam and Eve as an arranged marriage!

); their quest and eventual reconciliation and love is, of course, an archetypical tale (still appearing on book pages and movie screens throughout our society).

p@,
Glenn

Raphael · Post by **Raphael** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 9:41 am

Mark, what's up with your server? It seems to be down, so that I can't read chapter six.

PS: Ok, I have access to it now. But at the time when I posted this first, I just couldn't get through.

Post by **zompist** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 12:30 pm

I don't know, but I can get at it fine now.

Edit: Some other friends were having trouble; and our own network here at work had some glitches today. Maybe it's just a bad day for the net.

Iscun · Post by **Iscun** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 5:22 pm

Ah! You even added a nice map this time! Anything is better with a map!

Now the only thinking kind left without a creation myth is the Flaids, but I'm sure their creation won't be as long. I don't really understand the sudden appearance of Flaids in the historical atlas (really, where were they before?). Have they ever done anything of importance, ever? Not that I don't like them, it's just that they seem to just sit there on their little island and not do much. I'm guessing their society has been the same ever since they (quite suddenly) appeared on Flora.

EDIT: Ah, two thinking kinds with no creation yet, actually. Forgot about the Ic?lani...

Post by **zompist** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 5:57 pm

Iscun wrote:Now the only thinking kind left without a creation myth is the Flaids, but I'm sure their creation won't be as long. I don't really understand the sudden appearance of Flaids in the historical atlas (really, where were they before?). Have they ever done anything of importance, ever? Not that I don't like them, it's just that they seem to just sit there on their little island and not do much. I'm guessing their society has been the same ever since they (quite suddenly) appeared on Flora.

I'm sorry to say that the Count of Years doesn't talk about the flaids. The Cuzeians were never much for the sea-- indeed, they never even had a seacoast-- so they didn't have any direct contact.

They're admittedly not a very dramatic people. Curiously, I've found myself in the last week or so working on Flaidish. So that may lead to more information about them.

Aidan · Post by **Aidan** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 7:36 pm

zompist wrote:They're admittedly not a very dramatic people. Curiously, I've found myself in the last week or so working on Flaidish. So that may lead to more information about them.

This reminds me, I've been meaning to ask. Do you have any historical information up on how first contacts between kinds progressed, and I've just missed it? Sorry if I'm asking something that's in an obvious place and I'm just being dense.

Or if you don't; do you have any ideas? It's something I've been thinking about for my histories recently, and I just don't feel like I have enough information yet to do it well, so I'd love to hear anything you've come up with.

Post by **zompist** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 7:48 pm

Aidan wrote:This reminds me, I've been meaning to ask. Do you have any historical information up on how first contacts between kinds progressed, and I've just missed it? Sorry if I'm asking something that's in an obvious place and I'm just being dense.

Or if you don't; do you have any ideas? It's something I've been thinking about for my histories recently, and I just don't feel like I have enough information yet to do it well, so I'd love to hear anything you've come up with.

For Almea, actual first contact would have been in the mythological past, so about all we have is (presumably fictionalized) encounters like those described in the Count of Years. In historical times, there being other intelligent races is just one of those things that "everybody knows".

On an individual level, of course, a person or a group can have their own first contact. It's fair to say that it starts out with a good deal of gaping and naive questions. One's first glimpse of an iliu or ktuvok is memorable for anyone...

I think first encounters would normally be extremely touchy. Humans don't do so well with meeting even new human groups-- as witness (say) European debates over whether the Amerindians had souls. Almeans can be cosmopolitan about it precisely because it's ancient (pre)history to them... also because, biologically, Almean humans are less suited to the habitats that other species prefer. Terrestrial humans probably would have crowded out the elcari, at least.

So Haleza Grise · Post by **So Haleza Grise** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 12:37 am

I really like it all so far

(sorry that I can't get more specific . . . my thoughts are in disorder.)

I was going to try to render the spider riddle in Elkaril, but I'm not up to it. Anyone else feel like a challenge?

Oh, and zomp, you realised you've described the Four Great Fathers as having beards? Was this something befitting of their magnificence? Or perhaps a Cuezian anthropocentrism?

Post by **zompist** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 2:50 am

So Haleza Grise wrote:Oh, and zomp, you realised you've described the Four Great Fathers as having beards? Was this something befitting of their magnificence? Or perhaps a Cuezian anthropocentrism?

A little of both.

I assume you're referring to the statement that the elcari don't have much hair? From the picture, however, you can see that elcari can have some facial hair.

A proper epic could hardly say that the Great Fathers had a straggly little bit of fuzz. The elcari describe them as having beards in their own fashion; Cuzeian illustrations showed them as having something bushier, more patriarchal.

Raphael · Post by **Raphael** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 10:47 am

Chapter six is excellent storytelling! And you say plots don't come easily to you...

I actually like this more than the Silmarillion. I have to work myself through the Silmarillion, and I still haven't gotten very far, but I just glide through the Count of Years.

Neek · Post by **Neek** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 7:27 pm

Count of Years, Chapter 1 wrote:We know this, because Ulōne told it to the Einalandauē, and they told it to the iliū, and the iliū told it to our ancestors.

Confer, "I know this, beacuse Tyler knows this[/i], Fight Club (by Chuck Palahniuk).

And yea, this is way better than most religious texts. I like the historian feel, the fact that the original authors were reporting something as aposed to telling a story. It gives it a natural, definite feel (and it isn't so preechy). But it also has elements of mythological fables, such as earthquakes and magma flows being caused by Eca?as locked in his earthly prison, which adds to the authentic feel.

Post by **zompist** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 6:49 pm

Chapter 7 is now up.

So Haleza Grise · Post by **So Haleza Grise** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 8:47 pm

Nikolai wrote: And yea, this is way better than most religious texts.

Yea, verily, it is . . .

The cataclismic wars seem to fit into everything else nicely.

Obviously, the ilian records of this event will be very interesting. . .

Do all Erelaean cultures have stories about the times before the fall? Or do their tales begin with the great wars? I suppose we'll find out in due course.

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 9:53 pm

Mark: I found one typo in Part 7, I think:

"...and the nations of men because even more numerous."

Should that be "...became even more numerous"?

The first words of Līxigōcas also jumped out at me, mostly because the ending is so unexpectedly colloquial:

--O brothers, said Līxigōcas, you are all kings of men, after the iliū, after the elcari, right?

p@,
Glenn

Post by **zompist** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 12:51 am

Thanks for finding the typo, Glenn.

And Haleza, the Count of Years is the best human record of the ancient wars... the others are either much more fragmentary, or much less believable. Elcarin records will have more, but I haven't deciphered any yet. And Eteod?ole... I'm hoping that auxiliary brains become available in my lifetime, so that I have a hope of learning it...

Ihano · Post by **Ihano** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 9:55 pm

I may be repeating myself, but I remain quite impressed with the Count of Years as it's progressing. One enjoyable aspect is that it's definitely a work of literature as well as being a religious text... not just agglomerated creation, lineages, ordinances, and wars, but a fairly unified work with true plots, drawn from (I assume) traditional tales, but amplified by a real historical storyteller who took emotions and personalities into account. Perhaps one could make a comparison with the Odyssey?

Keep on truckin'!

Iscun · Post by **Iscun** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 10:46 pm

I'm curious as to how similar Quarau monotheism is to the Cuzeian religion, since contact with the Ilii started them both.

Post by **zompist** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 1:10 am

Iscun wrote:I'm curious as to how similar Quarau monotheism is to the Cuzeian religion, since contact with the Ilii started them both.

Me too.

It may have to wait till I have more spiritual insight, though...

Shm Jay · Post by **Shm Jay** » Sat Jan 18, 2003 11:28 am

I?m surprised that there are enough natural resources left after the long civilizations and wars of the Elder Races that the humans can build any sort of civilization that uses metals.

Jaaaaaa · Post by **Jaaaaaa** » Sat Jan 18, 2003 11:48 am

The subcreation thing soundsa lot like what Tolkien said. Not that thatsa bad thing.

Post by **zompist** » Sat Jan 18, 2003 1:37 pm

Shm Jay wrote:I?m surprised that there are enough natural resources left after the long civilizations and wars of the Elder Races that the humans can build any sort of civilization that uses metals.

Civilization doesn't destroy metal, it just moves it around! Oil and coal could be a problem, though. But we don't really know how sophisticated human civilization got, or how much of Almea's non-renewable resources it ran through. The Verdurians and others will find out in a few centuries.

Post by **zompist** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:03 am

Chapter 8 is up.